Dumb tourist made mistakes

[tourist1982]

Hi all, I'm a dumb tourist who ****ed up today and would like to ask for advice.

I landed at the Luton airport today (first time in Britain) and had a pre-purchased train ticket to London for EMR (purchased via train line). I scanned the barcode at the gate, went to the platform and waited for my train.

The train was delayed and had no signs of coming soon. Then after some 40 minutes of wait the train was officially cancelled due to some technical problems.

Confused and not knowing what to do, I have purchased another ticket, this time for Thames Link, and got off with the first train. In the train came a first shock, when I realized I didn't go out of the station and then in again, technically still riding on the MER ticket. I wasn't checked and got out in London - I used the MER ticket again when leaving the station because I didn't know If there would be any problems with the Thames Link one.

After that, I ****ed up bad. I wanted to get some sort of refund, but I cancelled the Thames Link ticket - so now it looks like I got advantage of the situation, because it was a) unused and b) much more expensive than EMR. I immediately called technical support wanting to cancel the refund, but they were not able to do it (I didn't go into much more detail as to why I want to cancel the refund, as both of us had a thick accent - her Indian, me Eastern Europe - and I didn't hear her very well. I just said I made a mistake. But she understood what I wanted and concluded that it's not possible).

Not knowing what to do, I purchased another Thames Link ticket of the same price on Trainline to at least partially repair the damage. Like two hours later, I inspected the app again and saw that I can mark the ticket as used and I did so (would have been much better if I did it right away, but I didn't know).

Now I'm really nervous reading about all the investigations and possible punishments as my actions are extremely suspicious. Do you think I'm in a risk of some serious consequences?

I swear I'm normally not as dumb as I sure look now, but today I managed to make one idiotic mistake after another. If they send me a £100 fine, I will accept it, I'm just afraid it could be more serious.

 

[MP393]

Reading this I don’t think you have too much to worry about. Whilst they can and do monitor suspicious account behaviour and refunds, this normally for repeat offences on a pattern basis. If you weren’t stopped and gave details to any staff, and haven’t done it before, it’s a high chance it’ll just go unnoticed.

 

[tourist1982]

Thank you, I hope you are right

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, I hope you are right

Welcome to the UK!

Just head back here for advice on what to do about it if anything ever comes of this - you will get good help here if you need it as there are real experts on UK ticketing matters.

bear in mind they could check how to contact you via the e-mail you presumably registered when you bought your ticket on line - so keep and eye on your e-mail and also you spam (at least for a period of 6 months), but probably nothing will happen as said above.

Just take care with future rail ticket purchases to avoid problems - if you are unsure, try to buy tickets from station ticket offices, the prices they can sell the tickets at are usually the same as the prices on lone, despite places like Trainline trying to claim that they offer cheaper tickets. Ticket offices can sell tickets for travel at future dates at the same discounted prices as are sold on line, generally speaking. If this gives you peace of mind. But by all means do buy on line but take care about any restrictions with the ticket - eg cheaper on line tickets which websites often default to are only valid on the particular train listed, but there are tickets you can use on a range of trains at off peak times, or tickets that can be used on any train (which are naturally more expensive because they are more flexible). If unsure if your ticket is valid check with a member of staff by showing them the ticket before yo actually step on the train, if it is possible to do that.

Meanwhile enjoy your time in the UK and hopefully you will not have stressful travels!

 

[some bloke]

my actions are extremely suspicious.

Except you bought a replacement ticket for the Thameslink one you cancelled, which raises a high level of suspicion that you were trying to be honest?

 

[tourist1982]

Except you bought a replacement ticket for the Thameslink one you cancelled, which raises a high level of suspicion that you were trying to be honest?

Yes, but technically I still broke the rules

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2024 ==

Welcome to the UK!

Just head back here for advice on what to do about it if anything ever comes of this - you will get good help here if you need it as there are real experts on UK ticketing matters.

bear in mind they could check how to contact you via the e-mail you presumably registered when you bought your ticket on line - so keep and eye on your e-mail and also you spam (at least for a period of 6 months), but probably nothing will happen as said above.

