Emergency Procedures on Trains..

[AlterEgo]

it's not fun to be threatened at work. Will never forget desperately trying not to gag on a double-barrelled sawn-off shotgun that had been thrust into my mouth. Hearing the dull thump of metal against skull and seeing, out of the corner of my eye, my boss slump to the ground after being pistol-whipped didn't inspire confidence either.

what????

 

[Striker]

Reasonable force is not stabbing an unarmed assailant

What if he managed to get the knife back off you? Then he'd be armed and previously shown that he's willing to use the knife. Only in this country would people stick up for the rights of the lunatic with the knife.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What if he managed to get the knife back off you? Then he'd be armed and previously shown that he's willing to use the knife. Only in this country would people stick up for the rights of the lunatic with the knife.

I think you'll find in most of the western world stabbing an unarmed assailant is considered unreasonable.

 

[Hydro]

I think you'll find in most of the western world stabbing an unarmed assailant is considered unreasonable.

Unless it's Piers Morgan.

 

[The_Stig]

I think you'll find in most of the western world stabbing an unarmed assailant is considered unreasonable.

If a guy brings on a knife with intent to use it he is not unarmed.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If a guy brings on a knife with intent to use it he is not unarmed.

If you have the knife, then the assailant is unarmed - as you have the offending weapon.

 

[jon0844]

Even though this thread seems like a wind up, with the suggestion that while someone is right in front of you with a knife after stabbing loads of people, you call a ticket inspector or wonder if there's an emergency alarm, I believe that one thing you can do is pick up a seat base and use that as a shield.

It's what I've seen trainee RPIs being told, as the seat bases come up quite easily (well, actually the seat backs do too, as I noticed when I knocked one accidentally and it came off!) on certain stock. In this case, it was National Express telling RPIs on a 317.

The metal/wood that holds the seat base in place even acts a makeshift handle, giving you a rather cheesy but effective shield. If enough people did this, I am sure you'd be able to force the offender back. Okay, maybe the base wouldn't be strong enough for a massive knife, sword, axe or sub-machine gun, but it's better than your bare hands or arms!

Personally, I'd be texting Chuck Norris though as it would be far more effective.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You'd have a bit of trouble trying Jon's method on a Desiro!

I'm afraid I still think hiding underneath the seat is the best option!

 

[The_Stig]

If you have the knife, then the assailant is unarmed - as you have the offending weapon.

I am sure that he would just give up then.

If such an event did happen the person in question would no doubt have more than one weapon.

 

[bAzTNM]

Call the BTP, somewhat obviously.

Why couldn't they just phone the regular police and have them wait at the nearest station?
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Even though this thread seems like a wind up

Definately not a wind up. I was just spicing up the example to make the topic seem interesting.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I am sure that he would just give up then.

Doesn't matter. He's still unarmed.

If such an event did happen the person in question would no doubt have more than one weapon.

I doubt it. And even if the assailant did it's not an excuse to go all stabby. You should be applying the minimum amount of force necessary to stop the attack. Stabbing does not account for that. Punching his lights out and sitting on him would.
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I should add as a footnote, reasonable force does not mean an eye for an eye.

 

[The_Stig]

I doubt it. And even if the assailant did it's not an excuse to go all stabby. You should be applying the minimum amount of force necessary to stop the attack. Stabbing does not account for that. Punching his lights out and sitting on him would.

Ah, good, all I need to do is knock him out. Much easier.

 

[Fincra5]

Whack him with the advantix machine...

Honestly I would have no idea, probably try to isolate him in a carriage, there would only be so much one could do without putting yourself in danger.

 

[Yew]

I would call the spanish Inquisition!

They would run to the tube stop, catch a train to KX/STP, get a HST up to nottinghamshire, then a bus from nottingham to the next station is next. Help could be there within a maximum of 3 1/2 hours

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Ah, good, all I need to do is knock him out. Much easier.

Probably is. Much easier to do that than wrestle for a weapon. There are lots of items to do that available to a guard, or a passenger, with minimal effort.

The fact that you are so eager to go all gung-ho into a situation, as you're a "Rail Support Officer" (IIRC) worries me.

 

[The_Stig]

I should add as a footnote, reasonable force does not mean an eye for an eye.

True, but then I wouldn't go and stab the rest of the people on the train.

I think you have too much belief in yourself if you think that you could batter the guy and be done with it. He obviously does not give two hoots for the 'rules of engagement' and would not think twice about doing whatever to you.

I am not saying mortally wound him, cut his ears off and keep for a trophy. I am talking about hurting him and making him stay down.
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as you're a "Rail Support Officer" (IIRC) worries me.

