Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

[Belperpete]

I am intending to travel to Vienna at the end of October, then subsequently travel to Germany, and then return to the UK in early November. I understand that it is intended to introduce the EES at the beginning of November (the new cubicles seem to be all powered up and running when I passed through Prague airport recently). So it looks like I could well be entering one EU country under the old arrangements, but leaving another part of the EU under the new. Does anybody know what the transition arrangements will be? Both UK and EU websites seem remarkably silent about arrangements for those already in the EU when the new arrangements come into force.

According to the EU site, they will no longer be stamping passports. But that would mean I will have an entry stamp in my passport, but no exit stamp, which could potentially cause problems in future. And as my fingerprints won't have been recorded on entry, will that cause me any issues with leaving? And could I have issues crossing between Austria and Germany?

 

[Mike395]

They’ll have thought of this; it isn’t exactly an edge case. My suspicion is that anyone who entered under the old ‘stamp’ arrangements will be stamped out again as per now or just left with only the entry stamp, with EES only taking effect on subsequent entry.

You will have zero issues crossing internal borders.

 

[cool110]

The wording of this page doesn't distinguish between entry and exit, other than the box at the bottom about officers taking additional measures as necessary. Which would imply that your fingerprints and/or photo will be registered on exit, and the passport will not be stamped.

 

[IanXC]

Regardless of what the official arrangements are, I'm sure if you are willing to queue up an exit stamp will be easily obtainable.

 

[Belperpete]

They’ll have thought of this; it isn’t exactly an edge case. My suspicion is that anyone who entered under the old ‘stamp’ arrangements will be stamped out again as per now or just left with only the entry stamp, with EES only taking effect on subsequent entry.

You will have zero issues crossing internal borders.

I would certainly hope that they would have thought about it, which is why I was surprised that there is no mention of it. Particularly as they could still have people exiting in this situation 90 days after the system has been introduced.

It is vital that your exit is not just recorded, but also linked to your entry. If your passport shows that you have entered the EU, but you have no proof of exit, then you could easily be in trouble the next time you try and re enter the EU, as it could look like you exceeded the 90 day limit. There are specific warnings about this on the gov UK website under the current arrangements. So I would be very concerned about any possibility that my exit wouldn't be recorded, as others have suggested above. If it is up to the individuals concerned to make sure that their passports are stamped, then it is fairly obvious that many won't (just as many seem to think they can still use the automatic EU channel gates that they always used to use!).

As there are specific warnings about this under the current system, I do feel it surprising that there is no mention about it for the transition period, by either UK or EU. Or even any mention of transition arrangements at all.

 

[StephenHunter]

Would you be able to register ahead of travelling - say going to St Pancras and using the machines there?

 

[Belperpete]

Would you be able to register ahead of travelling - say going to St Pancras and using the machines there?

The EU site says that you register when crossing a border, and that you then have to go to a passport control lane to be processed by a passport officer. Then, in future, you should be able to use the automatic scanners that we haven't been able to use since Brexit. So it doesn't look like you could just turn up at a border to register without intending to cross that border.

It also says

passport stamping will no longer exist once the EES is operational,

This implies that there won't even be the option of getting your passport stamped. I suppose it depends on whether they mean from day 1 of it becoming operational.

 

[nwales58]

All the above assumes 10/11/2024 actually meant 100% switch on ...

EU fingerprint and facial recognition checks expected to be delayed again

Border checks system was due to go live in November but some countries say they are not ready

www.theguardian.com

The full implementation of an EU entry-exit system introducing fingerprinting and facial recognition checks at ports and airports is expected to be delayed again amid fears over congestion and long queues.

Sources say UK transport operators were briefed by government officials last week to expect a further delay.

 

[ShadowKnight]

There will also be a 6 month or so overlap grace period where you could stamp or use the EES? So this shouldn't be much of an issue

 

[railfan99]

I will miss the train stamps...

