Idea to switch Transpennine new trains with LNER

[Halifaxlad]

Here is an idea born out of various threads on stock orders for HS2.

As we all know Transpennine are procuring new trains for Transpennine route despite only doing so a few years ago.

HS2 isnt going to reach Leeds or go from Leeds to Newcastle, which wouldn't have achieved much difference in the North anyway except faster journeys to London.

Here is the idea..

Why not procure longer trains for LNER (say 300m) as that is about what you could fit at Kings Cross, York, Darlington and Newcastle without major works. Lengthen other stations as neccesary.

Then existing LNER units go to Transpennine. They are modern, new but rather importantly already have ETCS fitted (unless Im wrong) the bi-mode units are ideal for operating on TP as the wiring picks up.

Other key notes is that the 5 cars are the same length as the services they wish to procure. Huddersfield is being designed to fit 200m length trains so even if they ran in pairs it shouldnt be much of a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A similar one I thought of was:

397s to LNER (they have after all ordered from CAF - it could have been done instead of that) - run in pairs
Avanti take over Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland using 807s, providing much needed capacity

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A similar one I thought of was:

397s to LNER (they have after all ordered from CAF - it could have been done instead of that) - run in pairs
Avanti take over Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland using 807s, providing much needed capacity

Oxford Road is 162m max, 807s would be 182m. 6-car (156m) would work (397/80x).
Airport is 196m min.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here is an idea born out of various threads on stock orders for HS2.

As we all know Transpennine are procuring new trains for Transpennine route despite only doing so a few years ago.

HS2 isnt going to reach Leeds or go from Leeds to Newcastle, which wouldn't have achieved much difference in the North anyway except faster journeys to London.

Here is the idea..

Why not procure longer trains for LNER (say 300m) as that is about what you could fit at Kings Cross, York, Darlington and Newcastle without major works. Lengthen other stations as neccesary.

Then existing LNER units go to Transpennine. They are modern, new but rather importantly already have ETCS fitted (unless Im wrong) the bi-mode units are ideal for operating on TP as the wiring picks up.

Other key notes is that the 5 cars are the same length as the services they wish to procure. Huddersfield is being designed to fit 200m length trains so even if they ran in pairs it shouldnt be much of a problem.

It’s not necessarily that easy, Kings Cross platforms 0-8 vary from 303m max down to 269m. All can take 10 x 26m, and some 11 x 26m, but AFAICR only one can theoretically take a 300m train.

But my question would be why not transfer a few (3 or 4?) existing TPE units in the opposite direction to LNER and have them run the Newcastle - Berwick - Edinburgh semifasts? It’s no longer geographically a “transpennine” service, TPE only seem to have won it because they had the trains, staff and depot contract at Craigentinny. That should be fixable…

 

[778]

A similar one I thought of was:

397s to LNER (they have after all ordered from CAF - it could have been done instead of that) - run in pairs
Avanti take over Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland using 807s, providing much needed capacity

Not sure there is enough 807s for that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==

Then existing LNER units go to Transpennine. They are modern, new but rather importantly already have ETCS fitted (unless Im wrong) the bi-mode units are ideal for operating on TP as the wiring picks up.

Maybe the LNER units could go to cross country instead. It would get rid of a lot diesel running under wires and would be an increase in capacity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oxford Road is 162m max, 807s would be 182m. 6-car (156m) would work (397/80x).
Airport is 196m min.

Traditionally Scotland services didn't stop at Oxford Road anyway, this only started when TPE took it over and started using 185s, so the capacity with the stop dropped would be preferable to the lack of capacity and keeping it. There are enough other trains between there and Piccadilly/Preston for it not to be a major problem. It can always be reinstated if/when the planned Oxford Road works give it 200m platforms.

They're about 180m long so would fit in the airport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==

Not sure there is enough 807s for that?

There are if the second Liverpool never happens or uses 805s due to the power issues. Manchester-Edinburgh takes 3.5 hours so it's about an 8 hour cycle, there are conveniently 8 units. Admittedly it does mean if there was a fault or maintenance something else (e.g. an 805) would have to be subbed in, but you could probably get away with that at quieter times anyway.

The Liverpool service might be an issue but I question the sense of that anyway.

Could also order a few more.

 

[Gareth]

What have you got against the second Liverpool service? You seem to constantly rail against it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What have you got against the second Liverpool service? You seem to constantly rail against it.

For various reasons I don't think it's likely to happen (unless the LNR Crewe is extended there). Thus I think it's sensible to find uses for the 807s, and the Manchester-Scotland service is way under capacity at 5-car, it needs to be longer.

I'm similarly unconvinced of the need for the third Birmingham which was to be the other use for them - people won't pay Avanti's fares and have deserted to Chiltern and LNR in droves.

 

[Gareth]

For various reasons I don't think it's likely to happen (unless the LNR Crewe is extended there).

So you're not against it happening on principle then? Because there's far more chance of it happening than an extension of the slow LNR service. The former is an official proposal that's even had rolling stock procured for it whilst I've only seen the latter suggested on here (possibly only by yourself).

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you're not against it happening on principle then?

No. I just think there are problems that make it unlikely pre-HS2.