Why should any development be to make life easier for passengers? They're the only reason bus services exist.
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First West Yorkshire & York discussion
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YorkRailFan
Established Member
dodecahedron67
Member
This weekend for Ebor races only
36647 also over
Whisky Papa
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I used the 591/2 locally in Todmorden on Saturday for the first time in a while, and noticed every bus was a single-decker - this was the final day of the 'old' timetable. Do I take it we have reverted to single-deck operation, after doubles were brought in for the previous changes (ie cuts!) in February?
The timetable changes for the 590-2 seem to have been cancelled at Vosa. Various systems are showing a mix of old and new timetables.
A lot of systems (like bustimes.org) are still showing the old times for some of the routes that are supposed have changed last weekend (like the 586).
Whisky Papa
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Oh, that's interesting. I did look at Metro's website yesterday for a possible trip to Hebden Bridge this evening, and that definitely had the new one on. I won't be making the trip out this evening (partly on the reduced bus timetable being rather inconveniently timed) and I've not been out today so I can't report what's actually running.
Leyland Bus
Established Member
Virgin Media called, they want their logo back... 
I rarely use buses in York, but I saw this pop up in the York Press:
www.yorkpress.co.uk
I see the York Bus map still shows the 10 as going via Leeman Road.
I don't quite get the fuss about no longer having a direct bus from Leeman Road to Manor School, given Leeman Road is much closer to Millthorpe School, which is also the catchment school for that entire area, so I suspect that only affects a tiny number of students who have chosen to go to a more distant school.
Of course, no mention is ever made of places that benefit, e.g. there is now a more frequent service along Holgate Road, which has various B&Bs and workplaces along it, as well as probably serving a larger catchment area of residents along that road than Leeman Road.
Anger as new single-decker electric buses too tall to fit under York bridge
Residents in a York suburb have lost a bus service because First’s new electric single-decker buses are too tall to go under a bridge, a…
www.yorkpress.co.uk
However, a commenter has replied:
So, who is right? (I am sure @dodecahedron67 will have some thoughts on this)
I see the York Bus map still shows the 10 as going via Leeman Road.
I don't quite get the fuss about no longer having a direct bus from Leeman Road to Manor School, given Leeman Road is much closer to Millthorpe School, which is also the catchment school for that entire area, so I suspect that only affects a tiny number of students who have chosen to go to a more distant school.
Of course, no mention is ever made of places that benefit, e.g. there is now a more frequent service along Holgate Road, which has various B&Bs and workplaces along it, as well as probably serving a larger catchment area of residents along that road than Leeman Road.
YorkRailFan
Established Member
The 19, 30 and 31X (note only Reliance operated 31X use Leeman Road) all only operate into York using Leeman Road, not out of York. But, as the commenter says, the 59 does provide a regular service along Leeman Road.
The 10 now also serves York Station, which comes with the obvious benefits for passengers.
dodecahedron67
Member
I do indeed have some thoughts; the changes are indisputably better.
They went from a service every 40min (30 historically) on the 10 to a service every 15min on the 59.
The 10 now serves York Rail Station & Blossom St which are far bigger destinations than Leeman Road, and anyone wanting the Railway Museum (the only real destination on Leeman Road) can get off and walk through York Station.
It is simply just people moaning for the sake of moaning, and some of them along the Poppleton half of the 10 route are the absolute worst for moaning!
A few months ago I was working up at Poppy Bar, ran as an additional bus back to town. Picked up an old woman at Wheatlands/Langley Gate and she spent the whole way into town moaning about how the 10 should’ve never been allowed to be re-routed away from the A59 along Low Poppleton Lane - this happened years ago and it serves an industrial park and a new housing development going that way! All because it no longer stopped right outside her house…
Entitled comes to mind…
They went from a service every 40min (30 historically) on the 10 to a service every 15min on the 59.
The 10 now serves York Rail Station & Blossom St which are far bigger destinations than Leeman Road, and anyone wanting the Railway Museum (the only real destination on Leeman Road) can get off and walk through York Station.
It is simply just people moaning for the sake of moaning, and some of them along the Poppleton half of the 10 route are the absolute worst for moaning!
