Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[Zeremony]

Where do the 3+2 seat 450s work to, out of interest?

Around 70% of SWRs electrified services

Waterloo to Portsmouth, Alton, Basingstoke, Windsor, Reading, Weybridge / Hounslow loop and Haslemere
Southampton to Portsmouth
Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier
Winchester to Bournemouth
Ascot to Guildford

Also might stray onto Waterloo to Weymouth, Southampton and Bournemouth

 

[Merle Haggard]

Portsmouth (via both routes). They are also diagramed to do Waterloo to Southampton attached to a 444, which then runs fast to Weymouth whilst the detached 450 follows slow to Poole (and vice versa)

Thanks. I didn't realise that Portsmouth was treated to the same standards of provision as Northampton. We'll have to set up a twinning .

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Around 70% of SWRs electrified services

Waterloo to Portsmouth, Alton, Basingstoke, Windsor, Reading, Weybridge / Hounslow loop and Haslemere
Southampton to Portsmouth
Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier
Winchester to Bournemouth
Ascot to Guildford

Also might stray onto Waterloo to Weymouth, Southampton and Bournemouth

Point well made!

I can also see how the whingeing about Corby cl 360's would hit a nerve in S.W.R. - land, too. Sorry..

 

[800001]

I noted 206, 207 and 224 amongst others there yesterday.

Viewed Friday 06/09 from Balby Care Bank Road - 730208 and 730225

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730231 Derby to Oxley this morning.

 

[ED73]

Thanks. I didn't realise that Portsmouth was treated to the same standards of provision as Northampton. We'll have to set up a twinning .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2024 ==



Point well made!

I can also see how the whingeing about Corby cl 360's would hit a nerve in S.W.R. - land, too. Sorry..

The point was more about how long you have to wait for new rolling stock that just sits around the country, i.e. Class 701s. By that measure, Class 730 introduction has been slick!

 

[Russel]

Haven't been keeping up with this thread, have any dates been suggested for the entry into service for the LNWR 730s?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Haven't been keeping up with this thread, have any dates been suggested for the entry into service for the LNWR 730s?

Staff were told December for 1st ones, but it's gone very quiet and our depot hasn't started training which should have happened in July

 

[Peter Sarf]

730045 has migrated back South. After a sojourn at Rugby for many weeks it has materialised on one of the Euston services on its own (e.g. 15:54 Euston to Tring).

The recent arrivals at Willesden from Old Dalby 730026 & 730035 were this evening at Camden CSD. Possibly in between test runs ?.

I feel there are more 730/2s about at the London end.
730205 + 730(220 probably) were at the back of Camden CSD
730215 is in Wembley yard but there were two more 730/2s further away.

 

[DavidGrain]

Thinking about it, When both WMR and LNR have 730s running the full service, they can do what was originally proposed and that is to split the two brands properly with WMR taking over the local services. Walsall-Birmingham-Wolverhampton and Rugeley-Birmingham International which can be operated by WMR. After all the only real reason for LNR to run those services is that they are currently operated by class 350s. Remember a few years ago when when LNR trains carried silly notices saying things like 'I also operate in the West Midlands'.

 

[Russel]

Staff were told December for 1st ones, but it's gone very quiet and our depot hasn't started training which should have happened in July

So most likely the first half of next year then?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Thinking about it, When both WMR and LNR have 730s running the full service, they can do what was originally proposed and that is to split the two brands properly with WMR taking over the local services. Walsall-Birmingham-Wolverhampton and Rugeley-Birmingham International which can be operated by WMR. After all the only real reason for LNR to run those services is that they are currently operated by class 350s. Remember a few years ago when when LNR trains carried silly notices saying things like 'I also operate in the West Midlands'.

I feel like union politics will prevent that happening. No way are the all powerful New St giving up the Birmingham to Liverpool work for starters.

 

[alm37]

730045 has migrated back South. After a sojourn at Rugby for many weeks it has materialised on one of the Euston services on its own (e.g. 15:54 Euston to Tring).

The recent arrivals at Willesden from Old Dalby 730026 & 730035 were this evening at Camden CSD. Possibly in between test runs ?.

I feel there are more 730/2s about at the London end.
730205 + 730(220 probably) were at the back of Camden CSD
730215 is in Wembley yard but there were two more 730/2s further away.

