Tickets on the London Underground

[FozzQuaker]

I'm planning on going to London on the 3rd-6th October.

Does TFL sell day tickets for the tube, as I intend to explore a quite a bit of the capital and will be using the tube a bit.

Will I have to get an oyster card or do they sell paper day tickets...

Any advice will be appreciated

Many thanks

FQ

 

[Wolfie]

I'm planning on going to London on the 3rd-6th October.

Does TFL sell day tickets for the tube, as I intend to explore a quite a bit of the capital and will be using the tube a bit.

Will I have to get an oyster card or do they sell paper day tickets...

Any advice will be appreciated

Many thanks

FQ

There are no tube only day tickets.

There are daily Travelcards which cover all modes of transport (look at the TfL website) which come as paper tickets.

Alternatively you can use Oyster Pay As You go or a contactless credit/debit card (remember to always use the same one!). The daily charge on either of those is capped at a level below that of the daily Travelcard cost. The potential benefit of using an Oyster is that you can add a railcard to, subject to T&C's, get discounted travel.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does TFL sell day tickets for the tube, as I intend to explore a quite a bit of the capital and will be using the tube a bit.

You can buy a paper Travelcard from ticket machines this is valid the Underground, National Rail and buses. There is no only Tube ticket.

Alternatively you can use Oyster Pay As You go or a contactless credit/debit card (remember to always use the same one!). The daily charge on either of those is capped at a level below that of the daily Travelcard cost. The potential benefit of using an Oyster is that you can add a railcard to, subject to T&C's, get discounted travel.

There is also no maximum journey time issue which can be a problem for people who are just wanting to travel around a lot without necessarily exiting the system for any significant time. This is avoided by using a paper travelcard.

 

[FozzQuaker]

Thanks Guys, I'll look into it when I get to London

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What currently are the comparative prices (before any applicable railcard discount)?

 

[Wolfie]

What currently are the comparative prices (before any applicable railcard discount)?

That is a non-trivial question.

Hope that l'm not going to fall foul of the mods by posting a link.

Tube and rail fares

Fares set by TfL for the Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line and National Rail services

tfl.gov.uk

 

[FozzQuaker]

Also...I have a concessionary bus pass, can that be used on London Buses

 

[bcarmicle]

If it is an ENCTS pass, yes, except between 04:30 and 09:30 on weekdays (slightly more generous than outside London). The pass should be shown to the driver and not tapped on the reader.

 

[FozzQuaker]

If it is an ENCTS pass, yes, except between 04:30 and 09:30 on weekdays (slightly more generous than outside London). The pass should be shown to the driver and not tapped on the reader.

Ah right, that is rather generous, I was told London fell outside the ENCTS Scheme as tfl had there own concession scheme

 

[Dstock7080]

If it is an ENCTS pass, yes, except between 04:30 and 09:30 on weekdays (slightly more generous than outside London).

09.00 weekdays in London

Fares & tickets

There are a number of fare options available for older and disabled people.

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Surreytraveller]

Ah right, that is rather generous, I was told London fell outside the ENCTS Scheme as tfl had there own concession scheme

The ENCTS scheme covers England. London is in England.
If you get a Travelcard, that's valid on buses anyway. Buses are also included in the Contactless/Oystercard cap if you reach the cap.

 

[FozzQuaker]

How does the cap work BTW...

If i tap in and tap out at various points, once I've reached a certain 'spend' will tfl stop taking money from my account...

So basically when I get to a certain point, I won't be spending when tapping in and out...and what is the cap compared to the price of a Day Pass...

I do apologise for all the questions, it's been a long time since I've been to the Capital, and I do intend on exploring the Tube System, going to different places

 

[jfollows]

How does the cap work BTW...

If i tap in and tap out at various points, once I've reached a certain 'spend' will tfl stop taking money from my account...

So basically when I get to a certain point, I won't be spending when tapping in and out...and what is the cap compared to the price of a Day Pass...

