Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson - yet another assistance failure

[Horizon22]

It really isn't very difficult to do a quick Google search. The link to the 2012 incident is freely available on the Channel 4 website and seems near identical to the latest claim.

How Paralympian Tanni had to crawl from train

As Channel 4 News launches No Go Britain, an investigation into transport for the disabled, the UK's most successful disabled athlete reveals how she was recently left stranded on a train.

www.channel4.com

Tanni Grey Thompson is a well known disability rights activist and she obviously knows the upcoming Paralympics make disability a very topical issue right now. Without wishing to minimise the barriers wheelchair-bound passengers sometimes face, I'm afraid TGT's latest complaint sounds suspiciously like a manufactured PR stunt to me.

She may well be using it to increase PR & awareness and it may well be no different to 12 years ago, but that doesn't necessarily make it a "stunt" nor "manufactured".

Whilst there are two sides to every story, it is clear in LNER's response that something has gone obviously wrong and they are investigating.

 

[800001]

It really isn't very difficult to do a quick Google search. The link to the 2012 incident is freely available on the Channel 4 website and seems near identical to the latest claim.

How Paralympian Tanni had to crawl from train

As Channel 4 News launches No Go Britain, an investigation into transport for the disabled, the UK's most successful disabled athlete reveals how she was recently left stranded on a train.

www.channel4.com

Tanni Grey Thompson is a well known disability rights activist and she obviously knows the upcoming Paralympics make disability a very topical issue right now. Without wishing to minimise the barriers wheelchair-bound passengers sometimes face, I'm afraid TGT's latest complaint sounds suspiciously like a manufactured PR stunt to me.

Tanni was placed on a train at Leeds by the passenger assistance team, they are meant to notify via the app or via phone that there is a passenger requiring assistance in that’s train.

I can not see how this is a PR stunt!?

 

[Horizon22]

Unfortunately TGT is wrong about the DDA 2020 deadline (it was actually RVAR) as it didn’t mandate level boarding (it probably should have) and to be fair there was no technically affordable to solution to deliver level boarding at the time the legislation was consulted on and implemented back in the late 1990s early 2000s. I also think the division between trains (TOC) and infrastructure (Railtrack/Network Rail) hasn’t helped in delivering the best customer outcome, perhaps the new ‘guiding mind’ will deliver this in the future!

I don't think there's going to be a "technically affordable" solution now where you look at the immense amount of work that would be required across the whole network.

 

[snowball]

I haven't read the whole thread but on BBC news she was quoted as saying it will take 100 years to get level boarding, so in that she was presumably thinking of platform alterations.

 

[TreacleMiller]

I can't see how it takes that long to raise a platform at a set point a few inches. They've done it on the tube.

Sure, at smaller stations it'll take decades but st major terminals?

 

[BrianW]

I haven't read the whole thread but on BBC news she was quoted as saying it will take 100 years to get level boarding, so in that she was presumably thinking of platform alterations.

Where there's a will ...? There is no, or insufficient, will. 'If there's no money, we can't do it'. Another thread testifies to level boarding issues at Ealing Broadway, so it's not only LNER. This website is relevant: https://www.levelboarding.org.uk/

Dame Tanni is in a position to have her voice heard, including in the nation's legislature, to ensure the nation meets its obligations and commitments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Tanni Grey Thompson is a well known disability rights activist and she obviously knows the upcoming Paralympics make disability a very topical issue right now. Without wishing to minimise the barriers wheelchair-bound passengers sometimes face, I'm afraid TGT's latest complaint sounds suspiciously like a manufactured PR stunt to me.

Er, no, clearly this was a big failure of a disabled person and I can't see how she has manufactured this. How would that happen, in your mind? Tell us exactly how she's done it.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

Er, no, clearly this was a big failure of a disabled person and I can't see how she has manufactured this. How would that happen, in your mind? Tell us exactly how she's done it.

It's possible she took advantage of the situation to make a point, rather than manufacturing it completely. The article says she was forced to crawl off, when in fact she chose to after waiting 15 minutes, it could even have been less than that as people tend to extend the truth.

 

[800001]

I can't see how it takes that long to raise a platform at a set point a few inches. They've done it on the tube.

Sure, at smaller stations it'll take decades but st major terminals?

Well, LNER for a start, 5, 9 and 10 car sets, accessible space at the rear of each train would each be in a different place when train stops there is 6 different places to raise a platform just for LNER services.

 

[AlterEgo]

The article says she was forced to crawl off, when in fact she chose to after waiting 15 minutes, it could even have been less than that as people tend to extend the truth.

So she's essentially a liar, then? Or, perhaps she should have simply waited and not got herself off the train for even longer, to make people happy?

 

[Zerothebrake!]

She missed her intended train (for which assistance had presumably been booked) and took the next available train for which it wasn't..

 

[Aaron_TTL]

So she's essentially a liar, then? Or, perhaps she should have simply waited and not got herself off the train for even longer, to make people happy?

