Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?

[signed]

Am I right in thinking that the iProov/ Smart Check has nothing to do with the EES?

And that Smartcheck users will still have to join whatever nightmare queue exists for fingerprinting?

It has nothing to do indeed, iProov is for the UK immigration

And yes, but I would expect maybe a dedicated line

 

[AdamWW]

I've often thought that St Pancras could do with screens like you see at some airports where it will say "The current security queue time is on average X minutes". Eurostar could do with something similar "The current security and passport control queue time is x minutes on average". Seeing big signs that say its taking ten/fifteen minutes to get through security and passport control is likely to help encourage people to not turn up ludicrously early for their train!

But you have to trust the information.

I made that mistake at Heathrow last year. Heathrow App said short wait so I didn't rush to the terminal.

I got there to find the security queue snaking outside the building (with complete chaos, no signage to tell you where the queue started and incredibly rude security guards yelling at people for getting it wrong).

 

[Vexed]

The government has said it will give Eurostar £3.5 million to help with EES. This is too little too late to have much of an impact I think. At least the government can they tried to help Eurostar when it inevitably results in a mess on the first day of operation. My bold in the quoted article for the Eurostar bits.

Government pledges new support to prepare for EU border checks

£10.5 million to prepare the Port of Dover, Eurostar and Eurotunnel for the upcoming EU digital border system.

www.gov.uk

Government pledges new support to prepare for EU border checks
£10.5 million to prepare the Port of Dover, Eurostar and Eurotunnel for the upcoming EU digital border system.

• new £10.5 million funding to help prepare for new EU checks at the border in autumn
• money will support the Port of Dover, Eurotunnel at Folkestone and Eurostar at St Pancras to help avoid queues
• comes as government continues to work closely with Kent partners to ensure smooth introduction of border controls

Ahead of upcoming changes at the border being implemented by the EU, the government has today (27 August 2024) announced £10.5 million to support preparations at the Port of Dover, Eurostar and Eurotunnel.

This autumn, the EU will introduce the Entry/Exit System (EES) – a new digital border system. Travellers from the UK and other non-EU countries will have to register at the border by having their fingerprints and photograph taken.

In order to reduce the risk of queuing and disruption, the government is taking action with this funding to help ports to install the necessary EES technology and complete work to get their sites ready for the checks coming into force.

Each port will receive a £3.5 million funding boost.

Future of Roads Minister, Lilian Greenwood said:

"Nobody wants to see excessive queues at our ports, which is why we’re providing this funding to ensure our borders are as prepared as possible for the upcoming change – despite EES being an EU initiative.

"Since coming into government, we have been reviewing plans and closely supporting ports to make sure they have the right processes in place so that EES registration can be smooth and queue times kept to a minimum."

Minister for Migration and Citizenship, Seema Malhotra will visit the Port of Dover and Eurotunnel today to see the ongoing EES preparations.

Minister for Migration and Citizenship, Seema Malhotra said:

"While EES checks will be a significant change to the EU border, we are working hard with the European Commission, member states and ports to ensure we are well prepared, and minimise any disruption for Brits travelling into Europe.

"This additional funding for ports will ensure they have the right technology and processes in place, so that EES registration can take place as smoothly as possible."

At the Port of Dover, this funding will be used to expedite work on the Granville Dock Project, where the existing marina at the Western Docks will be infilled and used as a site for EES processing.

At Eurotunnel and Eurostar, this funding will be used to install kiosks, in addition to those already installed, undertake rigorous testing to reduce the risk of disruption, and support recruitment and training of staff to contribute to smoother EES implementation.

The 3 ports have been making significant progress in their EES planning and are now on track for a smooth transition ahead of implementation later this year.

Today’s announcement forms part of the new government’s plan to prepare for EES, after the Home Office enabled French border officials to operate within an expanded border control zone at the Port of Dover, allowing more space to process passengers.

Emma Ward, Chief Operations Officer, Port of Dover, said:

"The funding is a welcome step towards the significant investments we are making to support government plans to prepare for the introduction of the EU’s EES scheme.

"We are doing all that we can to be ready with the facilities that will be used by French border officials operating the new system whilst we continue to work with the UK government to deliver more seamless travel between the UK and EU."

Simon Lejeune, Eurostar Chief Safety and Stations Officer, said:

"To ensure our customers continue to enjoy a seamless Eurostar experience as we prepare for the implementation of EES, we have made substantial investments in our station infrastructure.

"With support from the government, we have enhanced our facilities and upgraded our technology to meet the new requirements. Eurostar will be fully prepared and compliant by November, ensuring a smooth transition for all our passengers."