I do apologise for all the questions, it's been a long time since I've been to the Capital, and I do intend on exploring the Tube System, going to different places

Yes, and the cap is usually about the same as a day ticket for the same zones.
See https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/pay-as-you-go-caps for more information.

How a cap works​

We work out when you've reached a cap because we log every journey you make and keep track of:

• Zones you've travelled through
• The time you touch in on each journey
• All fares you pay

You must touch in at start and touch out at the end of every journey, using the same contactless card, device or Oyster card. If you don't you may be charged a maximum fare.

If you use contactless, always use the same card or device. If you don't, we can't cap your fares. For example, if you pay with a mobile device on Monday and a contactless card on Tuesday, these fares won't count towards a weekly cap.

Daily cap​

A daily cap is calculated over 24 hours for pay as you go journeys that start at 04:30 and end on 04:29 the next day.

Weekly cap​

A weekly cap limits how much you pay for all your journeys in a fixed Monday to Sunday period. It works using adult rate pay as you go on contactless (card or device) or Oyster.

If you do a single week of travel starting later in the week, for example from Thursday to Wednesday, there are not enough days up to Sunday to reach a weekly cap. So you may find it better value to buy a 7 Day Travelcard.

But generally, pay as you go with weekly capping does not exceed the price of a 7 Day Travelcard and it is likely to prove better value. With pay as you go, you only pay for days on which you travel, which in some weeks might turn out to be less than you intend. With a 7 Day Travelcard you always pay for the equivalent of five days' travel.

 

[ainsworth74]

How does the cap work BTW...

If i tap in and tap out at various points, once I've reached a certain 'spend' will tfl stop taking money from my account...

So basically when I get to a certain point, I won't be spending when tapping in and out...

Yes, once you reach your daily cap for the zones that you've used you will stop being charged.

and what is the cap compared to the price of a Day Pass...

It's a bit harder to compare as there are Zonal caps depending on the number of zones used whereas the Day Travelcard is for Zones 1 - 6 (or 9). But, broadly the Zone 1 - 6 cap is £15.60 whilst an Off-Peak Day Travelcard costs £15.90. But if you say travelled in Zones 1 - 3 the cap would be £10 but there is no Zone 1 - 3 Day Travelcard so you're still spending £15.90.

The above assumes no Railcards by the by.

I do apologise for all the questions, it's been a long time since I've been to the Capital, and I do intend on exploring the Tube System, going to different places

It can be cheaper to just use pay as you go due to capping, particularly if you're only planning on exploring a few central zones. But it is important to be wary of maximum journey times. For example if you travel for longer than 90 minutes and tap in and out within Zone 1 you'll be charged a maximum fare of £9.40 rather than the correct (or capped) fare. This is why a Travelcard can be better if you're intending to spend long periods of time within the system.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I do apologise for all the questions, it's been a long time since I've been to the Capital, and I do intend on exploring the Tube System, going to different places

What sort of exploring?

Using Oyster or Contactless there is a maximum journey time which, if you exceed it, will result in two maximum fares being charged. The thing to really watch out with this is that if you tap in and out through stations with an out of station interchange (OSI), i.e. two separate stations which are linked as an interchange (e.g. West Hampstead and West Hampstead Thameslink). This means the second journey will be treated as a continuation of your first journey and so you might hit the maximum journey time without realising.

TfL explain it, and provide a list of the OSIs, here: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/out-of-station-interchanges

The best way of breaking an OSI is to touch in on a bus between exiting one station of the OSI and entering the other station of the OSI. You'll be charged for the bus but this will count towards the cap.

Contactless caps are more dynamic than the caps applied to Oyster, as the back office will work out the cheapest fare for your entire day's travel on Contactless. This can be quite a bit cheaper if you have a lot of travel in the central zones and only one journey to an outer zone (e.g. the system is clever enough to work out that, for instance, a Z1-2 cap and a Z2-4 single is cheaper than a Z1-4 cap). ETA: it can't do this on Oyster, so Oyster would charge you the Z1-4 cap.