Just take care with future rail ticket purchases to avoid problems - if you are unsure, try to buy tickets from station ticket offices, the prices they can sell the tickets at are usually the same as the prices on lone, despite places like Trainline trying to claim that they offer cheaper tickets. Ticket offices can sell tickets for travel at future dates at the same discounted prices as are sold on line, generally speaking. If this gives you peace of mind. But by all means do buy on line but take care about any restrictions with the ticket - eg cheaper on line tickets which websites often default to are only valid on the particular train listed, but there are tickets you can use on a range of trains at off peak times, or tickets that can be used on any train (which are naturally more expensive because they are more flexible). If unsure if your ticket is valid check with a member of staff by showing them the ticket before yo actually step on the train, if it is possible to do that.

Meanwhile enjoy your time in the UK and hopefully you will not have stressful travels!

Thank you so much for your advice. For a moment, I was thinking about writing them about the matter in detail and offer cooperation, do you think it is a good idea?

And a second question - if there is a problem, what can I expect? A fine or something worse?

 

[Trainman40083]

One of the joys of an "all operators" ticket is you don't get the issues, but they can be more expensive.. I guess where an issue arises with ticket cancellation is you went onto Luton with an EMR ticket, and at St Pancras at the lower level Thameslink station. If you didn't get stopped, I can't see further action.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your advice. For a moment, I was thinking about writing them about the matter in detail and offer cooperation, do you think it is a good idea?

And a second question - if there is a problem, what can I expect? A fine or something worse?

No - I would not write to them now. Put it behind you but keep an eye out in case they contact you.

If they did contact you they would probably send an initial message (they don't have your postal address unless someone took it and it sounds like they did not so would not be a letter) essentially asking for 'your version of events' (even if the letter includes other things alleging fares irregularities etc) - that would then be your chance to reply and explain what happened and why you did what you did. But IF that did happen then it would be best to get advice form here on how to reply to that in the clearest way that the railway company staff would understand and convinces them that you had no intention to deliberately not pay.

Just because you scanned a ticket to get through the barrier does not mean you used that tice to travel with, even if the scan records make it look like you might have done.

I suspect the Thameslink ticket would have been valid on both the Thameslink train and the EMR trains given that you say it was more expensive (but we'd need to see copies of the tickets or their official type of ticket names eg 'Advance' or 'Off peak' etc/ prices to be sure about that.

But I think it is very unlikely you will ever hear more about this.

 

[Starmill]

I don't think you need to be worried.

In future, if you get stuck by problems with the train you have booked, my advice would be to show your ticket to a member of the staff at the station and ask for help getting to wherever it says you're going. They can advise you what alternatives are running. You can also buy a replacement ticket from the station such as the ticket office or a ticket machine if that's easier for you. I appreciate also though that ticket machines and station staff don't usually have many languages other than English so this can be off putting, where your phone will do any language.

 

[tourist1982]

No - I would not write to them. Put it behind you but keep an eye out in case they contact you.

If they did contact you they would probably send an initial message (they don't have your postal address unless someone took it and it sounds like they did not so would not be a letter) essentially asking for 'your version of events' (even if the letter includes other things alleging fares irregularities etc) - that would then be your chance to reply and explain what happened and why you did what you did. But IF that did happen then it would be best to get advice form here on how to reply to that in the clearest way that the railway company staff would understand and convinces them that you had no intention to deliberately not pay.

Just because you scanned a ticket to get through the barrier does not mean you used that tice to travel with, even if the scan records make it look like you might have done.

I suspect the Thameslink ticket would have been valid on both the Thameslink train and the EMR trains given that you say it was more expensive (but we'd need to see copies of the tickets or their official type of ticket names eg 'Advance' or 'Off peak' etc/ prices to be sure about that.

But I think it is very unlikely you will ever hear more about this.

Thank you. What I fear the most is accidentally commiting a fraud and false representation by effectively riding with an invalid ticket which I cancelled (even though I bought a new one - but I can't prove I didn't use it similarly as well, other than it is for the same ride and I was already in London). The thing is that they will see that my train got cancelled, I bought a much more expensive ticket, didn't use it and than canceled it after I got out of the train.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but being from a country where everything is much more lenient, this is quite a culture shock.

I uploaded some screenshots of the ticket receipts from the Trainline app if it is any help. Thanks again for your kindness.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. What I fear the most is accidentally commiting a fraud and false representation by effectively riding with an invalid ticket which I cancelled (even though I bought a new one - but I can't prove I didn't use it similarly as well, other than it is for the same ride and I was already in London). The thing is that they will see that my train got cancelled, I bought a much more expensive ticket, didn't use it and than canceled it after I got out of the train.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but being from a country where everything is much more lenient, this is quite a culture shock.