Yann Leriche, CEO, Getlink (Eurotunnel) said:

"Getlink started working 2 years ago on the adaptation of its terminal for the new EES regulation – the focus has always been on customer satisfaction, delivering the most competitive crossing time and experience at the border for non-EU travellers.

"This funding will be used to test and add new technology on the UK terminal, that will be deployed during peak periods, providing more kiosks, if needed, in addition to the 106 already installed in the UK, plus the recruitment and training of staff whose focus will be to assist EES passengers.

The Group has invested more than £70 million since the beginning of the process, designing and building a new dedicated EES Zone on each terminal, making sure that when the new regulation is introduced people will travel through the Channel Tunnel just as easily as they do today."

 

[signed]

The government has said it will give Eurostar £3.5 million to help with EES. This is too little too late to have much of an impact I think. At least the government can they tried to help Eurostar when it inevitably results in a mess on the first day of operation. My bold in the quoted article for the Eurostar bits.

Wouldn't that just help in covering the enrollment machine cost? I don't know who own them (is it the French Police aux frontières? STP/NR?), but apart from staffing I have no idea how giving money will solve the inevitable mayhem

 

[Segedunum]

Absolute chaos in Brussels this afternoon due to the tractor being hit by a TGV near Tournai. Staff have gone into hiding and sent the police to shuffle the crowds around - trains apparently running (and mine isn't cancelled) but nobody can be bothered to actually come out and tell people.

Hopefully St Pancras is doing better.

 

[Beebman]

Absolute chaos in Brussels this afternoon due to the tractor being hit by a TGV near Tournai. Staff have gone into hiding and sent the police to shuffle the crowds around - trains apparently running (and mine isn't cancelled) but nobody can be bothered to actually come out and tell people.

Hopefully St Pancras is doing better.

RTL TV in Belgium has an article (in French) about the collision including a very clear CCTV video of it taking place (view is of the side of the train away from the main point of impact):

https://www.rtl.be/actu/regions/hai...epercussions-jusqua/2024-08-27/article/704183

Google translation of the part of the article which mentions Eurostar:

Consequences as far as London

The accident caused major disruptions on the SNCB and Eurostar networks. It had an impact as far as London, because there were no more trains, around midday, between Brussels, Lille and London. According to the railway company, five of the 18 trains scheduled for the day had to be cancelled (two London-Brussels and three Brussels-London), the others experiencing delays of "around an hour".

The 120 passengers have, in the meantime, been evacuated and taken by bus to Tournai.

Eurostar train traffic was able to resume with a diversion via Mons, but with a slight delay. On the other hand, national trains are not running, bus shuttles are planned.

 

[Segedunum]

We've ended up departing 73 down at 17:33. Once you actually got to the ticket gates - it was all being handled really well. The issue was the complete lack of crowd management prior to there (and lack of anyone explaining what was going on).

Still, I've been swapped onto an E300, so every cloud and all. I did also end up being interviewed on TV

 

[rvdborgt]

Still, I've been swapped onto an E300, so every cloud and all. I did also end up being interviewed on TV

For which channel? And did you criticise the lack of crowd management?

 

[Segedunum]

For which channel? And did you criticise the lack of crowd management?

I'm 99% sure it was VRT - but I might be wrong. It was conducted in English! I did though yes - the fact Eurostar staff (well, one person who disappeared later) were moving us to one place then police sending us to the back of a very long queue afterwards was really quite bad. It was early on in the chaos so I was still fairly calm and factual

On board a very different atmosphere, thankfully!

 

[Vexed]

Wouldn't that just help in covering the enrollment machine cost? I don't know who own them (is it the French Police aux frontières? STP/NR?), but apart from staffing I have no idea how giving money will solve the inevitable mayhem

The Eurotunnel quote at the bottom says they've already spent £70 million for EES which puts this funding in perspective, though if Eurostar at St Pancras isn't doing building work with the money then I guess the £3.5m does seem reasonable.

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm 99% sure it was VRT - but I might be wrong. It was conducted in English! I did though yes - the fact Eurostar staff (well, one person who disappeared later) were moving us to one place then police sending us to the back of a very long queue afterwards was really quite bad. It was early on in the chaos so I was still fairly calm and factual

I think I've found it. In the 19:00 news there was a Eurostar item, with a number of short interviews, all in English (the item itself is in Dutch of course):

VRT MAX

www.vrt.be

The item starts at 16:35 (shortcut on the right), the interviews around 17:50. I guess you may be one of them. It looks like you need a VRT profile to be able to see it (but anyone can create one).

 

[Segedunum]

I think I've found it. In the 19:00 news there was a Eurostar item, with a number of short interviews, all in English (the item itself is in Dutch of course):

VRT MAX

www.vrt.be

The item starts at 16:35 (shortcut on the right), the interviews around 17:50. I guess you may be one of them. It looks like you need a VRT profile to be able to see it (but anyone can create one).