228 and 229 will have been the two further away.

 

[DavidGrain]

I feel like union politics will prevent that happening. No way are the all powerful New St giving up the Birmingham to Liverpool work for starters.

Birmingham to Liverpool would naturally fall in LNR so I am not suggesting a change in that service. It is the local West Midlands services that I think should come under WMR.
The Rugeley services no longer continue on to Liverpool. I have not seen a printed timetable for years but the Rugley timetable used to show alternating LNR and WMR trains which was a nonsense as all the trains were LNR.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Birmingham to Liverpool would naturally fall in LNR so I am not suggesting a change in that service. It is the local West Midlands services that I think should come under WMR.
The Rugeley services no longer continue on to Liverpool. I have not seen a printed timetable for years but the Rugley timetable used to show alternating LNR and WMR trains which was a nonsense as all the trains were LNR.

Apologies, I always classed the Rugeley work as WMR which I absolutely think it should. The via Stoke was rumoured to swap to WMR (hence Stone being in WMR colours) but given it now goes nowhere near Birmingham I doubt that would swap.

 

[mansonlo49]

seen 730205 on sunday at siding near euston（Camden?）

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2024 ==

730045 has migrated back South. After a sojourn at Rugby for many weeks it has materialised on one of the Euston services on its own (e.g. 15:54 Euston to Tring).

The recent arrivals at Willesden from Old Dalby 730026 & 730035 were this evening at Camden CSD. Possibly in between test runs ?.

I feel there are more 730/2s about at the London end.
730205 + 730(220 probably) were at the back of Camden CSD
730215 is in Wembley yard but there were two more 730/2s further away.

 

[778]

Will the 730/2s have as many table seats as the 350s? Was on a 730/0 last week and found that some of the table seats don't line up with the windows very well. Hopefully that will not be the case with the 730/2s. Also, I know this is not really important but I am surprised that this thread is not in the Rolling Stock section of this forum. When I look for updates about the 730s I keep forgetting that this thread is in the Allocations & Timetables section.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thinking about it, When both WMR and LNR have 730s running the full service, they can do what was originally proposed and that is to split the two brands properly with WMR taking over the local services. Walsall-Birmingham-Wolverhampton and Rugeley-Birmingham International which can be operated by WMR. After all the only real reason for LNR to run those services is that they are currently operated by class 350s. Remember a few years ago when when LNR trains carried silly notices saying things like 'I also operate in the West Midlands'.

I remain confused with the plan.
AIUI the WMR / LNwR franchise was to split during the course of the deal, into LNR and WMR. The 350s apart from /2 would be retained but I hjave no idea which "half franchise" was to keep which. Three versions of 730 were ordered.
3 car 90mph "metro" 730/0s were to completely replace the 323s
5 car 110mph 730/1s and 5 car 110mph 730/2s were to work for one, other or both.

In my eyes this meant that the current jumble of 350s would eventually have to be sorted out simply because the ex Silverlink multiple diagrams would have to be diagrammed 350 OR 730 as they couldn't multi.

Two limitations
A) the Chase line can only accommodate either 4 car 350s or 3 car 730/0s
B) the Cross City line can only accept 3 or 6 car 730/0s

Will be interested to see what happens when all the 730s are delivered and in traffic

 

[AJDesiro]

Will the 730/2s have as many table seats as the 350s? Was on a 730/0 last week and found that some of the table seats don't line up with the windows very well. Hopefully that will not be the case with the 730/2s. Also, I know this is not really important but I am surprised that this thread is not in the Rolling Stock section of this forum. When I look for updates about the 730s I keep forgetting that this thread is in the Allocations & Timetables section.

This is a seating plan I made based off of extensive reference images of the interior I photographed. The window alignment isn't great but it's on a par with the 2+2 350s.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Can anyone help with 5Q74 11:26 Old Dalby to Willesden T.M.D today (11/09/2024) ?.

Realtime Trains | 5Q74 1126 Old Dalby to Willesden T.M.D | 11/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q74 1126 departure from Old Dalby to Willesden T.M.D on 11/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think (eagerly anticipate) it might be 2 x 730/0s hauled by 43s ?.

