What does the cancellation reason "due to a planning error" mean?

[Ryry]

Few northern services between Darlington and Saltburn and Newcastle and Nunthorpe cancelled today according to realtime trains due to a planning error. But what does this mean

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Few northern services between Darlington and Saltburn and Newcastle and Nunthorpe cancelled today according to realtime trains due to a planning error. But what does this mean

I’ve encountered this before, it was a rostering error so that train crew were not allocated to the service I needed to catch.

Not saying this is the case with your instance, but that’s the sort of thing it might be.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Few northern services between Darlington and Saltburn and Newcastle and Nunthorpe cancelled today according to realtime trains due to a planning error. But what does this mean

No Conductor rostered

 

[muz379]

Could be a crew or unit diagramming error - IE no unit or crew booked to work services

Or a rostering error - nobody rostered to cover a crew diagram , or someone rostered without required route or traction knowledge.

 

[jon0844]

Planning errors can also include trying to run a train when there's (known) engineering work that prevents it completing its journey, and potentially leaving a train out of position etc.

This can sometimes happen very late at night or early mornings where there's a possession in place. Sometimes that possession can overrun which then causes more issues, but that will have a different reason attributed to it.

 

[74A]

You would have thought by 2024 the rostering system would automatically flag up when a train is in the system but does not have a driver and/or guard.

Another failure of privatisation. Using old systems which aren't up to the job but no one wants to spend the money on a new one.

 

[Dr Hoo]

You would have thought by 2024 the rostering system would automatically flag up when a train is in the system but does not have a driver and/or guard.

Another failure of privatisation. Using old systems which aren't up to the job but no one wants to spend the money on a new one.

Are (nationalised) Northern still using BR systems and software for rostering?

 

[Vexed]

Few northern services between Darlington and Saltburn and Newcastle and Nunthorpe cancelled today according to realtime trains due to a planning error. But what does this mean

If Realtime Trains shows the codes after their reason as TG, TH, or TI it's a crew problem. I've had a brief look and yesterday's were TI.

RTT use different wording to the wording in the Delay Attribution Guide.

Delay Attribution Guide - Open Rail Data Wiki

 

[BrummieBobby]

RTT use different wording to the wording in the Delay Attribution Guide.

Delay Attribution Guide - Open Rail Data Wiki

It will never cease to amuse me that the code for an ill passenger is VD...

 

[Wyrleybart]

You would have thought by 2024 the rostering system would automatically flag up when a train is in the system but does not have a driver and/or guard.

Another failure of privatisation. Using old systems which aren't up to the job but no one wants to spend the money on a new one.

That is a matter for debate. There was an industry system called Crewplan developed by an IT company in Darlington. I started using it in the late 1990s and it worked reasonably well and used the "F keys" for commands. A new windows happy Crewplan was created known as GUI Crewplan and this took a while to become reliable but I still use in 2024.

Then the same company created a whole new resource managing system called Integrale and this is frankly anything up to a nightmare to use. We were told years ago it would replace Crewplan, but it hasn't. Rather the company in Darlington split and part went to one company and part to the other, so we still have Crewplan and Integrale, one to roster and one to manage. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, the sharing of data from Integrale to Crewplan is not very prompt, but let me give you an example.

Joe Bloggs is a driver for Bizzrail and is rostered 1000-2000 on Tuesday. He needs 12 hours between turns of duty so cannot book on until 0800 Wednesday. But this is fine because Joe's Wedneasday job books on at 0900. Unfortunately, on Tuesday afternoon there is a line blockage and Joe is marooned at XXX and ends up having to have a taxi back to his home depot and doesn't book off until 2225. This means Joe has breached Hidden 18 by being on duty more than 12 hours, and has also missed his 0900 turn on Wednesday because he cannot now book on until 1025 (12 hours rest).

This is a snapshot of how Integrale should feed Tuesday's data in, in order to update on future days in Crewplan, but in reality Wednesday and Thursday's data will already have been fixed and transferred into Integrale. I am sure different TOCs and FOCs use different systems for rostering and managing.