A few months ago I was working up at Poppy Bar, ran as an additional bus back to town. Picked up an old woman at Wheatlands/Langley Gate and she spent the whole way into town moaning about how the 10 should’ve never been allowed to be re-routed away from the A59 along Low Poppleton Lane - this happened years ago and it serves an industrial park and a new housing development going that way! All because it no longer stopped right outside her house…
Entitled comes to mind…
stevieinselby
Established Member
The Leeman Road area has the 59 running every 15 minutes during the daytime between York city centre and Poppleton Bar P&R, and the 10L running about every hour in the evening between Stamford Bridge, York city centre and Poppleton village, as well as occasional services running a one-way loop inbound from the A19 corridor.I rarely use buses in York, but I saw this pop up in the York Press:
Anger as new single-decker electric buses too tall to fit under York bridge
Residents in a York suburb have lost a bus service because First’s new electric single-decker buses are too tall to go under a bridge, a…
However, a commenter has replied:
So, who is right? (I am sure @dodecahedron67 will have some thoughts on this)
I see the York Bus map still shows the 10 as going via Leeman Road.
I don't quite get the fuss about no longer having a direct bus from Leeman Road to Manor School, given Leeman Road is much closer to Millthorpe School, which is also the catchment school for that entire area, so I suspect that only affects a tiny number of students who have chosen to go to a more distant school.
Of course, no mention is ever made of places that benefit, e.g. there is now a more frequent service along Holgate Road, which has various B&Bs and workplaces along it, as well as probably serving a larger catchment area of residents along that road than Leeman Road.
The 59 stops on the main road a short walk from Manor School.
Basically it is people moaning for the sake of moaning. Leeman Road has as good a bus service as it can reasonably expect.
The daytime service on the 10 uses Kites, which can't fit under the rail bridge on Leeman Road. In the evening, it switches to the 10L using Versas, which do fit under the bridge and so can retain a service to Leeman Road – but they aren't up to the demanding diagrams of running the 10 all day long.
noddingdonkey
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Am I to cynical to suggest that the all night 72, linking two city centres rather than places that people live and want to get home to, looks like an exercise in "proving" a lack of demand for overnight services?
Leedsbusman
Member
Yes that’s cynical.
There are plenty of residential areas on the 72 but the logic of interurban night buses is very sound. It’s far better value to for people in Bradford to bus it back to Bradford then get a cab home then get a cab all the way home.
That’s probably why Bee Network has picked two inter urban routes for its 24/7 pilot rather than a short run to the nearest housing estate. Similar with Transdev’s Witchway.
Operators tend not to waste money trying to prove it won’t work.
It's a route that's had a previous Night service in the late 90s - the service ran on the 72 route between Leeds and Bradford and then the 576 route between Bradford and Halifax, running hourly for 4 journeys on Friday and Saturday nights.
Tracking is now working on bustimes.org . Definitely running the new times.
As predicted the new times towards Burnley are very loose. I can't find any bus (though some didn't track properly) which took more than 13 minutes for Mereclough to Burnley. Which fits with the formerly timetabled 12 minutes, but not the new times.
Today's winner for early running is either this one, arriving 10 minutes early
Vehicles – 591 – bustimes.org
or this, last tracked just around the corner from the bus station 13 minutes before it's scheduled arrival
Vehicles – 591 – bustimes.org
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Lots of people live on the route of the 72, but the real value will be in not having to take a taxi from Leeds back to Bradford. It’s often cheaper to get a hotel in Leeds than do that.
Indeed. The 72 has run as often as every 8 minutes pre-pandemic, which isn't bad given that during the day there's 6 trains an hour from Leeds to Bradford (though split between the 2 Bradford stations).
I've not seen any indication of whether there's any restrictions on the use of season tickets (MCards or First's own) on overnight journeys.
And of course the trains don't run all night. Lots of night buses in London cover journeys that are provided for by the tube during the day.
Baxenden Bank
Established Member
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- 4,749
And whatever you do, don't rely on the WY Metro timetable for a route description, or any indication in the times bank that there are now two routes into Burnley!Tracking is now working on bustimes.org . Definitely running the new times.
As predicted the new times towards Burnley are very loose. I can't find any bus (though some didn't track properly) which took more than 13 minutes for Mereclough to Burnley. Which fits with the formerly timetabled 12 minutes, but not the new times.
Today's winner for early running is either this one, arriving 10 minutes early
Vehicles – 591 – bustimes.org
bustimes.org
or this, last tracked just around the corner from the bus station 13 minutes before it's scheduled arrival
That one also stopped for 4 minutes at Portsmouth, and that's after recovering from running late all the way from Halifax to Todmorden.Vehicles – 591 – bustimes.org
My prediction is that the route will go hourly, at least beyond Portsmouth to Burnley which is what First put forward in their consultation proposals. Just as soon as passengers on the section of route through Brunshaw and Mereclough 'adjust' to their reduced service.
