Mistakenly used someone’s freedom pass

[bee]

No chance.

No chance of not going to prison/Jail or no chance that I would end up going Prison/Jail. Im really terrified I am currently downloading all the transactions on my bank shows how often I used TFL for the past 3 months. I have took a picture of the drawer and how I carry the same wallet. I know it’s not enough evidence but thats what I can think off at the moment.


Im not providing evidence to TFL so i don’t have to pay the fine. I want to show TFL and pay the fine, but I don't want the case to be long I wish they could just send me the penalty and I would pay it off straight away.


I just want to know what type of letter should I expect to receive from TFL, and what options do I have to when I reply to them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

This sounds similar to another case a month or so ago. If TfL were to look at the usage of Apple Pay, your student oyster and the freedom pass, would it look like you were using Apple Pay/your student oyster in the mornings, and the Freedom pass in the afternoons/evenings for the return journey?

Yes, On my bank it does show I had TFL transactions on the same day which I used to go to my appointment and shows the days before too. I do use my apple pay and all transactions are available.

Early morning around 10am and the TFL saw the oyster card with me around evening

 

[greyman42]

No chance of not going to prison/Jail or no chance that I would end up going Prison/Jail. Im really terrified I am currently downloading all the transactions on my bank shows how often I used TFL for the past 3 months. I have took a picture of the drawer and how I carry the same wallet. I know it’s not enough evidence but thats what I can think off at the moment.

There is no chance of you going to prison for this.

 

[najaB]

No chance of not going to prison/Jail or no chance that I would end up going Prison/Jail.

Unless there's a lot more to this than you have told us, there is zero chance of receiving a custodial sentence.

 

[bee]

If I received a letter from TFL could I write them this to replay to the plea:


Dear TFL Prosecutions Department,

I wish to express my gratitude for your correspondence dated [insert date]. I am writing to address the matter of my regrettable use of a Freedom Pass that was not my own on the evening of 3rd September at Fulham Broadway Station. I take full responsibility for my actions and acknowledge that this lapse in judgment should never have occurred.

On the day in question, I mistakenly took my mother’s Freedom Pass instead of my Student Oyster card. My mother and I both store our Oyster cards in identical pink wallets, which are kept together in the same drawer alongside other items such as fobs and mailbox keys. Unfortunately, I inadvertently picked up her wallet, believing it to be mine, and only became aware of the error when it was brought to my attention by a TfL officer.

Ordinarily, I use my Student Oyster card during term time, depending on my university timetable. Should my usage of public transport be minimal during a given month, I often find it more cost-effective to use Apple Pay rather than opting for a monthly payment on my Student 18+ Oyster card. My bank transactions consistently reflect my commitment to paying the appropriate fare to TfL.

In preparation for the upcoming university term, I intended to check the balance on my Student Oyster card and top it up if necessary. Earlier that morning, at approximately 10:39 a.m., I used Apple Pay to attend an appointment, as documented in my bank transactions. Upon returning home, I mistakenly took my mother’s Freedom Pass from the drawer, assuming it was my Student Oyster card, and subsequently travelled to Regent's Park. I had planned to check the balance and top it up on my return journey. However, when I tapped out at —— Station, I was approached by a TfL officer when I realised I used my mother’s Freedom Pass. My mother was entirely unaware of this situation.

I fully understood that this mistake could have been avoided with greater vigilance, and I deeply regret not verifying the card prior to use.

As a full-time university 3rd year student, with aspirations of a future career within the NHS, whilst also balancing a job and a voluntary role, I am particularly concerned about the potential repercussions this incident may have on my academic progress and future career prospects. To ensure such an error does not recur, I have now changed the my wallet and will store it separately from my mother’s.

I wish to extend my most sincere apologies to Transport for London, the local council, and the wider public. I fully recognise the importance of adhering to travel regulations and deeply regret any inconvenience my actions may have caused. I am fully prepared to pay any penalty that I owe to TfL and sincerely hope that this matter can be resolved amicably.

Yours faithfully,

 

[najaB]

It's about twice as long as it should be. Cut out the waffle - for example, they don't care what's in the drawer.

 

[Manak]

I think these are the fees for the work that Manak will carry out.

If Manak is successful then any payment to TfL will be on top. As has been stated earlier TfL do not offer out of court settlements. I wonder if the way the fee is described by Manak is misleading the OP inadvertently.

The OP confirmed she did not contact MANAK solicitors. I would be grateful if this post could be edited to reflect that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

I saw i have contacted the wrong company. My fault, im just so distressed and not sure what to do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==


Thats true thats why I’m ready to pay penalty and the price of the journey.