What do you mean?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I think you have too much belief in yourself if you think that you could batter the guy and be done with it. He obviously does not give two hoots for the 'rules of engagement' and would not think twice about doing whatever to you.

I don't at all. If you read my posts you will see that my first action will probably be to hide under a seat! That does not take away from the fact that there are many handy implements in a train to knock someone out. Escape ladders, crowbar, fire extinguisher, Avantix, Bardic etc....

I am not saying mortally wound him, cut his ears off and keep for a trophy. I am talking about hurting him and making him stay down.

Good, but then you shouldn't be talking about hurting him either. You should be thinking about the minimal amount of force needed to stop the crime being committed.
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What do you mean?

I mean that you're likely to end up dead (and then be in a position to help no one) if you run into situations like this all guns blazing. No policeman would run into something like this, they'd await appropriate backup. There was a video going round Facebook yesterday of them trying to arrest a person holding a machete in London. They contained him, and not one went close to him until they had enough coppers and plastic shields to go in and hold him against a wall and disarm him.

 

[GB]

I am not saying mortally wound him, cut his ears off and keep for a trophy. I am talking about hurting him and making him stay down.

Any sort of wound inflicted by a knife to the extent of "keeping him down" can be potentially life threatening and using a defense of "he might have another knife" will not hold up in court.

 

[The_Stig]

Good, but then you shouldn't be talking about hurting him either. You should be thinking about the minimal amount of force needed to stop the crime being committed.

Ah, ok. Misunderstood.

Lets hope nobody needs to find out how they will react.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Ah, ok. Misunderstood.

Lets hope nobody needs to find out how they will react.

I hope I don't have to. And, personally, if it did, I'd run as fast as I could in the other direction!

 

[bAzTNM]

I would also hide away from any raving lunatic trying to get me. I'd try and lock myself in the toilets, like a lot of fare-dodgers do, to hide away from the guy. I'd let anybody else that wants to hide in to. It would be a tight squeeze, but we'd be safe.

 

[scotsman]

I would also hide away from any raving lunatic trying to get me. I'd try and lock myself in the toilets, like a lot of fare-dodgers do, to hide away from the guy. I'd let anybody else that wants to hide in to. It would be a tight squeeze, but we'd be safe.

Imagine it was the disabled toilet, the terror of watching him come flying down the carriage, knife raised in the air, as the little door slowly wheedled shut....

 

[ainsworth74]

Imagine it was the disabled toilet, the terror of watching him come flying down the carriage, knife raised in the air, as the little door slowly wheedled shut....

It would be like something out of a truly terrible horror film

 

[Flamingo]

I'd pull out my even bigger knife! Seriously, there are all sort of things on a train that will make improvised protection / defence weapons. And no, I'm not listing them!

 

[ainsworth74]

Well personally I would pull out my AK-47 that I carry round in my back pack and then hope that the guy would remember that foolishness of bringing a knife to a gun fight

More seriously however I would like to think that I would try and disarm the guy but to be honest I have no idea never having been in that sort of situation (and I don't plan on being in it anytime soon).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well personally I would pull out my AK-47 that I carry round in my back pack and then hope that the guy would remember that foolishness of bringing a knife to a gun fight

Where's that line from? I swear I've read/heard that recently...

Anyway, if he came near me, I'd smack him round the head with my rucksack full of Quail maps and FGW timetables.

 

[jon0844]

Why couldn't they just phone the regular police and have them wait at the nearest station?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Definately not a wind up. I was just spicing up the example to make the topic seem interesting.

It's a clear wind-up because you said the person had gone through stabbing everyone and you're next. How exactly do you then have time to say 'hold on' while you go and find a ticket inspector? And what exactly does s/he do? They're not armed and don't bear body armour!

And if you are asking if there's an emergency alarm, I guess you've never been on a train before - or never looked around and read the safety instructions. Common sense tells you to look at the basics on a train (like a bus, coach, plane) so you're at far more risk from things OTHER than a knife-wielding maniac.

Imagine it was the disabled toilet, the terror of watching him come flying down the carriage, knife raised in the air, as the little door slowly wheedled shut....

If it was a two-week old 377/5, it wouldn't actually close at all and get stuck half way!

 

[bAzTNM]

It's a clear wind-up because you said the person had gone through stabbing everyone and you're next. How exactly do you then have time to say 'hold on' while you go and find a ticket inspector?

It's not a wind-up.

He could be wiping the blood from his brow, taking a ****, whatever, leaving me enough time to find a conductor.

 

[Greenback]

Even if it's not a wind up, it is still a pretty strange question to ask!

 

[jon0844]

It's not a wind-up.

He could be wiping the blood from his brow, taking a ****, whatever, leaving me enough time to find a conductor.

Erm, okay.

Did this forum recently merge with Digital Spy?