Trainline refund not available on “scanned” ticket

[bunny247]

I would greatly appreciate this forum’s assistance on a matter concerning trying to obtain a refund on a ticket for a return journey - my apologies in advance if I have supplied too much detail.

I used trainline.com to by an off-peak return ticket, which was valid on Grand Central trains only, outbound from London Kings Cross to Northallerton. I used the outbound on 6th September, and was intending to use the return on 8th September. The return was valid until 5th October.

I (foolishly) journeyed back from Northallerton firstly on the Trans-Pennine express train from Northallerton to York, and then got on the 17:59 LNER train from York to London Kings Cross. It was on this train that the ticket inspector scanned my return journey ticket and informed me I did not have a valid ticket for this service and would need to purchase a new ticket for the York to London Kings Cross journey. This was a silly mistake by me and I totally accept that it was my responsibility to properly check the route my ticket was valid on, and I immediately bought a new ticket.

I then contacted trainline to request a refund for my return ticket. Trainline have informed me that my return ticket cannot be refunded as it was scanned at 18:18. This is difficult for me to understand - I acknowledge that it was scanned, but I was not able to actually use the ticket for travel, as I was on the incorrect service?

My new LNER ticket from York to London Kings Cross states that I purchased the ticket at 18:19.

I would appreciate any guidance this forum has on whether I should continue to press trainline for a refund as I find it difficult to understand why I am not eligible in this situation. Conversely if there are any T&Cs I’ve missed I would be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance!

 

[LowLevel]

Might be somewhat tricky for you - did you have any other ticket for Northallerton to York other than the GC only ticket you presented on LNER?

 

[AlterEgo]

What was the new ticket you purchased? Was it from Northallerton? Or York?

 

[bunny247]

No other ticket, no. At that leg of the journey I had thought my GC only ticket from Northallerton to London Kings Cross ticket was valid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No other ticket, no. At that leg of the journey I had thought my GC only ticket from Northallerton to London Kings Cross ticket was valid.

In that case the ticket is part used and thus cannot be refunded. Prior to the latest NRCoT you could have got an abandoned journey refund, but now this mandates returning to the origin.

 

[bunny247]

What was the new ticket you purchased? Was it from Northallerton? Or York?

Ticket was from York to London Kings Cross, purchased from the ticket inspector on the LNER train after we had left York. Attached photo for reference

 

[AlterEgo]

This may be a tricky refund to sort, as any refund will need to account for the use you made on the outbound and partially on the return too.

I’m not entirely sure how that would be calculated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This may be a tricky refund to sort, as any refund will need to account for the use you made on the outbound and partially on the return too.

I’m not entirely sure how that would be calculated.

Unless the OP's GC train was cancelled (they don't say it was) nothing is due at all.

The ticket is partly used and assuming it allowed break of journey the OP could still use the unused bit, though.

Edit: oh, it was used on TPE on which it wasn't valid. I absolutely would not pursue that as to do so would incriminate the OP and could result in the need to pay a settlement for travel without a valid ticket on TPE.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Seems the initial part of the return journey, i.e the leg from Northallerton to York was effectively made with no valid ticket held? Ought some fare now be due for that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems the initial part of the return journey, i.e the leg from Northallerton to York was effectively made with no valid ticket held? Ought some fare now be due for that?

If the OP draws attention to this a letter asking for a settlement to avoid prosecution is not at all unlikely.

 

[bunny247]

Unless the OP's GC train was cancelled (they don't say it was) nothing is due at all.

The ticket is partly used and assuming it allowed break of journey the OP could still use the unused bit, though.

Hi there - thank you very much for the responses here. You are correct that there was no cancelled train. My return ticket was an open return valid on any GC train from Northallerton to London KC. I am surprised because I am being told by trainline that I am ineligible for a refund because my ticket that I was incorrectly trying to use on the LNER train from York to London KC was “scanned” by the ticket inspector on that train

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hi there - thank you very much for the responses here. You are correct that there was no cancelled train. My return ticket was an open return valid on any GC train from Northallerton to London KC. I am surprised because I am being told by trainline that I am ineligible for a refund because my ticket that I was incorrectly trying to use on the LNER train from York to London KC was “scanned” by the ticket inspector on that train

Hang on, this is a return ticket, the use of the outward is enough to render it not fully refundable. Theoretically it could be refunded down to a single but you'd need to go through customer services for that.