Thanks. It looks like you need to be in Belgium to watch it - unfortunately the VPN I've downloaded doesn't have Belgium as an option.

I was in a black and white checked shirt! I'll have to have a try when I'm on a laptop later.

Edit - got it! The chap after me wasn't very happy

 

[rvdborgt]

Thanks. It looks like you need to be in Belgium to watch it - unfortunately the VPN I've downloaded doesn't have Belgium as an option.

I was in a black and white checked shirt! I'll have to have a try when I'm on a laptop later.

You might be the one around 18:10 then (I guess you're not the lady with the German accent a bit before that )
The VRT website doesn't protest when I set my VPN to the UK, as long as I'm logged in with my VRT profile. If you do see a problem, just take any EU country. I've never needed to use a VPN to watch VRT programmes anywhere in the EU.

 

[DanielB]

The VRT website doesn't protest when I set my VPN to the UK, as long as I'm logged in with my VRT profile. If you do see a problem, just take any EU country.

Just tried to watch your link from a Dutch IP, which doesn't work. Also not when logged on to a VRT profile with fake Belgian adress entered.

 

[dm1]

If I remember correctly, there is provision in the new EES launch date for a transitional period during which the enrollment process can be skipped or applied selectively in order to avoid crowding and delays, so hopefully any disruption can be kept to a minimum by only enrolling a certain proportion of passengers initially, before ramping up once all the regular passengers are done.

 

[Mawkie]

If I remember correctly, there is provision in the new EES launch date for a transitional period during which the enrollment process can be skipped or applied selectively in order to avoid crowding and delays, so hopefully any disruption can be kept to a minimum by only enrolling a certain proportion of passengers initially, before ramping up once all the regular passengers are done.

Slightly related; it seems like travellers can only complete the process on the day of travel. Does anyone know why you can't register in advance?

 

[signed]

Slightly related; it seems like travellers can only complete the process on the day of travel. Does anyone know why you can't register in advance?

You need to be fingerprinted on first entry, so I suspect that may be part of the reason, plus the machine may enter your entry in the EES itself

 

[mad_rich]

Slightly related; it seems like travellers can only complete the process on the day of travel. Does anyone know why you can't register in advance?

Yes, this is one big thing that was flagged up by Eurostar and Dover a year or two ago - a desire for the PAF to allow off-site and/ or third-party registration for the EES.

As it stands, only PAF border agents can take you through the registration process, and they don't seem to be interested in facilitating pre-registration.

 

[Mike395]

St Pancras is having a set of EES enrolment machines installed in half of what used to be Benugo under the departure boards. That's pre-ticket control, so I wonder how rigidly the 'same day departure' requirement will be enforced in practice (particularly once the system beds in, I can see it being fairly strict to start with)

 

[Cloud Strife]

Slightly related; it seems like travellers can only complete the process on the day of travel. Does anyone know why you can't register in advance?

Looks like an odd interpretation of the rules by the Police aux Frontieres. There's no reason why it can't be done in advance, and self-service machines have already been installed on at least one of the Lithuanian borders before you reach the actual controls themselves.

Having said that, the EES should speed things up considerably in St Pancras. It's more the Port of Dover that I'm concerned about, and I haven't heard anything about how they intend to register people on the EES there.

 

[nwales58]

It's more the Port of Dover that I'm concerned about, and I haven't heard anything about how they intend to register people on the EES there.

Dover is the most space-constrained and crying out for off-site processing of everything short of the final identity to documents check.
Why not do most enrollment at Sevington, say, with residuals at Dover?

Edit: back in Feb they awarded contracts for a 6 lane canopy over a car areas and 3 modular buildings at Western Docks for coach processing.
I saw more which I can't find now, for cars there will be 6 lanes (I think the border checks currently have 5 lanes) handing pads into vehicles but not clear whether that was for enrollment or just subsequent checks. Coaches will go to Western Docks for enrollment, maybe for standard processing too, not clear and not clear where - are Border Force no longer using the hover site for boat landings or is this the cruise terminal or somewhere else? Reliable rapid enrollment using a pad in a vehicle seems unlikely, otherwise why would you need the standard terminals where correct levels of lighting and so on can be assured.

All in all it is a typically well-designed and managed large complex project. Not.

 

[Cloud Strife]

All in all it is a typically well-designed and managed large complex project. Not.

I think the problem with EES is that although it works well where travellers are on foot, it's just not going to work well at many crossings where cars are in use. Many of the external EU crossings are quite small and without anywhere to realistically process travellers, and it's hard to see how a handheld device is going to work when passed into a car. It's one thing at a small crossing where a handful of cars pass every hour, it's a different story where you've got a large number of non-EU travelers who will all have to be registered.

