Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[pokemonsuper9]

I can't actually see the list of 15 stations, but I'm fairly sure that's all of them east of Upminster / Grays (the existing Oyster boundary).

The first paragraph in your quote says

From Sunday 22 September, pay as you go with contactless will launch across the entire c2c network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

15 stations is on the WCML. It doesn't extend to MKC because the TOC specific fares that apply from there would confuse matters (and if they just did it for the interavailable fares nobody would use it).

 

[jon81uk]

Who are still adults? Most people see an adult fare as over 16 for the vast majority of things.

That is true, but TfL at least have separate fare categories for railcard vs "adult".

 

[A S Leib]

15 stations is on the WCML. It doesn't extend to MKC because the TOC specific fares that apply from there would confuse matters (and if they just did it for the interavailable fares nobody would use it).

And similarly for Stevenage, although I don't think Watton-at-Stone is included either for some reason.

 

[Haywain]

other railcard holders generally are not "adults" they are young persons or seniors etc

I've got a railcard, and I regard myself as an adult (no matter that some might consider I occasionally behave in a slightly childish way).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

15 stations is on the WCML.

The quote from c2c says:

15 c2c stations (see list below)

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Playing devil's advocate here ....but say I want to go to Luton Airport from Bletchley it's LNR/WMT who run the trains from Bletchley to Bedford so it is implying I can tap in at Bletchley and tap out and change trains at Bedford to continue on Thameslink, or maybe not have to tap out until the airport.

Pay as you go with contactless

Pay as you go with contactless is coming soon and will be arriving to 14 of our stations on 22nd September 2024. Tap in and tap out with pay as you go with contactless. Pay as you go with contactless is simple, fast, and flexible. You can use a contactless card or device to pay as you go on...

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

says

Always check pay as you go with contactless is available at your destination.​

Before you tap in at the start of your journey, make sure that pay as you go with contactless is available at your destination. If you do not touch out, this will show as an incomplete journey, and you will be charged a maximum fare.

So if I've heard that contactless is now available from Bletchley - how do I check that it is available at my destination of Bedford or Luton Airport Parkway? Are there going to be big signs at Bletchley listing the stations one can go to using contactless?

And can I use my Oyster card? Will there be big signs at Bletchley saying whether Oyster works or not? Some people associate contactless and Oyster as being the same for rail travel.

I can see lots of confused passengers at Bletchley soon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn't appear to include the Marston Vale, but the explanation that it doesn't seems to be a bit lacking. It should probably say "for journeys to these stations, to London and beyond".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

So if I've heard that contactless is now available from Bletchley - how do I check that it is available at my destination of Bedford or Luton Airport Parkway? Are there going to be big signs at Bletchley listing the stations one can go to using contactless?

It is on the map poster. However, 99.9999% of people are going to London so it'll be fine.

Oyster and contactless haven't been the same thing for a while. There is I think the odd exception, but as a general rule actual Oyster only works within the original 9 zones.

 

[Richardr]

The website also says:

https://www.londonnorthwesternrailw...icket-delivery-options/pay-you-go-contactless

To keep the price of tickets and pay as you go with contactless as similar as possible, Super Off-Peak tickets are no longer available on journeys where contactless pay as you go is available. You will either be charged a peak or off-peak fare instead.
Off-peak fares have also been reduced to reflect the removal of Super Off-Peak tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The website also says:

https://www.londonnorthwesternrailw...icket-delivery-options/pay-you-go-contactless

This fare change is already in place and has been for months now, probably over a year. The single-fare pricing can be a significant saver on journeys with an overnight stay - I paid just £7.something from Euston to Bletchley yesterday evening with my Network Railcard which however you look at it is an utter bargain. The issues that might be caused by trying to apply this to the TOC specific fares at MKC (or the fare hike from getting rid of them) is probably why it's not been done to MKC.

 

[swt_passenger]

All phase 1 TOCs except Chiltern, so everything in the original press release except the 6 stations Denham to High Wycombe.

Weren’t those 6 stations already live from 30 June, as highlighted in post #911? Your news reads as though they’re somehow excluded. Presumably they’re not on the current list, as they’ve already happened?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Oyster and contactless haven't been the same thing for a while. There is I think the odd exception, but as a general rule actual Oyster only works within the original 9 zones.