As you travelled without a valid ticket on the TPE train (I misread and thought this was accepted - I assume it in fact wasn't inspected?) I wouldn't pursue this, it could end up costing you a lot more.

It's a shame you didn't buy a full new ticket for the entire journey from LNER. Then you might have got somewhere. Though equally that would have cost a load more, eating away at any possible refund.

 

[bunny247]

If the OP draws attention to this a letter asking for a settlement to avoid prosecution is not at all unlikely.

Fair and valid! In that regards it may be wise for me to press the issue with trainline no further.

I’d still be interested in finding out, just in understanding the general principle, why the refund request is invalid. But practically it’s probably something I shouldn’t pursue…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Hang on, this is a return ticket, the use of the outward is enough to render it not fully refundable. Theoretically it could be refunded down to a single but you'd need to go through customer services for that.

As you travelled without a valid ticket on the TPE train (I misread and thought this was accepted - I assume it in fact wasn't inspected?) I wouldn't pursue this, it could end up costing you a lot more.

It's a shame you didn't buy a full new ticket for the entire journey from LNER. Then you might have got somewhere. Though equally that would have cost a load more, eating away at any possible refund.

You are correct that the TPE ticket was not inspected!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair and valid! In that regards it may be wise for me to press the issue with trainline no further.

I’d still be interested in finding out, just in understanding the general principle, why the refund request is invalid. But practically it’s probably something I shouldn’t pursue…

A scan doesn't in and of itself render a ticket non refundable - you might for instance have gone through a gateline then abandoned the journey due to a cancellation. However because of the level of fraudulent refunds Trainline make it very hard to get a refund if there's been a scan. Though they should do a refund if you could prove you had another ticket for your full journey, in this case you didn't.

 

[bunny247]

A scan doesn't in and of itself render a ticket non refundable - you might for instance have gone through a gateline then abandoned the journey due to a cancellation. However because of the level of fraudulent refunds Trainline make it very hard to get a refund if there's been a scan. Though they should do a refund if you could prove you had another ticket for your full journey, in this case you didn't.

That’s interesting to know. The customer service agent on trainline stated that refund was ineligible due to the ticket being scanned - so it is good to know that this is not the case. Either way I made plenty of mistakes today (including not buying a new ticket for the entire Northallerton to London KC journey) so I will chalk it up to experience and not pursue this further.

Really do appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me and your thorough responses. This is my first time using these forums and I had always heard elsewhere that the contributors were very helpful - and I am very pleased to find out that this reputation is well earned

Hope all enjoy the remainder of your Sunday evenings!

 

[gray1404]

I am of the view that a refund is due.

The return portion remains wholly unused and therefore a refund is due minus an admin fee. I would respond to Trainline stating this and saying that following the scan you were informed your ticket was not valid on LNER so purchased a new ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am of the view that a refund is due.

The return portion remains wholly unused and therefore a refund is due minus an admin fee. I would respond to Trainline stating this and saying that following the scan you were informed your ticket was not valid on LNER so purchased a new ticket.

Technically it is (in the value of return - single - admin fee), but drawing attention to having travelled (valid) ticketless on TPE is in my view unwise.

The OP could easily be in a far worse position here.

 

[island]

A refund could be claimed for the amount of £52, being the difference between the single and return fares less the £5 fee, and if evidence of the alternative ticket used were provided I am sure Trainline would review its decision. As Bletchleyite correctly points out this would be liable to draw attention to the fact the OP travelled without a ticket from Northallerton to York. It seems to me that the best action would be to leave well enough alone.

It's a shame you didn't buy a full new ticket for the entire journey from LNER. Then you might have got somewhere. Though equally that would have cost a load more, eating away at any possible refund.

It would have been £66.10 more to buy the full new ticket, which would in fact have exceeded the refund claimable on the GC ticket.