Have GWR changed to midweek engineering (away from London)

[Snow1964]

Earlier in the year we had (now locked) thread about trialling midweek engineering

Could Network Rail implement (more) weekday closures?

Given that weekend travel feels busier than weekdays, especially since schoolchildren are also out and about, could we get more weekday closures, given that the ECML is closed Saturday to Tuesday? Major engineering work is taking place between Peterborough and London Kings Cross from Saturday...

www.railforums.co.uk

Now seems GWR and Network Rail (west) have actively adopted the policy

eg Llanelli area Mon 16 - Fri 20 Sept
Newbury area Tue 17 - Thur 19 Sep
Bristol to Bath Mon 28 - Thur 31 Oct
Swansea -Port Talbot Mon 4 - Thur 7 Nov
Newbury area Mon 11 to Thur 14 Nov
Newquay branch area Mon 18 Nov to Sun 1 Dec
Plymouth - Liskeard/Gunnislake Mon 2 - Fri 6 Dec
Newbury - Westbury Tue 10 - Thur 12 Dec
Westbury area Fri 27 Dec - Thur 23 Jan 2025
Taunton - Weston super Mare Mon 3 - Thur 6 Feb 2025

Wondered if the trial was a success, although in last quarter of this year on GWR lines does seem to be confusing mix of days being chosen, with some works still on Sundays, some whole weekends and others during the week, some starting Monday and some starting Tuesday

Anyone know how they are picking which days, or if this is start of a phased transfer away from weekend working to weekday engineering and longer line blocks.

 

[embers25]

Earlier in the year we had (now locked) thread about trialling midweek engineering

Could Network Rail implement (more) weekday closures?

Given that weekend travel feels busier than weekdays, especially since schoolchildren are also out and about, could we get more weekday closures, given that the ECML is closed Saturday to Tuesday? Major engineering work is taking place between Peterborough and London Kings Cross from Saturday...

www.railforums.co.uk

Now seems GWR and Network Rail (west) have actively adopted the policy

eg Llanelli area Mon 16 - Fri 20 Sept
Newbury area Tue 17 - Thur 19 Sep
Bristol to Bath Mon 28 - Thur 31 Oct
Swansea -Port Talbot Mon 4 - Thur 7 Nov
Newbury area Mon 11 to Thur 14 Nov
Newquay branch area Mon 18 Nov to Sun 1 Dec
Plymouth - Liskeard/Gunnislake Mon 2 - Fri 6 Dec
Newbury - Westbury Tue 10 - Thur 12 Dec
Westbury area Fri 27 Dec - Thur 23 Jan 2025
Taunton - Weston super Mare Mon 3 - Thur 6 Feb 2025

Wondered if the trial was a success, although in last quarter of this year on GWR lines does seem to be confusing mix of days being chosen, with some works still on Sundays, some whole weekends and others during the week, some starting Monday and some starting Tuesday

Anyone know how they are picking which days, or if this is start of a phased transfer away from weekend working to weekday engineering and longer line blocks.

Is it not ridiculous that both the GWR mainline (Newbury) and the SWR WoE line (Exeter-Axminster) will both be closed at the same time for both weeks. Also, are GWR really not setting down at Reading on the Sunday on the Euston services when the go to Euston as WoE is still closed too and realtimetrains says Reading is staffing only?!

 

[The Planner]

Anyone know how they are picking which days, or if this is start of a phased transfer away from weekend working to weekday engineering and longer line blocks.

It will be a conversation between NR and GWR based on resource and when GWR would like NR to do it mainly based on passenger numbers and revenue (not that the latter technically matters anymore). Clearly Friday is avoided if possible as people make an earlier get away. Its easier to do on single or double TOC areas.

 

[Snow1964]

It will be a conversation between NR and GWR based on resource and when GWR would like NR to do it mainly based on passenger numbers and revenue (not that the latter technically matters anymore). Clearly Friday is avoided if possible as people make an earlier get away. Its easier to do on single or double TOC areas.