I imagine any confusion there will be for people who live in London and rarely travel beyond Zone 6: Those people are more likely to see Oyster and contactless as synonymous - because for the journeys they normally make, they are. I suspect not that many people are still using Oyster, but if anyone like that is and makes a rare trip outside London to a Project Oval station, then they might conceivably use their Oyster and then get a nasty shock.

(Although if they are using an Oyster, I'm guessing the maximum fare they'd be charged for not touching out would be rather less than the maximum Oval fare)

 

[Haywain]

but say I want to go to Luton Airport from Bletchley it's LNR/WMT who run the trains from Bletchley to Bedford so it is implying I can tap in at Bletchley and tap out and change trains at Bedford to continue on Thameslink, or maybe not have to tap out until the airport.

You would be seen as having no ticket when you are checked on the Marston Vale service. And if you were able to get past that you would probably be charged the via London fare when you touch out at Luton Airport Parkway.

 

[Vexed]

Weren’t those 6 stations already live from 30 June, as highlighted in post #911? Your news reads as though they’re somehow excluded. Presumably they’re not on the current list, as they’ve already happened?

Yes, sorry I wasn't very clear.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

Playing devil's advocate here ....but say I want to go to Luton Airport from Bletchley it's LNR/WMT who run the trains from Bletchley to Bedford so it is implying I can tap in at Bletchley and tap out and change trains at Bedford to continue on Thameslink, or maybe not have to tap out until the airport.

No different to Gatwick Airport/Redhill to Reading on GWR services with a big gap in the middle of no contactless being valid. They should really be advising TfL's Tube and Rail map, which of course hasn't been released yet!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

The National Rail contactless page confirms it's the whole of the rest of phase one and has a map with the new stations.

Pay As You Go with Contactless | National Rail

You can use a contactless card or device to pay as you go on National Rail, London Underground, DLR, London Buses and London tram services within London and at an increasing number of stations across the South East

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[traji00]

I notice that both LNR and c2c talk about "the best adult fare calculated" but don't mention that this doesn't apply to railcard holders. I've no problem with the spin about convenience, but I do feel they should be making this a bit clearer.

Interestingly, SWR does point this out (my bold):

Pay as you go with contactless may not always be the cheapest way to pay for your journey.

• If you have a Railcard or are eligible for other discounts (like a Child discount), it may be cheaper to buy a ticket for your journey. Currently discounts cannot be applied when you pay as you with contactless.
• If you make the same journey regularly, buying a Season ticket (weekly, monthly, annual or Flexi Season) may be better value.
• If you usually make a point-to-point journey (e.g. Staines to Clapham Junction) and you do not require a Travelcard, buying daily tickets or using Tap2Go may offer better value. Tap2Go also offers weekly capping on point-to-point journeys

Pay as you go with contactless extension | South Western Railway

Pay as you go with contactless will be rolled out to another 47 National Rail stations across the South East on 2 February 2025.

www.southwesternrailway.com

 

[A S Leib]

Interestingly, SWR does point this out (my bold):

Pay as you go with contactless extension | South Western Railway

Pay as you go with contactless will be rolled out to another 47 National Rail stations across the South East on 2 February 2025.

www.southwesternrailway.com

SWR and GTR both have their own PAYG cards (Tap2Go and KeyGo), both of which can have railcards added, which may be a factor.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Interestingly, SWR does point this out (my bold):

Pay as you go with contactless extension | South Western Railway

Pay as you go with contactless will be rolled out to another 47 National Rail stations across the South East on 2 February 2025.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Wait so just to be clear. If I have a railcard, it won't be applied when I use contactless?

If so, do I need to buy a ticket to have the discount applied?

 

[SWT_USER]

SWR and GTR both have their own PAYG cards (Tap2Go and KeyGo), both of which can have railcards added, which may be a factor.

The problem with Tap2go is you can't use it for journey's which involve the tube - so only of any use as far as Waterloo.

Wait so just to be clear. If I have a railcard, it won't be applied when I use contactless?

If so, do I need to buy a ticket to have the discount applied?

Yes - or use Tap2go (assuming you are talking about SWR).

 

[A S Leib]

The problem with Tap2go is you can't use it for journey's which involve the tube - so only of any use as far as Waterloo.