If you're intending to ride around all day, especially if you're intending to head out into the outer zones, then personally I'd buy the paper ticket.

 

[FozzQuaker]

What sort of exploring?

Using Oyster or Contactless there is a maximum journey time which, if you exceed it, will result in two maximum fares being charged. The thing to really watch out with this is that if you tap in and out through stations with an out of station interchange (OSI), i.e. two separate stations which are linked as an interchange (e.g. West Hampstead and West Hampstead Thameslink). This means the second journey will be treated as a continuation of your first journey and so you might hit the maximum journey time without realising.

TfL explain it, and provide a list of the OSIs, here: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/out-of-station-interchanges

The best way of breaking an OSI is to touch in on a bus between exiting one station of the OSI and entering the other station of the OSI. You'll be charged for the bus but this will count towards the cap.

Contactless caps are more dynamic than the caps applied to Oyster, as the back office will work out the cheapest fare for your entire day's travel on Contactless. This can be quite a bit cheaper if you have a lot of travel in the central zones and only one journey to an outer zone (e.g. the system is clever enough to work out that, for instance, a Z1-2 cap and a Z2-4 single is cheaper than a Z1-4 cap). ETA: it can't do this on Oyster, so Oyster would charge you the Z1-4 cap.

If you're intending to ride around all day, especially if you're intending to head out into the outer zones, then personally I'd buy the paper ticket.

Thanks for all the good advice...

Upto now, I don't have a plan for what I want to do...I'm going to work that out soon...

I'm staying at a Hostel near Russell Square, so that I'm close enough to where I need to be to get back home, only plan I have set at the moment is I'm going to watch Charlton Athletic on the Saturday Afternoon, so I have an idea about how to get there...

But on the Thursday when I arrive and all day Friday, my intention is to just roam around London on the Railways and Tube, probably covering most zones. I fancy going having a look at Wembley Stadium and the Olympic Stadium, just doing my own thing in my own time

What would be the best app to journey plan, I'm guessing TFL will be one of the goto planning apps to get around the capital.

I'm guessing paper tickets is going to be the best option then...

 

[Tetchytyke]

I generally use CityMapper, but TfL Go is also pretty good.

If you do intend to use your Contactless bank card then create a TfL account and register the card. You can then track your usage in real time through the separate TfL Oyster app.

Exploring days I'd use a paper ticket, but if on the Saturday you're just going out and back to The Valley then I'd use Contactless for that. Only bother with Oyster if you have a Railcard- you can add the Railcard discount to Oyster but not Contactless.

 

[Joshua_Harman]

If you have a Concessionary bus pass you are also most likely entitled to (and probably have) a railcard which can be linked to your Oyster card to gain a discount on fares for tube, train and travelcard. By showing your railcard to the attendant at a tube station,

The card has to be registered online but I’ve purchased one from a machine before registered it on my telephone then and there and linked the railcard to it.

You can also get a railcard discount on a zone 1-6 paper travel card ( which was about £8 ish last time I did it) which doesn’t require you to tap in and out so you can take your time on the network exploring and entering and exiting at the same stations which you cannot do with an Oyster card.

 

[Mikey C]

Exploring days I'd use a paper ticket, but if on the Saturday you're just going out and back to The Valley then I'd use Contactless for that. Only bother with Oyster if you have a Railcard- you can add the Railcard discount to Oyster but not Contactless.

Agreed. Just remember to touch in and out at Charlton, which doesn't have ticket barriers, so you have to use the card readers by the entrance to the platforms.

Charlton station (in London's Zone 3) is a National Rail station, not a TfL one, so paper tickets are very expensive. A ludicrous £9.40 for a return to Charlton.