 

[Class 170101]

That is a matter for debate. There was an industry system called Crewplan developed by an IT company in Darlington. I started using it in the late 1990s and it worked reasonably well and used the "F keys" for commands. A new windows happy Crewplan was created known as GUI Crewplan and this took a while to become reliable but I still use in 2024.

Then the same company created a whole new resource managing system called Integrale and this is frankly anything up to a nightmare to use. We were told years ago it would replace Crewplan, but it hasn't. Rather the company in Darlington split and part went to one company and part to the other, so we still have Crewplan and Integrale, one to roster and one to manage. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, the sharing of data from Integrale to Crewplan is not very prompt, but let me give you an example.

Joe Bloggs is a driver for Bizzrail and is rostered 1000-2000 on Tuesday. He needs 12 hours between turns of duty so cannot book on until 0800 Wednesday. But this is fine because Joe's Wedneasday job books on at 0900. Unfortunately, on Tuesday afternoon there is a line blockage and Joe is marooned at XXX and ends up having to have a taxi back to his home depot and doesn't book off until 2225. This means Joe has breached Hidden 18 by being on duty more than 12 hours, and has also missed his 0900 turn on Wednesday because he cannot now book on until 1025 (12 hours rest).

This is a snapshot of how Integrale should feed Tuesday's data in, in order to update on future days in Crewplan, but in reality Wednesday and Thursday's data will already have been fixed and transferred into Integrale. I am sure different TOCs and FOCs use different systems for rostering and managing.

I would suggest your example isn't a roster error unless the line blockage was known about by Train Planning weeks or months in advance and then either wasn't accounted for, so train planning error, or the roster clerk failed to notice the amended diagram supplied for that turn in which case it is roster error. An on the day / late notice blockage would need to be managed by Duty Train Crew Managers (DTMs) in control on the night / day.

 

[officewalla]

You would have thought by 2024 the rostering system would automatically flag up when a train is in the system but does not have a driver and/or guard.

Another failure of privatisation. Using old systems which aren't up to the job but no one wants to spend the money on a new one.

Or reluctance to move with the times perhaps?

 

[dk1]

Traincrew rostering at my TOC has constantly evolved since I did it in the 90s. Lots was invested in ‘WorkPlace’ during the 2000s and that has now been superseded by ‘Dimensions’ since the pandemic.

 

[Horizon22]

You would have thought by 2024 the rostering system would automatically flag up when a train is in the system but does not have a driver and/or guard.

Another failure of privatisation. Using old systems which aren't up to the job but no one wants to spend the money on a new one.

It generally does, but still needs human intervention to check the on-the-day allocations and ensure that things are either a) covered or b) cancelled outright.

A planning error suggests something more to do with fleet or trying to run a train through a possession. If it was crew it would be a "shortage of train crew" but that can be political and honestly these days for some TOCs you can't read much into the public delay or cancellation code they use...

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

A lot of Thameslink services show cancelled due to a planning error on RTT but shortage of train crew publicly

 

[jon0844]

A lot of Thameslink services show cancelled due to a planning error on RTT but shortage of train crew publicly

As stated above, there could be a driver unavailable for a train (so the reason IS correct) but it isn't a driver not having turned up for work or the diagram was uncovered due to not enough people volunteering to work that day, but one of the issues mentioned above - a driver breaking Hidden due to working later, a planning error on a train that they travelled passenger on (maybe the stock was in the wrong location), a train not being prepped elsewhere causing the driver to be late and so on.

Seeing 'shortage of train crew', especially now, does play into the narrative that all drivers are greedy, lazy or whatever you want to believe - because the description IS accurate but doesn't explain the whole picture.

 

[Harpo]

Seeing 'shortage of train crew', especially now, does play into the narrative that all drivers are greedy, lazy or whatever you want to believe - because the description IS accurate but doesn't explain the whole picture.

Quite. ‘Because we haven’t employed enough people’ isn’t like to appear on information systems.