It was also the case at some point that you couldn't use it anywhere where Oyster was valid. Now I think you can't use Tap2Go and KeyGo to go directly from Portsmouth to Chichester, as KeyGo's generally not valid at SWR stations (or Southeastern ones, Peterborough or Cambridge – King's Lynn) but you can use them to go via Clapham Junction (tapping out with one and in with the other there).

 

[Hadders]

And similarly for Stevenage, although I don't think Watton-at-Stone is included either for some reason.

Stevenage is in phase 2.

To be honest I expect the farcial LNER only walk up fares to go. There is so little difference in price they cause more confusion. People travelling from Stevenage to London just board the first train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stevenage is in phase 2.

To be honest I expect the farcial LNER only walk up fares to go. There is so little difference in price they cause more confusion. People travelling from Stevenage to London just board the first train.

To be honest it would be helpful to get rid of the MKC ones as well, and just reduce the interavailable one a bit. The difference between the two TOCs' dedicated fares is now pennies. If the TOCs still want to muck about in this way they can offer Advances.

 

[Hadders]

MKC is harder because there’s a significant gap between the TOC only fares and the Any Permitted.

Stevenage has only LNER only and Any Permitted, and the difference isn’t big.

 

[Bletchleyite]

MKC is harder because there’s a significant gap between the TOC only fares and the Any Permitted.

True. Though I suspect that doing it on a revenue neutral basis wouldn't have to result in a very expensive fare being all that remained, as hardly anyone buys the interavailable tickets due to that price difference.

 

[Fazaar1889]

The problem with Tap2go is you can't use it for journey's which involve the tube - so only of any use as far as Waterloo.

Yes - or use Tap2go (assuming you are talking about SWR).

Damn that's annoying. Thanks tho

 

[JonathanH]

MKC is harder because there’s a significant gap between the TOC only fares and the Any Permitted.

I'm not sure what is hard about it. The railway is never particularly averse to a stealth fare increase. What amazes me is how long some of the better value fares hang on before a sudden withdrawal.

Something similar is going to have to happen at some point on the Thameslink network and at Cambridge.

 

[Chriso]

Official National rail contactless map at this link

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/contactless-payg/contactless-payg-map-and-index.pdf

 

[A S Leib]

Official National rail contactless map at this link

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/contactless-payg/contactless-payg-map-and-index.pdf

I don't think the Met's a fixed link for Harrow-on-the-Hill, Rickmansworth etc. in the way the Bakerloo line is for (southern?) WCML stations to Paddington, but not showing it is still a decision which I don't quite understand.

 

[Kite159]

Certainly taken them long enough to launch phase one, even if contactless can be more expensive than paper tickets if you have a railcard.

 

[plugwash]

Oyster and contactless haven't been the same thing for a while. There is I think the odd exception, but as a general rule actual Oyster only works within the original 9 zones.

The total number of stations outside the zones where oyster is accepted is quite small but you can find one on around half of the mainlines out of London.

Watford Junction (West coast main line/Watford DC)
Radlett (Midland mainline)
Potters Bar (East coast Main line)
Cuffley to Hertford North (Hertford loop)
Broxbourne to Hetrford East (West Anglia main line and it's Hertford Branch)
Shenfield (GEML)
Ockenden and Purfleet to Grays (towards southend).
Merstham to Gatwick airport (Brighton mainline, only ones south of the river)
Epson (Sutton and Mole valley lines)

 

[Benjwri]

The total number of stations outside the zones where oyster is accepted is quite small but you can find one on around half of the mainlines out of London.

Watford Junction (West coast main line/Watford DC)
Radlett (Midland mainline)
Potters Bar (East coast Main line)
Cuffley to Hertford North (Hertford loop)
Broxbourne to Hetrford East (West Anglia main line and it's Hertford Branch)
Shenfield (GEML)
Ockenden and Purfleet to Grays (towards southend).
Merstham to Gatwick airport (Brighton mainline, only ones south of the river)
Epson (Sutton and Mole valley lines)

Can't forget most of the GWML

 

[JonathanH]

Can't forget most of the GWML

Oyster isn't valid west of West Drayton. Contactless only outside Zone 6 on that line.