 

[AlastairFraser]

I will miss the train stamps...

I think you will still be able to get this crossing borders into/between the non-EU Balkan countries?

 

[popeter45]

The EU site says that you register when crossing a border, and that you then have to go to a passport control lane to be processed by a passport officer. Then, in future, you should be able to use the automatic scanners that we haven't been able to use since Brexit. So it doesn't look like you could just turn up at a border to register without intending to cross that border.

worst case you buy the cheapest day return on either eurostar or an airline

 

[signed]

Some UK official (can't find the article) said the system will be in "soft start" for the first 6 months without more precisions

Entries and exits expire after 180 days for the calculation of the 90/180 rule.

What I anticipate will happen will be that EES will record any entry and exit as nornal while the guards will still review both the EES and your stamps for overstay.

After the 180 days post-EES launch passed, the last stamped entry/exit issued on November 9 would stop being used for the count. From that point, no need to review stamps anymore.

Then, if there is no entry in the EES as you are exiting on a short-stay permission, then you've overstayed your 90/180,

 

[cool110]

Some UK official (can't find the article) said the system will be in "soft start" for the first 6 months without more precisions

That's when EITAS starts, which has the EES as a prerequisite.

 

[island]

There will also be a 6 month or so overlap grace period where you could stamp or use the EES? So this shouldn't be much of an issue

This is not the case. Once EES starts, whenever that eventually is, all non-EU citizens will need to use it.

 

[Mojo]

Good news for those who like their passport stamps!

European Union delays introduction of new border check system - BBC News

The EU pushes back introducing new biometric border checks that were due on 10 November.

www.bbc.co.uk

EU delays introduction of border check system again
The European Union has again delayed introducing a fingerprint and facial scan check system for non-EU citizens at any EU border.
It was due to be rolled out on 10 November, but has been pushed back yet again after Germany, France and the Netherlands said their systems were not ready.
Meanwhile, sources have told the BBC that there has been no live testing of the EU’s software on the UK's border systems.
EU Home Affairs Commissioner Ylva Johansson said there was not a new timetable for its implementation, but it would be phased in.
"It's clear that we're not going to be ready for the 10 November," said Ms Johansson, adding: "We will be going for a phased approach, step by step."
This delay is the latest in a long line of setbacks for the system, which was originally meant to be introduced in 2022.
The Entry Exit System (EES) will mean non-EU citizens, including people from the UK, need to register biometric data at any EU border to get in rather than stamping passports.

 

[Taunton]

One wonders how it handles those who go by air or ferry from mainland Europe to Ireland (all within the EU), then cross the free border to Northern Ireland, then return directly from the UK to mainland Europe (or vice-versa).

 

[Mike395]

One wonders how it handles those who go by air or ferry from mainland Europe to Ireland (all within the EU), then cross the free border to Northern Ireland, then return directly from the UK to mainland Europe (or vice-versa).

EES is related to the Schengen border, so Ireland will be treated exactly like the UK.

Bad news for me re the additional delay though, I'm rapidly running out of space in my passport! Was hoping EES would be in place in time for me to not have to renew a couple of years early...

 

[island]

One wonders how it handles those who go by air or ferry from mainland Europe to Ireland (all within the EU), then cross the free border to Northern Ireland, then return directly from the UK to mainland Europe (or vice-versa).

Ireland isn't part of Schengen or EES, so people will be checked out of Schengen at the airport from which they fly to Ireland, and back in when they return from the UK, just like now.

 

[Cloud Strife]

One wonders how it handles those who go by air or ferry from mainland Europe to Ireland (all within the EU), then cross the free border to Northern Ireland, then return directly from the UK to mainland Europe (or vice-versa).