Hard to say without all the facts, if the station staff were very busy, having to wait 10-15 minutes doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hard to say without all the facts, if the station staff were very busy, having to wait 10-15 minutes doesn't seem unreasonable.

Why should she wait 15 minutes to leave the train when I can leave immediately?

 

[Clarence Yard]

I have a disabled colleague who experienced the same thing at KX late one Sunday (?) night several years ago - the train was quite late and the assistance team had gone off shift. The cleaners tried to raise the alarm and it took ages to find people to help her off the train.

I wonder if the same thing happened here.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It really isn't very difficult to do a quick Google search. The link to the 2012 incident is freely available on the Channel 4 website and seems near identical to the latest claim.

How Paralympian Tanni had to crawl from train

As Channel 4 News launches No Go Britain, an investigation into transport for the disabled, the UK's most successful disabled athlete reveals how she was recently left stranded on a train.

www.channel4.com

Tanni Grey Thompson is a well known disability rights activist and she obviously knows the upcoming Paralympics make disability a very topical issue right now. Without wishing to minimise the barriers wheelchair-bound passengers sometimes face, I'm afraid TGT's latest complaint sounds suspiciously like a manufactured PR stunt to me.

Err if anything the fact that a new identical incident can happen 12 years on is more a damnong verdict on the railway rather than on the person having to deal with it!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Shareholders. It's part of providing the service required of the TOC.

In this case (LNER) you mean the government.
My recollection is that BR did not have specific insurance, it carried the risk itself, certainly for buildings.
Something else for GBR to get its teeth into as a national cross-TOC policy.

 

[MotCO]

I can't see how it takes that long to raise a platform at a set point a few inches. They've done it on the tube.

Sure, at smaller stations it'll take decades but st major terminals?

Presumably the options are to raise the platforms (but doors to platform toilets, shops etc would then be at the wrong level), or, probably easier, is to lower the running line. It may be difficult if the station is at or close to a bridge or level crossing, but are there any significant issues in lowering the track?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I'm told that Euston has an awful reputation for this too.

We may be an outlier, but a couple of years ago I had occasion to travel from Euston twice with a passenger who was, at the time, using a wheelchair because of a broken leg, and on both occasions we found the staff at Euston most helpful, as were the Avanti staff on the train. (Though it has to be said that the Caledonian Sleeper staff were less helpful)

 

[RT4038]

Why should she wait 15 minutes to leave the train when I can leave immediately?

Because only reasonable adjustments have to be made. It may be considered unreasonable to have sufficient staff on hand to cater for a maximum number of such passengers arriving at a particular time, rather than having sufficient staff for the normal or normal plus a bit scenario. Nowhere in law does it mandate that disabled people should be able to live their lives exactly the same as non-disabled, as clearly the law makers realised that would be too expensive, and may also result in a perverse incentive to reduce the facilities to the able bodied. We do not know whether a peak of demand caused the delay or something else.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Well, LNER for a start, 5, 9 and 10 car sets, accessible space at the rear of each train would each be in a different place when train stops there is 6 different places to raise a platform just for LNER services.

Not quite, but the points well that I taken. The incoming stock has their own too. Again, not a huge amount of work to ramp those areas given our stopping points are tight, at select stations.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Presumably the options are to raise the platforms (but doors to platform toilets, shops etc would then be at the wrong level), or, probably easier, is to lower the running line. It may be difficult if the station is at or close to a bridge or level crossing, but are there any significant issues in lowering the track?

There can be - it may cause freight wagons, and in particular shipping containers which are often carried very low on the wagons to fit the loading gauge, to foul the platform. This is, I think, the issue at Ealing Broadway.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Er, no, clearly this was a big failure of a disabled person and I can't see how she has manufactured this. How would that happen, in your mind? Tell us exactly how she's done it.

You're jumping to a conclusion based on only one side of a story and for me, there are too many holes in it.

We all know how busy Kings Cross is, it's inconceivable that hundreds of passengers and several members of train crew would walk past a woman in a wheelchair without one of them asking if she needed any help. I know I would. And surely no right minded individual would refuse to help because they were not insured; even if they made that excuse they would surely go and fetch a member of platform staff rather than walk off and ignore her?

It's also revealing that she admits that "I waited five minutes before putting anything on social media", which if I'm reading it right, suggests her first reaction was to start ranting to her followers on Twitter when surely the first thing she should have done was contact LNER directly?

So I think we should wait to see if there's more to this story than meets the eye

 

[Aaron_TTL]

Why should she wait 15 minutes to leave the train when I can leave immediately?

I didn't realise being disabled meant consideration and patience weren't required.

 

[Dave W]

I'm reading it right

You're not. She tweeted LNER. No rant to followers.

The lengths some of the RailUK contrarians will go to just to smugly prove a point is frightening. Just accept this is a massive cock up. It looks dreadful on LNER and the wider industry, and - when we otherwise sit here hand-wringing over attracting custom - does nothing to help disabled people feel they can travel on the railway.