Thank you for confirming. Please edit your posts to reflect that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

Are Manak saying they can settle this out of court by paying money? TfL make it very clear this doesn’t happen, and a FOI request suggests the same - that cases are never settled out of court financially.


Why would they care about this? They caught you committing the offence.

Are Manak saying they can settle this out of court by paying money? TfL make it very clear this doesn’t happen, and a FOI request suggests the same - that cases are never settled out of court financially.


Why would they care about this? They caught you committing the offence.

OP confirmed she did not contact us. Please edit your post to reflect that.

 

[bee]

The OP confirmed she did not contact MANAK solicitors. I would be grateful if this post could be edited to reflect that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==


Thank you for confirming. Please edit your posts to reflect that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==




OP confirmed she did not contact us. Please edit your post to reflect that.

I have edited the post, apologies and thank you for understanding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

It's about twice as long as it should be. Cut out the waffle - for example, they don't care what's in the drawer.

Thank you for your reply I truly appreciate the help.

Dear TFL Prosecutions Department,



I wish to express my gratitude for your correspondence dated [insert date]. I am writing to address the matter of my regrettable use of a Freedom Pass that was not my own on the evening of 3rd September at —- Station. I take full responsibility for my actions and acknowledge that this lapse in judgment should never have occurred.



On the day in question, I mistakenly took my mother’s Freedom Pass instead of my Student Oyster card. As we store our cards in identical pink wallets, which are kept together in the same drawer. Unfortunately, I inadvertently picked up her wallet, believing it to be mine, and only became aware of the error when it was brought to my attention by a TfL officer.



I typically use my Student Oyster card during term time, but when my travel is minimal, I find it more cost-effective to use Apple Pay instead of monthly payments on my student oyster card. My bank transactions show that I consistently pay the appropriate fare to TfL reflect my commitment to paying the appropriate fare to TfL.



In preparation for the university term, I planned to check and top up my Student Oyster card. That morning, I used Apple Pay for an appointment, as shown in my bank transactions. When I returned home, I mistakenly took my mother’s Freedom Pass instead of my Student Oyster card and used it to travel to Regent's Park. I intended to check and top up my card on my return, but realised my mistake when a TfL officer approached me at ——- Station. My mother was entirely unaware of this situation.



I fully understood that this mistake could have been avoided with greater vigilance, and I deeply regret not verifying the card prior to use.



As a third-year university student with plans for a career in the NHS, and while balancing a job and volunteer work, I am concerned about how this incident might affect my academic progress and future career. To prevent a repeat of this mistake, I have now changed and separated my wallet from my mother’s.



I wish to extend my most sincere apologies to Transport for London, the local council, and the wider public. I fully recognise the importance of adhering to travel regulations and deeply regret any inconvenience my actions may have caused. I am fully prepared to pay any penalty that I owe to TfL and sincerely hope that this matter can be resolved amicably.



Yours faithfully,

 

[SuspectUsual]

I wish to express my gratitude for your correspondence

I'm guessing you've used AI to help write this? This is just one example of a few - I'd be stunned if you'd use a phrase like this if you were talking to someone. What's wrong with "thank you for your letter"? Just write as you'd speak!

lapse in judgment

A mistake isn't a lapse in judgement

I inadvertently picked up her wallet, believing it to be mine

How did you believe it was yours if they're identical?




Sorry if this seems harsh, but I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of TfL, who will have heard stuff like this a thousand times before

 

[najaB]

What's wrong with "thank you for your letter"? Just write as you'd speak!

And also as if you had to say everything in less than a minute!

 

[notmyrealname]

Is it worth the OP spelling out how they plan to avoid using the wrong card in the future, to show TfL that the problem won't happen again?

 

[najaB]

Is it worth the OP spelling out how they plan to avoid using the wrong card in the future, to show TfL that the problem won't happen again?

Yes, definitely.

 

[bee]

Many thanks for the help, I thought I must sound posh and very professional.

Dear TFL Prosecutions Department



Reference: 000000


Thank you for your letter dated 00/00/00. I am writing to address the matter concerning my use of Freedom Pass that was not mine. I take full responsibility for my actions and am aware that this mistake should not have happened.

On September 3rd, at 10:39 a.m., I used Apple Pay to travel to my appointment, as shown in my bank transactions. After returning home and preparing for the upcoming university term, I intended to check the balance on my Student Oyster card and top it up if necessary, after visiting the park.