One big issue that the UK is unwilling to confront is that there's simply no way to stop EU/EEA/CH citizens from doing exactly this. My last journey a four months ago involved doing Poland -> Ireland -> UK -> Poland, with the first two flights on my Polish ID card and the last one on my British passport. I lied to the Ryanair gate staff in Dublin Airport about having settled status in the UK, and unless the UK has linked my Polish ID card with my British passport, then any back end systems will show that there's someone with my name and Polish citizenship that has entered the UK and hasn't left.

Furthermore, the Irish GNIB/ISD cannot and won't stop EU citizens from entering, and their checks are very cursory.

Good news for those who like their passport stamps!

I have a strong suspicion that there's significant pushback from border police on land borders regarding this. The idea of having the police walk around with tablets is going to rely on having a mobile signal, something that isn't the case at quite a few Schengen land borders.

 

[island]

One big issue that the UK is unwilling to confront is that there's simply no way to stop EU/EEA/CH citizens from doing exactly this. My last journey a four months ago involved doing Poland -> Ireland -> UK -> Poland, with the first two flights on my Polish ID card and the last one on my British passport. I lied to the Ryanair gate staff in Dublin Airport about having settled status in the UK, and unless the UK has linked my Polish ID card with my British passport, then any back end systems will show that there's someone with my name and Polish citizenship that has entered the UK and hasn't left.

That isn't really relevant to the EES, but for what it's worth, the UK authorities would say this cannot happen as a UK citizen is required to enter the UK on their UK passport

 

[JamesT]

That isn't really relevant to the EES, but for what it's worth, the UK authorities would say this cannot happen as a UK citizen is required to enter the UK on their UK passport

I don't believe there is any such requirement by the UK. However I am surprised that the staff at Dublin were willing to take @Cloud Strife 's word on having Settled Status rather than him having to prove it. (Which presumably he can't)

 

[signed]

I lied to the Ryanair gate staff in Dublin Airport about having settled status in the UK

However I am surprised that the staff at Dublin were willing to take @Cloud Strife 's word on having Settled Status rather than him having to prove it. (Which presumably he can't)

Good old Ryanair, doing stuff they don't really have the right to do. People are free of movement in the CTA and the airlines do not usually have any say.

Flights between the United Kingdom and the Channel Islands, Ireland (Rep.) and Isle of Man are treated as domestic flights, therefore are not subject to UK immigration control.

From Timatic (the IATA documents database)

https://www.copaair.com/en-us/timatic/

 

[Mag_seven]

Was hoping EES would be in place in time for me to not have to renew a couple of years early...

I had to do that incurring the expense earlier then I should have. Cheers Brexit!

 

[JamesT]

Good old Ryanair, doing stuff they don't really have the right to do. People are free of movement in the CTA and the airlines do not usually have any say.

British and Irish citizens have freedom of movement in the CTA. Citizens of other countries can and do have restrictions on their movement which the two countries are supposed to enforce mutually. The airline has to abide by the laws of the countries it's operating in, which I would expect include checking status before allowing boarding.
In this case, an EU citizen can only enter the UK on an identity card (rather than a passport) if they have (pre-)settled status and there is a system for those people to be able to prove it.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Good old Ryanair, doing stuff they don't really have the right to do. People are free of movement in the CTA and the airlines do not usually have any say.

The freedom of movement in the CTA does only apply to British and Irish citizens, although the UK made it quite clear that the issue of having settled status (or not) was down to the UK to figure out, not the airlines.

I don't believe there is any such requirement by the UK. However I am surprised that the staff at Dublin were willing to take @Cloud Strife 's word on having Settled Status rather than him having to prove it. (Which presumably he can't)

This is pretty much standard when flying to the UK, the gate agents will ask if you have settled status, if you say "yes", then they'll let you board with an ID card. I've always got my British passport on the off chance of being stopped, but it's just easier and more convenient to have my plastic ID card in my hand rather than holding a flimsy booklet.

Apparently once the ETA launches properly, the passport/ID number given at check in will be used to verify whether a traveller is allowed to go to the UK or not. That should solve the problem of RoI-UK flights, but it still won't solve the problem of NI-GB travel.