ANSWERED :-

37608 & 730025, 730034

I have copied here for those who follow the 730s.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There are LNwR route diagrams (over the doors, with WMR over the opposite door) in the 730/0s working in Birmingham. As has already been mentioned, they don't show the Milton Keynes - Northampton - Birmingham line, but they DO show all the other routes.
What I can't work out is whether this is intended to show all class 730 (both sub-classes) routes, some of which I thought would never be 730/0 operated, or whether it's early intimidation that there might perhaps be 8 car 730?0 + 730/2 combinations on, say, Euston - Crewe.
Equally puzzling are the 3 car stop signs at some stations along the route that was intended to remain 350 - worked.
I can't work it out, but I am assuming that there's logic behind it - maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

 

[AJDesiro]

There are LNwR route diagrams (over the doors, with WMR over the opposite door) in the 730/0s working in Birmingham. As has already been mentioned, they don't show the Milton Keynes - Northampton - Birmingham line, but they DO show all the other routes.
What I can't work out is whether this is intended to show all class 730 (both sub-classes) routes, some of which I thought would never be 730/0 operated, or whether it's early intimidation that there might perhaps be 8 car 730?0 + 730/2 combinations on, say, Euston - Crewe.
Equally puzzling are the 3 car stop signs at some stations along the route that was intended to remain 350 - worked.
I can't work it out, but I am assuming that there's logic behind it - maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

I'm pretty sure the maps just show all 730 routes. 730/0s won't be able to operate on Euston-Crewe as they would lose a significant amount of time, especially on the WCML south fasts.

There's an industry effort to simplify stop markers, with far less rolling-stock specific markers, stations will have been given 3 car stops since it provides flexibility for a 730/0 (or some other 3 car unit) to operate there in the future, or in the inevitable event of disruption.

As far as I'm aware though, 730/0s will only be used on Walsall-Wolverhampton, the Cross City and the Chase Line. Birmingham-Liverpool, Euston-Crewe and Euston-Tring/MKC will see 730/2s.

 

[Class15]

As far as I'm aware though, 730/0s will only be used on Walsall-Wolverhampton, the Cross City and the Chase Line. Birmingham-Liverpool, Euston-Crewe and Euston-Tring/MKC will see 730/2s.

Does that mean the 350s will only work Birmingham - Crewe via Stoke, London - Birmingham and Watford Junction - St Albans Abbey?

 

[Peter Sarf]

There are LNwR route diagrams (over the doors, with WMR over the opposite door) in the 730/0s working in Birmingham. As has already been mentioned, they don't show the Milton Keynes - Northampton - Birmingham line, but they DO show all the other routes.
What I can't work out is whether this is intended to show all class 730 (both sub-classes) routes, some of which I thought would never be 730/0 operated, or whether it's early intimidation that there might perhaps be 8 car 730?0 + 730/2 combinations on, say, Euston - Crewe.
Equally puzzling are the 3 car stop signs at some stations along the route that was intended to remain 350 - worked.
I can't work it out, but I am assuming that there's logic behind it - maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

My facts/memory might be a bit messed up but iirc the 730/2s are 110mph - so they are more likely to do the limited stop services out of Euston all the way to Crewe. So 730/0s might not do much on the fast lines. If Birmingham to Liverpool makes more sense with a 110mph unit then I feel it will be operated by 730/2s.

So 730/0s won't have route maps in them for routes that demand 110mph working.

Sort of beaten to it by @AJDesiro above.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I'm pretty sure the maps just show all 730 routes. 730/0s won't be able to operate on Euston-Crewe as they would lose a significant amount of time, especially on the WCML south fasts.

There's an industry effort to simplify stop markers, with far less rolling-stock specific markers, stations will have been given 3 car stops since it provides flexibility for a 730/0 (or some other 3 car unit) to operate there in the future, or in the inevitable event of disruption.

As far as I'm aware though, 730/0s will only be used on Walsall-Wolverhampton, the Cross City and the Chase Line. Birmingham-Liverpool, Euston-Crewe and Euston-Tring/MKC will see 730/2s.

Yes, I thought that that was the case.
It just seems a bit odd if not misleading; I doubt that many passengers would be interested in that fact! Might be more interested in how whether they can get from Milton Keynes to Birmingham for which the map shows no service.

My facts/memory might be a bit messed up but iirc the 730/2s are 110mph - so they are more likely to do the limited stop services out of Euston all the way to Crewe. So 730/0s might not do much on the fast lines. If Birmingham to Liverpool makes more sense with a 110mph unit then I feel it will be operated by 730/2s.