The 18+ Student Oyster card offers discounts on weekly and monthly season tickets. Since I don't commute daily to university during the summer, it's cheaper for me to use Apple Pay instead of purchasing a season ticket. Therefore, I used apple pay for the morning.

On the afternoon. Unfortunately, I mistakenly grabbed my mother’s Freedom Pass from the drawer, thinking it was my Student Oyster card as both of us have matching pink card wallet, then I went to Regent's Park. I had planned to check the balance and top up my student oyster card on my way to home. I assumed I was carrying my student card with me. However, I met a TFL officer on my way back.

I fully understand that this mistake could have been avoided with greater care, and I deeply regret not verifying the card prior to use. To prevent this from happening again I have changed the shape and colour of my card holder wallet and will keep it safe away from my mum’s card.

As a third-year university student with plans for a career in the NHS, and while balancing a job and volunteer work, I am concerned about the possibilities of this incident might affect my academic progress and future career. To prevent a repeat of this mistake, I have now changed and separated my wallet from my mother’s which she wasn’t aware of.

I would like to extend my most sincere apologies to Transport for London, the local council, and the wider public. I fully recognise the importance of adhering to travel regulations and deeply regret any inconvenience my actions may have caused. I am fully prepared to pay any penalty that I owe to TfL and sincerely hope that this matter can be resolved amicably.



Yours faithfully,

Name name

 

[AlterEgo]

According to your story, you had not topped up your student Oyster which is why you used Apple Pay (this still doesn’t make sense, but park that for now).

Why did you tap what you thought was your student Oyster at Fulham Broadway then? You hadn’t topped it up and surely didn’t think it had any credit on it - else you’d have used it in the morning anyway. Why not just top it up in the morning?

Nothing about your story makes any sense and the “we keep a Freedom Pass and my paid-for Oyster in the same drawer in identical wallets and no I don’t check which one is which and even though it’s a 50/50 chance of getting it right I also got caught the first time I used it” doesn’t pass the Swiss Cheese test.

They have seen it all before, as have we on this forum.

 

[bee]

According to your story, you had not topped up your student Oyster which is why you used Apple Pay (this still doesn’t make sense, but park that for now).

Why did you tap what you thought was your student Oyster at Fulham Broadway then? You hadn’t topped it up and surely didn’t think it had any credit on it - else you’d have used it in the morning anyway. Why not just top it up in the morning?

Nothing about your story makes any sense and the “we keep a Freedom Pass and my paid-for Oyster in the same drawer in identical wallets and no I don’t check which one is which and even though it’s a 50/50 chance of getting it right I also got caught the first time I used it” doesn’t pass the Swiss Cheese test.

They have seen it all before, as have we on this forum.

Thank you for the response.

I had my student oyster card for years ago and use it every year I assumed it would had credit on it.

Im not trying to get away from paying penalty i want to tell my side of the story and hope it won’t go into my criminal record

 

[AlterEgo]

I had my student oyster card for years ago and use it every year I assumed it would had credit on it.

Why didn’t you use it in the morning then? It’s discounted. Why wouldn’t you top it up?

These are questions an investigator will ask themselves and what you’ve said doesn’t make much sense.

 

[bee]

Why didn’t you use it in the morning then? It’s discounted. Why wouldn’t you top it up?

These are questions an investigator will ask themselves and what you’ve said doesn’t make much sense.

I left the house early and when i came home I wanted to go to the park so i thought since im leaving i will take my student oyster card to top it up as my universe first term is coming up

 

[John R]

Thank you for the response.

I had my student oyster card for years ago and use it every year I assumed it would had credit on it.

Im not trying to get away from paying penalty i want to tell my side of the story and hope it won’t go into my criminal record

The problem is that “your side of the story” does not make sense and bluntly will read to the investigator like a series of untrue statements.

If we’ve picked big holes in it, you can be sure TfL will, which is likely to reduce even further the slim chance you have of getting them to agree not to prosecute you.

 

[bee]

The problem is that “your side of the story” does not make sense and bluntly will read to the investigator like a series of untrue statements.

If we’ve picked big holes in it, you can be sure TfL will, which is likely to reduce even further the slim chance you have of getting them to agree not to prosecute you.

The 18+ Student Oyster card offers discounts on weekly and monthly season tickets. Since I don't commute daily to university during the summer, it's cheaper for me to use Apple Pay instead of purchasing a season ticket. I mistakenly assumed my Student Oyster had credit and take full responsibility for not checking it before my journey. To prevent this from happening I will login to my account and check my balance or tap my card at the station before using it.

