HELP NEEDED - letter to GTR about pending prosecution

[cs578]

Hi,

I am currently awaiting a letter from Thameslink about intention to prosecute following being caught on a Thameslink train without a ticket.

I was on a train from Kentish Town to Harlington (Bedfordshire) and was asked by a ticket inspector to produce a ticket for the journey, which I could not. I showed her a ticket that I had bought whilst on the train, which was obviously not bought before the journey had begun.

I completely understand I am in the wrong, and I regret my actions as I had never before done something like this.

I have drafted a letter which I have attached here - I would be so grateful for some advice regarding this letter, as I have quite a tricky situation (I am due to leave the country for 5 weeks at the end of this week and have not yet heard back from Thameslink regarding the letter). I would like to send this in advance so that it does not look like I am ignoring the situation. I really just want to get this situation sorted ASAP! I am hoping for an out of court settlement and am prepared to cover those costs.

Thank you so much for any advice that you can lend to me!

 

[Titfield]

There is little point in sending the letter to Thameslink until you have received the letter from them to you. This is because Thameslink will not be able to link your letter to the investigation they have opened up.

Your draft letter is too long and repetitive. You should consider redrafting following the advice which @Hadders gives in such situations.

 

[cs578]

There is little point in sending the letter to Thameslink until you have received the letter from them to you. This is because Thameslink will not be able to link your letter to the investigation they have opened up.

Your draft letter is too long and repetitive. You should consider redrafting following the advice which @Hadders gives in such situations.

Thank you. Regarding the case of me not being at my address for 5 weeks, do you think that will impact the outcome if I reply once I get back?

 

[John R]

The GTR website says this:-

We are a very busy team and it can be a little while before we receive the inspector's reports and process them. If you are concerned you may have missed some correspondence, for example if you have moved address, you can e-mail the Prosecutions Team at gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com with the details you gave the inspector at the time and the date you made the journey, and we can look into this further for you.

It is vitally important that you inform us of any address changes, as it is likely we will be sending letters to you via the address given the revenue member of staff at the time, if correspondence is not replied to, this may mean that court action to recover any outstanding fare is taken.

PLEASE NOTE – This mailbox is only used to inform us of a new correspondence address or sending through evidence of a valid ticket or railcard at the time the journey was undertaken, this email address cannot be used to make any appeal or mitigation, any emails sent in this vein will be ignored and deleted.

I suggest you send them a very brief email with the details requested, and addressing only the point you want to make with regard to your contact details. It's not necessary or indeed welcome to start explaining and apologising, as you can see from the last paragraph above.

 

[Titfield]

Thank you. Regarding the case of me not being at my address for 5 weeks, do you think that will impact the outcome if I reply once I get back?

Potentially it could cause a problem because GTR may only give you 14 or 21 days in which to reply, and if receiving no reply then escalate matters.

You could (and should) send an email as @John R suggests in post #4 however they may not match up the email to your incident correctly and the jeopardy would still be there. It does read though from the gtr website, which @John R has quoted, that they are aware of the issue and that would imply that they do endeavour to match up those emails with the correct incident file.

 

[cs578]

Potentially it could cause a problem because GTR may only give you 14 or 21 days in which to reply, and if receiving no reply then escalate matters.

You could (and should) send an email as @John R suggests in post #4 however they may not match up the email to your incident correctly and the jeopardy would still be there. It does read though from the gtr website, which @John R has quoted, that they are aware of the issue and that would imply that they do endeavour to match up those emails with the correct incident file.

Thank you both for your help. I will admit I did email that address already, on the advice of the ticket inspector (she told me to explain my situation to them), but heard no reply. Does anyone know how long GTR usually take to send out such emails? I'll email them the following:

Dear whomever it may concern,

I am emailing regarding a fare evasion incident I was involved in on 10/08/2024. I wish to clarify my address as I have not yet heard from you: ADDRESS. I would also like to note that I will be away from this address between 01/09/2024 and 05/10/2024, and so if your letter should arrive during that time, I will be unable to reply until 05/10/2024. Please accept my apologies, I endeavour to be cooperative and will respond as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

 

[John R]

The previous one might have a) been actioned b) still be pending or c) deleted, if you went into the sort of detail that they say will result in deletion.

However, the new one if much more concise and to the point, and if nothing else shows that you have tried to alert them to the delay, should the worst happen and you do get a letter in that period that they expect a quick answer to. The only thing I would add is maybe to say that they can of course email you, if they wish you to respond without delay.

 

[cs578]

Great. Thank you @John R and @Titfield , your advice has helped to put my mind at ease. I won't attempt this kind of thing again

 

[bcarmicle]

I would strongly encourage you to come back once you do hear from GTR (if you ever do). The reason I say this is because Kentish Town does not have ticket retailing facilities at present, and so I think it would be hard to make out an offence under the Railway Byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act.