 

[Wolfie]

Where there's a will ...? There is no, or insufficient, will. 'If there's no money, we can't do it'. Another thread testifies to level boarding issues at Ealing Broadway, so it's not only LNER. This website is relevant: https://www.levelboarding.org.uk/

Dame Tanni is in a position to have her voice heard, including in the nation's legislature, to ensure the nation meets its obligations and commitments.

Re your last para you aren't kidding about her access. Nearly 40 years of working in Whitehall means that l know that correspondence from MPs/Lords is taken very seriously by Ministers. When it relates to the personal negative experiences of those legislators...

 

[Kath123]

Hi All

I’m visually impaired and use the Assisted Travel service. I was really disappointed to hear of Tanni’s experience yesterday.

On this thread a few people have talked about the Passenger Assist App and I just wanted to share some experiences I have had which have caused me concern about the App.

Please note I have the App installed on my phone but I rarely use it. I still book my assistance the good old way by telephone. I feel more re-assured doing this and as I often travel from a couple of quite small stations (who are sometimes short staffed) I like to try and check if they’ll be staffed before I attempt to travel.

The experiences I’ve had that concern me re the App are:

1. When I was doing a journey a few months ago the train guard informed me they couldn’t find my booking on the App even though the origin station had been able to find it.

2. On another journey I was informed by my destination station my booking was on the App but that it had not been marked on the App that I had boarded the train and no information had been put on the App as to where I was sat. I had communicated with two guards during the journey both of whom said information had been put on the App so this left me a bit confused.

I would also just like to say that in my experience as an Assisted Travel user it seems big stations are quite confident using the App, they are probably on it all day every day. But I don’t feel my small local stations are confident using it. They aren’t on it all the time and at times I wonder whether this might have led to my assistance not turning up - because they aren’t on it all the time and perhaps accidentally miss information.

I’ve also been told by a member of staff at one of my local stations that there is another member of staff who works there ‘who can’t use the App.’ I’m not sure why they can’t use it eg whether they just aren’t great with technology or perhaps have something like dyslexia - obviously that’s personal to them and none of my business but concerns me they can’t use the App.

So I am afraid I’m one of the passengers stations/guards might hate because I always still ask for staff to telephone my destination station. A lot of the big stations do refuse to do this now.

I also had an experience a while ago though where my destination was at a big station and I was not met despite booking assistance and so when someone eventually did come to help I said ‘Didn’t x station ring you?’ and they said ‘We’re short staffed today - there is no Station Receptionist so it wouldn’t matter if they tried’ so I guess not all stations can take calls?

A number of my journeys in the App still have the status ‘Confirmed’ not ‘Completed’ even though I completed them some time ago.

So as you probably gather for me I sit on the fence about the App still.

 

[RT4038]

You're not. She tweeted LNER. No rant to followers.

The lengths some of the RailUK contrarians will go to just to smugly prove a point is frightening. Just accept this is a massive cock up. It looks dreadful on LNER and the wider industry, and - when we otherwise sit here hand-wringing over attracting custom - does nothing to help disabled people feel they can travel on the railway.

'does nothing' ? This seems a tad hyperbolic. The railway does a lot for disabled passengers. Not everything goes right. But then it doesn't always go right for able bodied passengers either. Not saying that incidents can't be investigated and things can't be improved, but every eventuality cannot be catered for perfectly.

 

[WelshBluebird]

We all know how busy Kings Cross is, it's inconceivable that hundreds of passengers and several members of train crew would walk past a woman in a wheelchair without one of them asking if she needed any help. I know I would.

She was on the train. Probably not in view of most people and it sounds like the cleaners were the first people to see her.

And surely no right minded individual would refuse to help because they were not insured; even if they made that excuse they would surely go and fetch a member of platform staff rather than walk off and ignore her?

Said from an obvious position of privilege. Yes, lots of people do ignore individuals in need.

It's also revealing that she admits that "I waited five minutes before putting anything on social media", which if I'm reading it right, suggests her first reaction was to start ranting to her followers on Twitter when surely the first thing she should have done was contact LNER directly?

She used twitter to contact LNER as that is often the easiest way to get a response!

 

[En]

Seems strange that the cleaners apparently aren't trained to seek help in the event of finding a mobility impaired person who needs assistance to get off the train.

T G-T has a bit of a reputation for being outright rude and very ' don't you know who I am ' ( some of the Older Paralympians really don't like her ) , iirc she's also been shown to have numerous issues with being a perpetrator of discriminatory acts and words

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

The ramp is in coach A, needs a t-key, they have a t-key.

But only people trained to use the ramps are allowed to use them, and the cleaners are not. The cleaners are not employed by LNER.

The focus shouldn’t be on the cleaners, the focus needs to be on lners consistent failure at multiple stations of passenger assistance.

exactly this

 

[12LDA28C]

She missed her intended train (for which assistance had presumably been booked) and took the next available train for which it wasn't..

...and which the Train Manager could presumably have arranged quite easily from the train by making the necessary arrangements.