Why not do most enrollment at Sevington, say, with residuals at Dover?

I really don't have a good answer for that. It might be the PAF being unwilling to send staff there, although Sevington is also a complete mess organisationally. But yes, the registration should be done anywhere except at Dover itself, and it really should have been agreed and planned for a registration centre to be built somewhere away from Dover. One option could have to build a new facility just before junction 11A of the M20, so travellers for both Dover and the Channel Tunnel would register themselves there before going onwards. Combined with a secondary facility on the A2, it would cover both approaches to Dover without causing chaos in the port itself.

Reliable rapid enrollment using a pad in a vehicle seems unlikely, otherwise why would you need the standard terminals where correct levels of lighting and so on can be assured.

I just cannot comprehend how this is going to work, to be honest. 6 lanes won't nearly be enough, especially as it'll require someone to visually check the passengers in the car, something that doesn't really happen at present on most EU borders. Some borders will be ok, because detailed customs inspections are the norm (for instance, PL-BY borders), but others will simply grind to a halt.

 

[ainsworth74]

Should just join Schengen, then this won't be such an issue!

(This is the point at which I slap my own wrist for going off-topic and direct myself to the Brexit thread)

 

[Meerkat]

There's just no reason for it when you consider that you likely just stepped off an EMR or Thameslink with no such checks, and somehow you didn't explode or anything

I would imagine it’s because you are about to go through a very long tunnel, which would make a rather bigger statement target than blowing up a 700 in Luton

Out of curiosity, what security checks do shuttle cars/lorries go through?

Just before you go through passport control you drive over something - not sure if it just cameras looking for something on the bottom of the car or something more sophisticated.

Coaches will go to Western Docks for enrollment, maybe for standard processing too, not clear and not clear where - are Border Force no longer using the hover site for boat landings or is this the cruise terminal or somewhere else?

They have built a new canal through the prom to the dock behind it, and a new marina outside. They are now going to fill in the docks/marinas between the prom and the old hover terminal. This is so they can have quayside for freighters, vacating the old freighter quays inside Eastern docks (which are/will be more space for lorry/car waiting areas)
The filled in areas in Western docks will leave a big flat area for industry - I believe it is at least part of that which will be used for coach security checks (I think they then bung some sort of seal on the coach for the trip to the ferry in eastern docks)

 

[Fiyero]

I think this is the longest running thread I have started! My next trip is on Sunday 1st September at 10:31, what time should I turn up?
Based on feedback I am thinking find somewhere else nearby for a nice breakfast then head over about 09:30?

Just had my Eurostar home cancelled for 'operational reasons'. Luckily they gave a weeks notice and I was able to rebook for no fee but a bit cheeky as I paid for the time I wanted! Fingers crossed that is the last hiccup!

 

[rvdborgt]

Just had my Eurostar home cancelled for 'operational reasons'. Luckily they gave a weeks notice and I was able to rebook for no fee but a bit cheeky as I paid for the time I wanted!

Rebooking for no fee is a legal requirement. If you booked the first available Eurostar after the cancelled one, and that one arrives at least 60 minutes later, then you also qualify for compensation for delay.

 

[Fiyero]

Rebooking for no fee is a legal requirement. If you booked the first available Eurostar after the cancelled one, and that one arrives at least 60 minutes later, then you also qualify for compensation for delay.

I know - they made it sound like they were doing me a favour! I was already on the latest train I was comfortable actually making it home after so have had to go for an earlier one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2024 ==

Update. 10:31 train, didn't need to get breakfast locally as my accomodation included it. Arrived at st pancras around 09:15 and they seemed to be just opening up for my train so straight through and sat in the waiting area by 09:20.
Bored now.

 

[Pugwash]

Thinking about this, this morning with an upcoming trip in mind, surely it would be easier and cheaper to bring Stratford International into use in order to spread the passengers over 2 London stations rather than spend a huge amount of money re-developing St Pancras ?.

 

[signed]

Thinking about this, this morning with an upcoming trip in mind, surely it would be easier and cheaper to bring Stratford International into use in order to spread the passengers over 2 London stations rather than spend a huge amount of money re-developing St Pancras ?.

This is what I am thinking, however it has been publically said by Eurostar that it wouldn't be beneficial to the business

They even refused to stop there on a set down-only during the 2012 Olympics

 

[island]

Thinking about this, this morning with an upcoming trip in mind, surely it would be easier and cheaper to bring Stratford International into use in order to spread the passengers over 2 London stations rather than spend a huge amount of money re-developing St Pancras ?.

Eurostar would be on the hook for the ongoing cost of UK Border Force, Police aux Frontières, customer service, and security search staff there.