 

[Haywain]

I showed her a ticket that I had bought whilst on the train

Was that a ticket which covered the whole journey? Did you only buy it when you were aware of the ticket inspection?

 

[Hadders]

There's little point in contacting GTR before you receive their letter.

Is there anyone else that can open your mail for you while you are away and send you a copy of it?

 

[cs578]

I would strongly encourage you to come back once you do hear from GTR (if you ever do). The reason I say this is because Kentish Town does not have ticket retailing facilities at present, and so I think it would be hard to make out an offence under the Railway Byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act.

The issue was more to do with not having a valid ticket for my journey, and being stopped by a ticket inspector. I could not present a valid ticket at inspection so this was the issue rather than anything to do with Kentish Town

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

Was that a ticket which covered the whole journey? Did you only buy it when you were aware of the ticket inspection?

Yes I bought it once aware of the inspection, and so the time of purchase showed up as 1 minute prior to the inspection

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

There's little point in contacting GTR before you receive their letter.

Is there anyone else that can open your mail for you while you are away and send you a copy of it?

Potentially there is. I was also wondering about writing a letter beforehand and asking someone to post it when the letter does arrive (I'll be able to know when the letter arrives even when I'm away)

Do GTR expect my response to be written on the back of the letter they send, or can a letter be sent in response on a separate piece of paper?

 

[Haywain]

So the problem here is that you had the means to buy a ticket but didn't until the ticket inspection. It's far too late now, but it would have been better not to have done that as you couldn't be penalised for not buying a ticket when there were no facilities to do so. Fortunately, you are dealing with GTR who are more pragmatic, or lenient, than most train companies so this should not prove too expensive. Expect to have to pay up to £100 to resolve the matter, assuming there isn't any aggravating facts you haven't told us.

 

[WesternLancer]

Do GTR expect my response to be written on the back of the letter they send, or can a letter be sent in response on a separate piece of paper?

They want what they have sent you sent back but it is often said here that it is OK to attach a separate bit of paper with your response typed on that but include your ref number and address and attach it to what they have sent you when you send that back - you need to complete the bits of info what they are asking you to complete and sign it and state 'please see attached' if part of your response is on a separate bit of paper (sign that too) so they know there was indeed a written response submitted in case papers get separated by mistake in their offices.

Keep copies of everything sent.

Send it tracked post so you can check it gets there.

Potentially there is. I was also wondering about writing a letter beforehand and asking someone to post it when the letter does arrive (I'll be able to know when the letter arrives even when I'm away)

The problem is they need info in your response that is on the form they send you (including a signature I think) so that makes this tricky, but I guess if the person who can open your post can scan it and send it you by e-mail you could print it wherever you are and fill that in, scan it and send it back your friend for them to print your reply form and post it for you in the UK. But it all makes it more complicated.

 

[cs578]

So the problem here is that you had the means to buy a ticket but didn't until the ticket inspection. It's far too late now, but it would have been better not to have done that as you couldn't be penalised for not buying a ticket when there were no facilities to do so. Fortunately, you are dealing with GTR who are more pragmatic, or lenient, than most train companies so this should not prove too expensive. Expect to have to pay up to £100 to resolve the matter, assuming there isn't any aggravating facts you haven't told us.

Yes I understand that, the inspector told me so - but that's my own fault. There was a brief period where the inspector thought I was trying to change my address (I genuinely wasn't, I just couldn't find proof of address anywhere) but I think we came to a mutual understanding. Thank you for this information, it's really helping me in this situation!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2024 ==

They want what they have sent you sent back but it is often said here that it is OK to attach a separate bit of paper with your response typed on that but include your ref number and address and attach it to what they have sent you when you send that back - you need to complete the bits of info what they are asking you to complete and sign it and state 'please see attached' if part of your response is on a separate bit of paper (sign that too) so they know there was indeed a written response submitted in case papers get separated by mistake in their offices.

Keep copies of everything sent.

Send it tracked post so you can check it gets there.

Thank you. This complicates things if my letter arrives whilst I am away, and I'm still not quite sure what to do if that happens, as there will be no way of me writing on the letter and signing it within the 14-21 day period in which they expect a response. Might it be an idea notify them of an address change, stating that the original address will be unoccupied until 05/10/2024 and to expect a response as soon as possible after then?

Does anyone know if it is 14-21 days or working days? if it is working days that would give me a bit more time, but it seems unlikely given they have stated in multiples of 7

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. This complicates things if my letter arrives whilst I am away, and I'm still not quite sure what to do if that happens, as there will be no way of me writing on the letter and signing it within the 14-21 day period in which they expect a response.

You might just have to do the best you can - ie write a letter that includes all the info requested on the form, with all their ref numbers, signed and send it to them without their original form included perhaps. Their form is there to ensure they get the information they need and to help them process cases without things getting lost etc. I doubt it is legally required to use the form to respond, it's juts a good idea to do so.