So 730/0s won't have route maps in them for routes that demand 110mph working.

Sort of beaten to it by @AJDesiro above.

Thanks; but they do! - bit in bold - which is what puzzled me.
It's not the first time that the TOC has units with different max speeds (350/2 and the other 350 sub-classes) and, curiously, 100 mph 350/2s seem to keep time between Rugby and Hanslope where you might think that occupation would be critical.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, I thought that that was the case.
It just seems a bit odd if not misleading; I doubt that many passengers would be interested in that fact! Might be more interested in how whether they can get from Milton Keynes to Birmingham for which the map shows no service.




Thanks; but they do! - bit in bold - which is what puzzled me.
It's not the first time that the TOC has units with different max speeds (350/2 and the other 350 sub-classes) and, curiously, 100 mph 350/2s seem to keep time between Rugby and Hanslope where you might think that occupation would be critical.

But istr the 730/0s do not have the maps in showing a link from Milton Keynes to Birmingham ?. That would be where I was thinking the definite 110mph running capability is required so the 730/0s are never going to run that bit (never say never of course).

I do agree that leaving a gap between the London end and the Birmingham end is poor information map wise. But I think it is solely because the 730/0s are temporarily to be found at the London end. I feel the South WCML map will be removed once all the 730/0s are where they belong - all over the West Midlands.

Let us not forget that the sizes of each subclass have changed since the original plan. There are many more 730/0s so I wonder what extra workings they will be found on compared to any earlier plans.

 

[87015]

Some 730/0 Euston diagrams are expected to be a permanent feature after the rejig of the 5-car fleet being cut back.

 

[Merle Haggard]

But istr the 730/0s do not have the maps in showing a link from Milton Keynes to Birmingham ?. That would be where I was thinking the definite 110mph running capability is required so the 730/0s are never going to run that bit (never say never of course).

Yes, the Birmingham via Northampton services are shown as 'timed for 110 mph running'. But so are both the Euston - Crewe and Birmingham. -Liverpool ones , and these are shown on the map.

Some 730/0 Euston diagrams are expected to be a permanent feature after the rejig of the 5-car fleet being cut back.

Presumably these will swap over with Birmingham area ones through the maintenance cycle and they'll all be in orange with the small explanatory notice underneath the West Midlands logo. The oddity about the 'diamonds' logo on the orange sets is that it's a West Midlands council logo rather than a railway one - it's also used on bus stops and, I think, trams.

 

[JonathanH]

It's not the first time that the TOC has units with different max speeds (350/2 and the other 350 sub-classes) and, curiously, 100 mph 350/2s seem to keep time between Rugby and Hanslope where you might think that occupation would be critical.

The 350/2s were eventually (by the end of 2018) given the same treatment as the rest of the 350s to run at 110mph, so you would expect them to keep time now.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-350-2-110mph.177088/#post-3841826

 

[Merle Haggard]

The 350/2s were eventually (by the end of 2018) given the same treatment as the rest of the 350s to run at 110mph, so you would expect them to keep time now.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-350-2-110mph.177088/#post-3841826

Before the 350/2s had the speed increase they kept time on '110 mph' schedules, too. I was surprised that they were used on Euston - Crewe services particularly as this involved running through the Hanslope - Rugby Old Line bottleneck & I had the opportunity to speak to a driver of one at Rugby; he said that there was no problem keeping time. Similarly, the short lived Northampton - Euston non-stop service; kept time with a 100 mph 350/2 from experience.
But if you look at point to point times of Avanti services on the Rugby - Hanslope - Leighton Buzzard section of the WCML you will see that trains aren't timed quite as fast you might think in terms of average speed based on point to point passing times. Even more so further South.

 

[778]

Some 730/0 Euston diagrams are expected to be a permanent feature after the rejig of the 5-car fleet being cut back.

Are some 730/0s going to stay with LNR and not move to WMR? If that is the case they should be repainted in LNR colors.

 

[Kite159]

I presume there are too many 730/0s for the current timetable in the Birmingham area (ordered before Covid when it was 6tph) taking into account the Cross-City line, the Wolverhampton - Walsall stoppers (any news on when more 730s are due to appear on that route?) plus anything else they had planned [Chase Line?]