PAYG is £3.50 off peak each way, i.e. £7.00. As the Zones 1 to 3 daily cap is £10.00, a couple of central London journeys and travel is then effectively free all day in central London.

 

[FozzQuaker]

If you have a Concessionary bus pass you are also most likely entitled to (and probably have) a railcard which can be linked to your Oyster card to gain a discount on fares for tube, train and travelcard. By showing your railcard to the attendant at a tube station,

The card has to be registered online but I’ve purchased one from a machine before registered it on my telephone then and there and linked the railcard to it.

You can also get a railcard discount on a zone 1-6 paper travel card ( which was about £8 ish last time I did it) which doesn’t require you to tap in and out so you can take your time on the network exploring and entering and exiting at the same stations which you cannot do with an Oyster card.

I'm not sure if I'd be entitled to a Railcard, I'm nearly 2 decades past meeting the criteria for a YP Railcard and just over 2 decades short of being eligible for an OAP Railcard...

I have the pass due to my mental health problems, but I've never thought I could be eligible for Disabled Railcard

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have the pass due to my mental health problems, but I've never thought I could be eligible for Disabled Railcard

If you receive PIP because of your mental health difficulties then you are eligible for the Disabled Persons Railcard. A mate of mine has it due to their mental health difficulties.

You can buy them with Tesco Clubcard vouchers.

Are You Eligible - Disabled Persons Railcard

www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk

 

[FozzQuaker]

If you receive PIP because of your mental health difficulties then you are eligible for the Disabled Persons Railcard. A mate of mine has it due to their mental health difficulties.

You can buy them with Tesco Clubcard vouchers.

Are You Eligible - Disabled Persons Railcard

www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk

I don't recieve PIP at the moment, not sure if I could as I'm working Part Time and claim Universal Credit...

Suppose it's worth having a look into it in the future

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't recieve PIP at the moment, not sure if I could as I'm working Part Time and claim Universal Credit...

PIP is a benefit paid to people who are in or out of work, it is a none means tested and non-contributory. The relevant factor is that the claimant has a health condition and that it effects them enough to satisfy the requirements of the PIP assessment. Being in work is therefore no bar in qualifying for PIP. Many claimants of PIP will be working and claiming UC.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't recieve PIP at the moment, not sure if I could as I'm working Part Time and claim Universal Credit...

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) is assessed based on the nature of your mental health problems and how they impact you in your day to day life. It's perfectly possible to be working and receiving PIP and being in work is no bar to receiving PIP. PIP isn't means-tested, it's needs-tested, and separately receiving PIP does result in an uplift in someone's UC.

In reality if you are able to maintain a job (even a part-time job) it often becomes more challenging to show that you meet the criteria for PIP. But definitely worth exploring with a welfare benefits expert if the impact of your mental health difficulties are sufficient for you to meet the criteria for an ENCTS pass.

I'd give Citizens Advice County Durham a call to discuss it all in more detail. I used to work with some of them, lovely people.

Personal Independence Payment

Information on eligibility for claiming Personal Independence Payment (PIP), how to fill in the claim form and how to challenge a decision.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

 

[FozzQuaker]

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) is assessed based on the nature of your mental health problems and how they impact you in your day to day life. It's perfectly possible to be working and receiving PIP and being in work is no bar to receiving PIP. PIP isn't means-tested, it's needs-tested, and separately receiving PIP does result in an uplift in someone's UC.

In reality if you are able to maintain a job (even a part-time job) it often becomes more challenging to show that you meet the criteria for PIP. But definitely worth exploring with a welfare benefits expert if the impact of your mental health difficulties are sufficient for you to meet the criteria for an ENCTS pass.

I'd give Citizens Advice County Durham a call to discuss it all in more detail. I used to work with some of them, lovely people.

Personal Independence Payment

Information on eligibility for claiming Personal Independence Payment (PIP), how to fill in the claim form and how to challenge a decision.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

Thanks I'll bear it in mind