Might it be an idea notify them of an address change, stating that the original address will be unoccupied until 05/10/2024 and to expect a response as soon as possible after then?

I note you are going away very soon. Will you be returning to that address or a different one on 5/10/24? You have already asked them to note different contact details, you have someone who can check your post. Not sure what else you can do. If an address change is helpful to them to know, then I would say yes, send it. Keep proof of everything you send them so that if things did go wrong you can at least show you tried to be helpful to them.

Does anyone know if it is 14-21 days or working days? if it is working days that would give me a bit more time, but it seems unlikely given they have stated in multiples of 7

I do not think it is working days - other threads have copies of the standard letter GTR (is that the correct railway company that stopped you?) sends out and chances are you will just initially get the standard letter. If you find a copy to someone else it will give you an idea.

 

[cs578]

I note you are going away very soon. Will you be returning to that address or a different one on 5/10/24? You have already asked them to note different contact details, you have someone who can check your post. Not sure what else you can do. If an address change is helpful to them to know, then I would say yes, send it. Keep proof of everything you send them so that if things did go wrong you can at least show you tried to be helpful to them.

I will be returning to the same address on 05/10/2024. My current thinking is to write a letter using previous letters from GTR I have found on here as a template, and to give it to a field who can send it once I have confirmation that the letter from GTR has arrived at my home address. I will be out of the country, so sending a letter myself will be almost impossible.

I did receive a response from the prosecutions team via email this morning (that wasn't just an automatic response), but it wasn't particularly helpful regarding my situation of being out of the country: Thank you for your email. We are a very busy team, and it can be a little while before we receive the inspector's reports and process them. You will receive correspondence in due course via the address given to the revenue member of staff at the time. I think I will just have to write a letter in advance and have a friend send it off once I know that the letter from GTR has arrived.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will be returning to the same address on 05/10/2024. My current thinking is to write a letter using previous letters from GTR I have found on here as a template, and to give it to a field who can send it once I have confirmation that the letter from GTR has arrived at my home address. I will be out of the country, so sending a letter myself will be almost impossible.

I did receive a response from the prosecutions team via email this morning (that wasn't just an automatic response), but it wasn't particularly helpful regarding my situation of being out of the country: Thank you for your email. We are a very busy team, and it can be a little while before we receive the inspector's reports and process them. You will receive correspondence in due course via the address given to the revenue member of staff at the time. I think I will just have to write a letter in advance and have a friend send it off once I know that the letter from GTR has arrived.

Well I would say that your approach is better than not being able to respond to them and as you have explained your options are limited due to being away.

If you do end up getting a friend to post it for you make sure they get a postal tracking service from the post office when they send it so that you can log on to the Royal Mail website and check that your reply has been delivered. Make sure copies of all paperwork are kept safe for you.

 

[cs578]

I'm also planning on emailing them the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My query refers to me being absent from the address given to the revenue member of staff (ADDRESS) for a period of time. I will leave this address on 01/09/2024, but I shall return to the same address on 05/10/2024. During this period of time, I will be outside of the UK, so am unable to provide an address for this time. I am concerned that the letter I am anticipating will arrive during this time and will expect a response from me within a fixed time frame, and that I will be unable to respond during that time frame due to being out of the country. Please let me know what the best course of action would be for this issue.

Kind regards,

 

[Haywain]

I'm also planning on emailing them the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My query refers to me being absent from the address given to the revenue member of staff (ADDRESS) for a period of time. I will leave this address on 01/09/2024, but I shall return to the same address on 05/10/2024. During this period of time, I will be outside of the UK, so am unable to provide an address for this time. I am concerned that the letter I am anticipating will arrive during this time and will expect a response from me within a fixed time frame, and that I will be unable to respond during that time frame due to being out of the country. Please let me know what the best course of action would be for this issue.

Kind regards,

You could ask that any letter sent to you is also emailed to you, then you can respond.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm also planning on emailing them the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My query refers to me being absent from the address given to the revenue member of staff (ADDRESS) for a period of time. I will leave this address on 01/09/2024, but I shall return to the same address on 05/10/2024. During this period of time, I will be outside of the UK, so am unable to provide an address for this time. I am concerned that the letter I am anticipating will arrive during this time and will expect a response from me within a fixed time frame, and that I will be unable to respond during that time frame due to being out of the country. Please let me know what the best course of action would be for this issue.

Kind regards,

If you are going to email them that why not include a request for them to contact you by e-mail as part of that message (and state your e-mail address in it very clearly) - I can't see any harm in requesting that.

EG 'I would be grateful if you could contact me by e-mail so I can be sure to receive your correspondence and respond to it without delay.
My e-mal address is:..................'

 

[cs578]

Great, thank you so much for your help guys!

 

[Hadders]

If you're leaving a letter for a friend to post for you, could you ask them to write the case reference number on the top of it for you before they post it.