Adjust = buying a car and such like.
First Transforming Travel.
kewal_7770
Member
The fuss about the no10 and Leeman Rd is that the service is 'at approx 15 min intervals' not a fixed 15 min interval. It does not allow passengers off after Water End. I wanted to get off at the Fire Station. The driver refused to stop and took me to the Ring Rd from where I had to walk back as the service does not pick up until the first stop after Water End in bound. Most of the passengers are elderly and are unable to walk very far. Not a very local passenger orientated service
dodecahedron67
Member
Given the 59 is one of the few services to be operated at a clockface timetable (albeit with running time variations peak/off peak), the ‘approx 15 min’ is false.
As for not stopping apart from Leeman Road, the number of passengers that actually make Malvern Ave - Leeman Road journeys is so so slim.
I’m sorry that you can’t read a bus timetable and expected the driver to drop you off where you liked though…
Baxenden Bank
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These are the stops for the 59, according to bustimes.org, data supplied by Firstbus 29 August.
| Upper Poppleton Poppleton Bar Park & Ride |
| Nether Poppleton, opp Langley Gate |
| Clifton Sailsbury Road (opp 13) |
| Clifton Kingsland Terrace |
| Clifton Carleton Street (opp.) |
| National Railway Museum (West Entrance) |
| York Royal Mail Offices (RL) |
| York Rougier Street (Setting Down Only) |
| York Micklegate (CJ) |
| York Clifford Street (TD) |
| York Station Road (CD) |
| York Station Rise (RK) |
| National Railway Museum (Main Entrance) |
| National Railway Museum NRM Car Park |
| Clifton, o/s Carleton Street |
| Clifton Livingstone Street |
| Clifton Salisbury Road (o/s 9) |
| Upper Poppleton, adj Langley Gate |
| Upper Poppleton Poppleton Bar Park & Ride |
Whisky Papa
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The wrong route details for the 592 are pretty shocking, and even worse really is the fact that the 592 is still shown as going via Mereclough in the timings, which I suspect more people will look at.
Bad enough to have such a misjudged timetable put in place, but to get the publicity so wrong is pretty unforgiveable.
EDIT - just checked First's own information, and the 592 is timed at 'Walk Mill, The Gordon Lennox' which might be a little more helpful if the pub hadn't been closed and demolished some years ago!
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dodecahedron67
Member
No, it still operates like this.
Poppy Bar - Wheatlands - Leeman Road (all stops) - City Centre and reverse
The 59 does not, and is not supposed to, stop at any stops on Boroughbridge Road apart from Wheatlands/Langley Gate
There is a strong case for the 59 stopping at the Fire Station. It would cut a long gap between two bus stops but it would also provide a more frequent service to and from York to that stop. Anything that makes public transport more attractive at little or no cost is to be welcomed. I think all York’s P&R services need to have the bus stops served looked at. I know there are some issues with the 3.
YorkRailFan
Established Member
The 3 is often full and standing during rush hour with bus after bus being packed, leaving no capacity onboard for it to stop elsewhere. Even on weekends, the service is busy. The 3 passes by my local bus stop, nonstop, but the 4 stops every 10 minutes, plus a variety of other services like Coastliner, 12, 13 and the 37 (although the last one is a limited service in comparison). All of the stops the 3 doesn't stop at have a decent service into York, even without the 4, with them having up to 4 buses an hour (sometimes 5) to get them into York, or between Tesco and their local bus stop.
I would like it if there were increases in capacity (such as on the 12 to half-hourly) but the 3 isn't the viable way to do it, in my opinion, as its already busy serving its nonstop route. The express nature of the 3 also makes using the Park & Ride at Askham more attractive, as a stopping service would slow down journey times meaning driving is faster. The attractiveness of Askham to drivers is to be able to park somewhere outside of York, and get an express bus into the city centre.
Leedsbusman
Member
It’s strange that it doesn’t stop. Since it first started the community has been requesting it as it would improve their service. Looking at a couple of journeys on Friday the all stops 10 only took a minute longer than the non stop 59 did on the common section. There are only five stops missed. There is 20 minutes layover so there’s scope in the cycle.
Could it be due to potential capacity issues on the Versas with potential standing room only occurring or that the loss in custom for the 10 would affect its viability ?