 

[John R]

The 18+ Student Oyster card offers discounts on weekly and monthly season tickets. Since I don't commute daily to university during the summer, it's cheaper for me to use Apple Pay instead of purchasing a season ticket. I mistakenly assumed my Student Oyster had credit and take full responsibility for not checking it before my journey. To prevent this from happening I will login to my account and check my balance or tap my card at the station before using it.

You don’t have to persuade us, you have to persuade the investigator, but several people here have said your story doesn’t make sense, so I doubt the investigator will believe it either.

And even if they do, it’s unlikely to change the outcome.

 

[bee]

You don’t have to persuade us, you have to persuade the investigator, but several people here have said your story doesn’t make sense, so I doubt the investigator will believe it either.

And even if they do, it’s unlikely to change the outcome.

What would you advise me to do

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

Are these options correct regarding the TFL letter:

1) Plead guilty, and not turn up to court
2) Plead guilty and go to court
3) Plead not guilty and provide witnesses

 

[najaB]

Are these options correct regarding the TFL letter:

1) Plead guilty, and not turn up to court
2) Plead guilty and go to court
3) Plead not guilty and provide witnesses

The first letter you receive from TfL won't require you to plead, it will be a 'verification letter' which is your opportunity to correct any facts and lay out your argument for why they shouldn't proceed with a prosecution.

As to pleading not guilty (if they do decide to prosecute): did you use your mother's pass? If the answer is 'yes' then you are guilty of the Byelaw offence, so I'm not sure what you expect your witnesses to say that would change the facts.

 

[bee]

The first letter you receive from TfL won't require you to plead, it will be a 'verification letter' which is your opportunity to correct any facts and lay out your argument for why they shouldn't proceed with a prosecution.

As to pleading not guilty (if they do decide to prosecute): did you use your mother's pass? If the answer is 'yes' then you are guilty of the Byelaw offence, so I'm not sure what you expect your witnesses to say that would change the facts.

If they decided to proceed with a prosecution. Would saying guilty take me to court.

 

[AlterEgo]

If they decided to proceed with a prosecution. Would saying guilty take me to court.

You wouldn’t need to attend (unless they discover more offences, which you may ask to be taken into consideration) but pleading guilty means you accept you are guilty of the offence and you will then be convicted and fined by the magistrates court. There can be no doubt you are guilty of the offence, which does not require intent to be proven.

 

[najaB]

If they decided to proceed with a prosecution. Would saying guilty take me to court.

No. If you plead guilty then you won't have to attend court, and any fine that's imposed will be reduced by up to one third.

 

[danielnez1]

Yes, On my bank it does show I had TFL transactions on the same day which I used to go to my appointment and shows the days before too. I do use my apple pay and all transactions are available.

Early morning around 10am and the TFL saw the oyster card with me around evening

That did not specifically answer my question. If TfL deduce that you have been legitimately using your Student Oyster or Apple Pay to pay for journeys in the morning when a Freedom Pass would not be valid, but on the same day using a Freedom Pass for a later journey that day (i.e back to your origin station), even if that happened once, it will look very suspect to them.

As far as I'm aware, none of us posting work for TfL prosecutions, but the questions we are asking are the sort of the initial questions they will likely be wondering - they deal with thousands of such cases and have heard every sort of story.

In my profession, I have to deal with academic misconduct/disciplinary cases, and if a statement does not make sense, all the time there is more too it and it is not the total truth. It is best to be honest, rather than to dig yourself into a deeper hole.

 

[bee]

That did not specifically answer my question. If TfL deduce that you have been legitimately using your Student Oyster or Apple Pay to pay for journeys in the morning when a Freedom Pass would not be valid, but on the same day using a Freedom Pass for a later journey that day (i.e back to your origin station), even if that happened once, it will look very suspect to them.

As far as I'm aware, none of us posting work for TfL prosecutions, but the questions we are asking are the sort of the initial questions they will likely be wondering - they deal with thousands of such cases and have heard every sort of story.

In my profession, I have to deal with academic misconduct/disciplinary cases, and if a statement does not make sense, all the time there is more too it and it is not the total truth. It is best to be honest, rather than to dig yourself into a deeper hole.

I appreciate your reply to this, I wrote down a clearer Vinson of the story and thinking this as a draft if I was to send TFL a letter:

Dear TFL Prosecutions Department



Reference: 000000



Thank you for your letter dated 00/00/00. I am writing to address the matter concerning my use of Freedom Pass that was not mine. I take full responsibility for my actions and am aware that this mistake should not have happened.