This sort of fits in with what I suspected (which is why I asked the question), if it is seen as a route more for leisure then makes sense to keep long weekends free of engineering work.

Presumably that is also why works in Cornwall are in a block away from holiday season.

Although it is making it very difficult to plan undisrupted trains from SW to up country as other areas (and GWR at London area) are still using weekend engineering disruption

 

[The exile]

Is it not ridiculous that both the GWR mainline (Newbury) and the SWR WoE line (Exeter-Axminster) will both be closed at the same time for both weeks. Also, are GWR really not setting down at Reading on the Sunday on the Euston services when the go to Euston as WoE is still closed too and realtimetrains says Reading is staffing only?!

Presumably trains to the South West will be diverted via Swindon, so other than the increased risk factor of having a single point of failure people will still get through. Suppose those who would normally drive south to WoE line stations and don’t have the option of driving north to Berks & Hants alternatives will be a bit miffed…

 

[Taunton]

Presumably trains to the South West will be diverted via Swindon, so other than the increased risk factor of having a single point of failure people will still get through. Suppose those who would normally drive south to WoE line stations and don’t have the option of driving north to Berks & Hants alternatives will be a bit miffed…

Isn't one of the key issues nowadays that crews from Exeter/Plymouth etc no longer sign via Swindon (whether via Melksham or Bristol)?

 

[Chingy]

Isn’t one of the key issues nowadays that crews from Exeter/Plymouth etc no longer sign via Swindon

Exeter definitely sign via Swindon as the Sleeper often goes that way and is crewed by Exeter crew.

Plus IET’s regularly divert via Melksham when there are failures on the B&H, such as a couple of days ago when 6O98 failed.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Isn't one of the key issues nowadays that crews from Exeter/Plymouth etc no longer sign via Swindon (whether via Melksham or Bristol)?

That’s not quite true, Exeter crews sign all routes to London from Exeter and Plymouth drivers still sign from Westbury to Reading via Melksham and Bristol to Reading, they just lost Bristol to Taunton.

 

[JN114]

Exeter definitely sign via Swindon as the Sleeper often goes that way and is crewed by Exeter crew.

Plus IET’s regularly divert via Melksham when there are failures on the B&H, such as a couple of days ago when 6O98 failed.

That’s not quite true, Exeter crews sign all routes to London from Exeter and Plymouth drivers still sign from Westbury to Reading via Melksham and Bristol to Reading, they just lost Bristol to Taunton.

In both cases it’s only the old “high speed” depots that sign the diversions.

The new T&C “GWR” depots for Exeter and Plymouth only sign direct via the B&H. Reading now work some WoE services but only as far as Westbury, and not all of those sign Melksham.

In many cases the diversions the other day were thanks to the creative work of the traincrew desk stepping people up or even arranging non-IET Westbury drivers to route conduct between WSB and SWI.

 

[irish_rail]

In both cases it’s only the old “high speed” depots that sign the diversions.

The new T&C “GWR” depots for Exeter and Plymouth only sign direct via the B&H. Reading now work some WoE services but only as far as Westbury, and not all of those sign Melksham.

In many cases the diversions the other day were thanks to the creative work of the traincrew desk stepping people up or even arranging non-IET Westbury drivers to route conduct between WSB and SWI.

Yes it is the "unwanted" old HSS drivers who are capable of going over most diversions when the B and H is up the spout. Trouble is GWR seem hell bent on moving more and more London work over to the new "GWR" drivers , but without the diversionary route knowledge. This leads to predictable consequences. Trouble is, the amount of training required to get all the newer grade trained on all the diversions is huge, and when viewed against a backdrop of just removing the work from an already perfectly capable group of the workforce smacks purely of ideology. We can only hope some form of amalgamation between GWR and HSS can occur at some point to prevent the pointless loss of diversionary route knowledge that is and will continue to occur away from HSS drivers.

 

[stuu]

Are they going to finally fix whatever is causing the TSR on the Westbury avoiding line?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

In both cases it’s only the old “high speed” depots that sign the diversions.