I uploaded some screenshots of the ticket receipts from the Trainline app if it is any help. Thanks again for your kindness.

I think you are probably over thinking it but that is fair enough.

- The Anytime Single is valid on any train, any train operator, and any time of day

- The Advance Single is only valid on the set train listed on the ticket (details of that train not shown on your upload).

A delayed or cancelled train entitles you to a refund on the ticket on the basis that you may have chosen not to travel due to the disruption (no specification about how much of a delay allows that)

However, you said your train was a delayed then cancelled. In those circumstances it is reasonable (and permitted within the railway rules I believe) for you to use another alternative train without even buying a new ticket, because the railway company has inconvenienced you - and this would be the sort of argument that we would help you to use - along with quoting the correct clauses in the rules in the unlikely event you did get contacted.

If you can list the train time of the EMR train that was delayed / cancelled - we can look at the running log to see what actually happened to that train today.

Furthermore ,if your intended train was delayed by more than 15 minutes at the destination you are entitled to something called Delay - Repay compensation for the lateness of your arrival - but it may be best not to claim that given what you did with tickets / refunds etc which probably makes it more confusing to do the claim

 

[Haywain]

maybe I'm overthinking it, but being from a country where everything is much more lenient, this is quite a culture shock.

You're overthinking. Now please stop worrying and get on with being a normal tourist.

 

[tourist1982]

I think you are probably over thinking it but that is fair enough.

- The Anytime Single is valid on any train, any train operator, and any time of day

- The Advance Single is only valid on the set train listed on the ticket (details of that train not shown on your upload).

A delayed or cancelled train entitles you to a refund on the ticket on the basis that you may have chosen not to travel due to the disruption (no specification about how much of a delay allows that)

However, you said your train was a delayed then cancelled. In those circumstances it is reasonable (and permitted within the railway rules I believe) for you to use another alternative train without even buying a new ticket, because the railway company has inconvenienced you - and this would be the sort of argument that we would help you to use - along with quoting the correct clauses in the rules in the unlikely event you did get contacted.

If you can list the train time of the EMR train that was delayed / cancelled - we can look at the running log to see what actually happened to that train today.

Furthermore ,if your intended train was delayed by more than 15 minutes at the destination you are entitled to something called Delay - Repay compensation for the lateness of your arrival - but it may be best not to claim that given what you did with tickets / refunds etc which probably makes it more confusing to do the claim

The EMR was scheduled for 12:28 (but already marked as delayed) and few minutes before 13:00 was cancelled.
Info about the specific train is here: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C60598/2024-09-12

 

[WesternLancer]

The EMR was scheduled for 12:28 (but already marked as delayed) and few minutes before 13:00 was cancelled.
Info about the specific train is here: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C60598/2024-09-12

That was all I was going to look at

Nothing more to do unless you hear from the railway company.

 

[tourist1982]

That was all I was going to look at

Nothing more to do unless you hear from the railway company.

Sure, I agree. Thank you again for your amazing help. I will return for advice if something happens.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

You’ve nothing to worry about. A lot of EMR trains were cancelled - in both directions - this morning, due to a track circuit failure.
So I’m sure there would have been ticket acceptance put in place to allow customers to complete their journeys.
I know this because I was on a train from St Pancras to St Albans this morning, and we were routed onto the down fast line at West Hampstead Thameslink, to get around a stationary EMR train.

 

[tourist1982]

Thank you for the assurance. I didn't know that this acceptance can be possible across different train companies.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

It normally is.
Thameslink themselves posted about ticket acceptance today due to service disruption / lack of drivers anticipated for Saturday:

Alternative journey options:

To assist you on Saturday, you will be able to use your ticket at no extra cost on:

Southern and alternative Thameslink services between Horsham, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, East Croydon and London terminals
Alternative Thameslink and Great Northern services between Stevenage and London

 

[tourist1982]

Just checked EMR Twitter and they wrote regarding the incident: "We have arranged for you to use your tickets on other operators via alternative routes. Please check your journey before you travel"

Hopefully this included the Thameslink train, which was also to St Pancras. That would certainly be a relief, although I certainly wouldn't refund anything anymore.