On September 3rd, at 10:39 a.m., I used Apple Pay to travel to my appointment, as shown in my bank transactions. After returning home and preparing for the upcoming university term, I intended to check the balance on my Student Oyster card and top it up if necessary, after visiting the park.



The 18+ Student Oyster card offers discounts on weekly and monthly season tickets. Since I don't commute daily to university during the summer, it's cheaper for me to use Apple Pay instead of purchasing a season ticket. Therefore, I used apple pay for the morning.



On the afternoon. Unfortunately, I mistakenly grabbed my mother’s Freedom Pass from the drawer, thinking it was my Student Oyster card as both of us have matching pink card wallet, then I went to Regent's Park. I had planned to check the balance and top up my student oyster card on my way to home. I assumed I was carrying my student card with me. However, I met a TFL officer on my way back.



I fully understand that this mistake should have been avoided with greater care, and I deeply regret not verifying the card prior to use. To prevent this from happening again, I have changed the wallet I use for my oyster card to a clear wallet to allow me to see through that I am holding the correct card. I will keep my oyster card in a safe place separated from my mum’s card, and make sure to look at my oyster card before using any type of transportation.



As a third-year university student with plans for a career in the NHS, and while balancing a job and volunteering role, I am concerned about the possibilities of this incident might affect my academic progress and future career. I truly regret my actions I made. To prevent a repeat of this mistake, I will check if I’m holding the correct student oyster card that belongs to me before leaving the house and take a greater care and pay attention to this matter.



I would like to extend my most sincere apologies to Transport for London, the local council, and the wider public. I fully recognise the importance of adhering to travel regulations and deeply regret any inconvenience my actions may have caused. I am fully prepared to pay any penalty that I owe to TfL and sincerely hope that this matter can be resolved amicably.

Yours faithfully,
Name surname


I would include a bank statement where I highlighted every time I used TFL for the past 3 months of the date of the incident. Which shows a regular use of TFL.

I will provide a picture of my 18+ oyster card.

I know these might not be enough or vailed, but I can’t think of more evidence.

I am providing them evidence not to run away from paying penalty nor to challenge their letter. But to show my side and alongside the email to acknowledge the mistake.


Based of your expertise, what would you advise me to change or add to the letter.

Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

So you are really doubling down on this defence despite multiple posters explaining how relatively far fetched it is? Well, good luck to you.

 

[soil]

I have no idea why you keep blathering on about Apple Pay, Apple Pay is completely irrelevant and is never possibly cheaper than the Student Oyster card which you could just top up with credit, and in any case you could load a 16-25 railcard discount onto the Student Oyster card (although a student oyster card is not required)

It's illogical, and given that you have committed a strict liability criminal offence it wouldn't make sense for them to follow your irrelevant argument

I'm also confused about the sum of £3.50. What does this represent? One journey? Two journeys? By what mode of transportation or zones?

Your problem is that while it's perfectly plausible to have a Student Oyster card with no railcard discount, and not really use it because contactless is more convenient, it doesn't make sense at all to use the contactless in the morning and the oyster card in the afternoon. It's also not really clear why you would be topping up the Student Oyster card when you have made it clear that you only use it when you want to buy weekly/monthly travelcards, and don't have a railcard discount so therefore there is no reason for you to top it up with credit, only to buy travelcards with it. In any case even if your intention was to 'check' your oyster card, there doesn't seem any good reason why you would also use it for travel, when you had already travelled by contactless.

None of this makes sense at all, and the reasonable conclusion would be that you intended to avoid the fare using the freedom pass.

I can see an 'I wanted to make a journey and accidentally picked up the wrong oyster card' argument, but all the other text is only harming your case.

 

[Titfield]

I see your choices as follows:

A) employ a solicitor such as Manak. Two possible outcomes: (1) TfL accept the representations and issue a warning. (2) TfL do not accept representation and it goes to court.
B) deal directly with TfL. (1) TfL accept the representations and issue a warning. (2) TfL do not accept representation and it goes to court.

The probability of the outcomes though imho are very different. Manak claim a good success rate of 75% warning issued.

If you deal direct with TfL I imagine that the success rate of getting a warning (based on their published policy) is probably less than 5%.

I think your choice needs to be guided by balancing the cost of Manak (and risk of failure say 25%) against how important not getting a criminal record is.

 

[najaB]

I think your choice needs to be guided by balancing the cost of Manak (and risk of failure say 25%) against how important not getting a criminal record is.

Keeping in mind that if TfL decide to prosecute, they are more likely than not going to pursue a Byelaw charge, which is a strict liability offence on the same level as a speeding fine.