Bidders announced for Croydon Tram CR4000 replacement and fleet renewal

[RacsoMoquette]

It will be very interesting to see the winner of the bid, though should TFL risk purchasing Urbos from CAF due to the many defects such as cracking on other varieties globally? Stadler have also been selected to bid and if they win maybe we will see something akin to the Variobahn or something like a Class 398 or Class 399? Alstom and Hitachi have also been selected as bidders so I wonder what products they will put forward?

 

[stuu]

Ansaldo Breda, which was bought by Hitachi a few years ago, have produced a fair few trams so they have the ability to do so. They have a far worse reputation than even CAF though

 

[DanNCL]

For clarity the bidders are as follows:
Alstom
CAF
Hitachi
Stadler Valencia

Surprised Siemens didn’t make the cut considering they’re building the 2024 stock, and Siemens have a much larger tram portfolio than Hitachi.

It will be very interesting to see the winner of the bid, though should TFL risk purchasing Urbos from CAF due to the many defects such as cracking on other varieties globally? Stadler have also been selected to bid and if they win maybe we will see something akin to the Variobahn or something like a Class 398 or Class 399? Alstom and Hitachi have also been selected as bidders so I wonder what products they will put forward?

Won’t be 398s as they’re high floor. A version of the 399 is possible but it would probably be over specced for Croydon.

Alstom are bidding from the same subsidiary as delivered the Citadis for Nottingham so their bid is likely a Citadis model.

Hitachi will probably adapt their new Italian model.

 

[Thirteen]

Siemens not making the cut is a surprise.

Stadler I'm guessing the TINA would be an option since it's their newest model. Alstom would have to be the Citadis which is a tried and tested design and CAF the Urbos family.

I've had a look at the Hitachi trams in Italy and they look really nice. Interestingly if Hitachi got it, they'd be working for TfL for the first time.

 

[Snow1964]

I suspect there is now a question over Stadler production capacity as they have just announced order for 504 citylink trams to be built at Valencia (246 units plus options for 258 vehicles) for Germany and Austria.

Stadler Valencia to Produce 504 Innovative Citylink Trams for Germany and Austria: The Largest Contract in Europe

Stadler Valencia will manufacture 504 trams for a consortium of German and Austrian operators as part of the largest contract in the company's history, this is

www.railway.supply

 

[DanNCL]

Siemens not making the cut is a surprise.

Stadler I'm guessing the TINA would be an option since it's their newest model. Alstom would have to be the Citadis which is a tried and tested design and CAF the Urbos family.

I've had a look at the Hitachi trams in Italy and they look really nice. Interestingly if Hitachi got it, they'd be working for TfL for the first time.

Stadler are bidding through their Valencia site which only builds the ex Vossloh product lines, so for trams that’s the Citylink and Tramlink families.
Iirc the TINA is only built in Switzerland.

I suspect there is now a question over Stadler production capacity as they have just announced order for 504 citylink trams to be built at Valencia (246 units plus options for 258 vehicles) for Germany and Austria.

Stadler Valencia to Produce 504 Innovative Citylink Trams for Germany and Austria: The Largest Contract in Europe

Stadler Valencia will manufacture 504 trams for a consortium of German and Austrian operators as part of the largest contract in the company's history, this is

www.railway.supply

That order was first announced a long time ago and production for those is already well under way. Indeed, not impossible that Stadler’s bid for Croydon may well be to use that design and production line, in a similar fashion to the Croydon Variobahns being built to Bergen specifications on the same production line.

 

[edwin_m]

That order was first announced a long time ago and production for those is already well under way. Indeed, not impossible that Stadler’s bid for Croydon may well be to use that design and production line, in a similar fashion to the Croydon Variobahns being built to Bergen specifications on the same production line.

Indeed, I think they actually supplied Croydon with some of the vehicles intended for Bergen, who didn't need them until later on so were added to the end of the production run. Does anyone know if the Variobahns are well liked by TfL?

 

[Thirteen]

Stadler are bidding through their Valencia site which only builds the ex Vossloh product lines, so for trams that’s the Citylink and Tramlink families.
Iirc the TINA is only built in Switzerland.

The aptly named Tramlink might be a good option for TfL as the Citylink family is more Tram-Train than Tram. They already use Tramlink trams in Bern and Geneva is getting them in 2025.

CAF seems a risky choice for the tram tender considering the B23s are delayed on the DLR but also the Urbos trams have had issues in the last few years. I imagine Alstom is offering the Citadis X05 since it's their newest model and it's already in service in Athens.