 

[island]

I don't believe there is any such requirement by the UK.

UK citizens with other nationalities, seeking to enter the UK are required under Home Office rules to use their UK passport for this purpose, unless they have paid more than three times the cost of a passport to have a "certificate of entitlement to the right of abode" endorsed in their foreign passport. Further reading on the subject:

• https://the3million.org.uk/faq/naturalised-no-uk-passport
• Part 1 of the Immigration Act 1971, particularly sections 1, 2, 3 (1) And (8)

Whilst enforcement of this requirement is variable, and someone presenting at the border with a passport from a country whose citizens do not need a visa to enter the UK is likely to be admitted with few enquiries, what I originally wrote in post 21 is correct.

(Coda: A South African friend of mine applied for a visa for the UK and wound up getting refused after enquiries found his father was British, making him British also. He was advised in almost exactly the above words that he had to get a British passport and use it.)

 

[Chester1]

UK citizens with other nationalities, seeking to enter the UK are required under Home Office rules to use their UK passport for this purpose, unless they have paid more than three times the cost of a passport to have a "certificate of entitlement to the right of abode" endorsed in their foreign passport. Further reading on the subject:

• https://the3million.org.uk/faq/naturalised-no-uk-passport
• Part 1 of the Immigration Act 1971, particularly sections 1, 2, 3 (1) And (8)

Whilst enforcement of this requirement is variable, and someone presenting at the border with a passport from a country whose citizens do not need a visa to enter the UK is likely to be admitted with few enquiries, what I originally wrote in post 21 is correct.

(Coda: A South African friend of mine applied for a visa for the UK and wound up getting refused after enquiries found his father was British, making him British also. He was advised in almost exactly the above words that he had to get a British passport and use it.)

Enforcement will become much stronger when UK ETA phases 3 and 4 occur early next year. UK ETA won't be valid if issued to a British Citizen. It's causing aggravation within my brothers social circle because of other British emmigrants who no longer have British passports or whose kids have never have one. They will be required to get one for travel after 8th January. I suspect leeway will be given for a while but a British citizen traveling to the UK on another passport could be offloaded. Requiring Citizens to enter a country using the national Passport is normal. The UK and EU are just copying countries that already have ETAs.

It looks UK will go first which will be interesting. EU citizens will require UK ETA from April.

The CTA problem is probably best left if you favour open borders. The hole can't be closed yet but it could be shrunk considerably by full passport controls for GB-RoI travel.

 

[JamesT]

UK citizens with other nationalities, seeking to enter the UK are required under Home Office rules to use their UK passport for this purpose, unless they have paid more than three times the cost of a passport to have a "certificate of entitlement to the right of abode" endorsed in their foreign passport. Further reading on the subject:

• https://the3million.org.uk/faq/naturalised-no-uk-passport
• Part 1 of the Immigration Act 1971, particularly sections 1, 2, 3 (1) And (8)

Whilst enforcement of this requirement is variable, and someone presenting at the border with a passport from a country whose citizens do not need a visa to enter the UK is likely to be admitted with few enquiries, what I originally wrote in post 21 is correct.

(Coda: A South African friend of mine applied for a visa for the UK and wound up getting refused after enquiries found his father was British, making him British also. He was advised in almost exactly the above words that he had to get a British passport and use it.)

I don’t believe what you’re quoting says what you claim. If you want to enter the UK “as a UK citizen” then you need those documents. However linked from your 3million link is a response from the Border Force stating:

Dual nationals may choose to present a valid national passport in either of their nationalities at the UK border.

 

[sk688]

As a UK citizen born outside of the UK but now living in Ireland I ran into so many issues when trying to fly on my driving licence , with regards to the guards at Dublin Airport that now I just take my passport with me everytime anyway

There was an Irish times piece about the myth of passport-free CTA flying a few weeks back as well