The new T&C “GWR” depots for Exeter and Plymouth only sign direct via the B&H. Reading now work some WoE services but only as far as Westbury, and not all of those sign Melksham.

In many cases the diversions the other day were thanks to the creative work of the traincrew desk stepping people up or even arranging non-IET Westbury drivers to route conduct between WSB and SWI.

It all sounds so logical. Why have one driver who can go any which way when you can have three who only sign a little bit each? Ah, the future.

 

[Taunton]

With the line through Newbury closed midweek, what are the stone trains doing? Are they all going via Melksham as well?

 

[Chingy]

With the line through Newbury closed midweek, what are the stone trains doing? Are they all going via Melksham as well?

Yes.

 

[Taunton]

Yes.

Going to be a busy single line ...

More generally, midweek closures do mean having to cater for freight traffic, which is normally absent at weekends.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Going to be a busy single line ...

More generally, midweek closures do mean having to cater for freight traffic, which is normally absent at weekends.

Busy and not great when trains start presenting late. The whole section is one signal block so a following train will stand blocking the main line at Thingley Jn until the preceding one has cleared Bradford Jn or v.v. There might not be a case for redoubling but an intermediate block signal each way would be really useful. Even the local passenger service gets mostly replaced by buses when the WoE service is diverting to provide paths.

 

[Western Sunset]

I picked up a GW leaflet at Westbury yesterday, regarding Newbury area track renewals. Melksham will have a minimal train service; there will only be one peak-time journey in each direction.

The OP missed off the 7-day line closure between Castle Cary and Weymouth from 23rd to 29th Sept. from his/her list.

 

[embers25]

I see that in that they are also combining Bristol and Penzance trains, rather than diverted via Melksham for quite a few hours, meaning a significant reduction in capacity on top of SWR not running to Exeter. Absolutely crazy decision on the part of GWR/SWR (both owned by First)

 

[30907]

I see that in that they are also combining Bristol and Penzance trains, rather than diverted via Melksham for quite a few hours, meaning a significant reduction in capacity on top of SWR not running to Exeter. Absolutely crazy decision on the part of GWR/SWR (both owned by First)

I can't find any reference (SWR, NRE, RTT) to this.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Presumably if this long trial of midweek engineering work is successful on GWR, it will be rolled out to other regions?

 

[embers25]

I can't find any reference (SWR, NRE, RTT) to this.

Swr are buses Axminster to Exeter at the same time.

 

[The Planner]

Presumably if this long trial of midweek engineering work is successful on GWR, it will be rolled out to other regions?

Other regions also do it. Its hugely dependent on the route, diversions, how many TOCs etc for it to be viable

 

[30907]

Swr are buses Axminster to Exeter at the same time.

Found it. You were (presumably) referring to 11-14 Nov, the middle of 3 closures - and of course at the quietest time of year.

 

[embers25]

Agreed its not a busy time of year, but thats no excuse for creating a mess that doesn't need creating. Surely closing Newbury during the middle of a 2 week SWR closure (Euston diverts also fall in this) is just mad. So we have no SWR direct services and Penzance trains merged with Bristol ones for quite a few hours, so basically 3 trains in one each hour. Or put another way 26 coaches capacity reduced to 10 coaches at best (though sods law says some will end up being 5 coaches!). I also still don't get why GWR insist on running the ones that do run fast from Reading to Bristol in paths behind both the Bristol and the Cheltenham slow, meaning it crawls from Reading to Swindon despite being non-stop. This adds 10+ minutes to the already longer journey. This isn't last minute engineering and so could have been planned much better but yet never is as this happens every time.

For example the 1127 runs non-stop from Reading to Bristol but waits 11 minutes at Reading to let the 1130 and 1132 slows to Bristol and Cheltenham to overtake it. The result is that the 1130 stopping at Swindon, Chippenham and Bath arrives at Bristol 10 minutes before the Penzance train that left London first and ran fast. Utter madness.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Other regions also do it. Its hugely dependent on the route, diversions, how many TOCs etc for it to be viable

OK - thanks for that info.