ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[EMU303]

I was in Edinburgh today and noted the current timetable states no train to Queen St via Falkirk High at 21.45, so planned to get the 22.15. But arriving early at Waverley up popped the 21.45 on platform 8. Do Scotrail run some additional services which are not included in the current timetable?

Edinburgh	d	18:15	18:45	19:15	19:45	20:15	21:15	22:15	22:45
Haymarket	d	18:20	18:50	19:20	19:49	20:20	21:21	22:19	22:51
Linlithgow	d	18:34	19:06	19:33	20:04	20:33	21:37	22:33	23:07
Polmont	d	18:39	19:11	19:39	20:09	20:39	21:42	22:38	23:13
Falkirk High	d	18:44	19:16	19:43	20:14	20:43	21:47	22:43	23:17
Croy	d	18:53	19:25	19:52	20:23	20:52	21:56	22:52	23:26
Lenzie	a	・
Bishopbriggs	a
Glasgow Queen St	a	19:06			19:36 20:04 20:34 21:05		22:08	23:04	23:38

 

[chuff chuff]

Drivers talks now moved to Monday.

 

[gomango]

I was in Edinburgh today and noted the current timetable states no train to Queen St via Falkirk High at 21.45, so planned to get the 22.15. But arriving early at Waverley up popped the 21.45 on platform 8. Do Scotrail run some additional services which are not included in the current timetable?

Edinburgh	d	18:15	18:45	19:15	19:45	20:15	21:15	22:15	22:45
Haymarket	d	18:20	18:50	19:20	19:49	20:20	21:21	22:19	22:51
Linlithgow	d	18:34	19:06	19:33	20:04	20:33	21:37	22:33	23:07
Polmont	d	18:39	19:11	19:39	20:09	20:39	21:42	22:38	23:13
Falkirk High	d	18:44	19:16	19:43	20:14	20:43	21:47	22:43	23:17
Croy	d	18:53	19:25	19:52	20:23	20:52	21:56	22:52	23:26
Lenzie	a	・
Bishopbriggs	a
Glasgow Queen St	a	19:06			19:36 20:04 20:34 21:05		22:08	23:04	23:38

Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh is now every 30 minutes in the evening because of the festival timetable.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Still think it's funny how they can find the resources to support the festival when so many other lines see little or no service on some days

 

[EMU303]

Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh is now every 30 minutes in the evening because of the festival timetable.

Good to know, thanks. Better if Scotrail actually reflected that fact in their timetable.

 

[najaB]

Still think it's funny how they can find the resources to support the festival when so many other lines see little or no service on some days

The Edinburgh festivals bring something on the order of £900M into the Scottish economy, so prioritising services to minimise disruption makes sense. The money to pay the drivers has to come from somewhere!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Noticed on Monday that the last train (of only three in the special timetable) from Kyle of Lochalsh to Inverness was cancelled, meaning no service at all after 1346.

 

[John Bishop]

Reading reports on FB of BTP being called to Edinburgh Waverley this evening to deal with a huge overcrowding issue on the last 2 services north of Edinburgh (LNER and XC). Scotrail has no services operating north to Dundee or beyond after 1705 (3 car). A large number of passengers were forced to leave the trains and were unable to travel. Last departure today to Dundee/ Aberdeen is at 1835 (LNER). Given the festival is in full force, this is pretty poor.

 

[snookertam]

Reading reports on FB of BTP being called to Edinburgh Waverley this evening to deal with a huge overcrowding issue on the last 2 services north of Edinburgh (LNER and XC). Scotrail has no services operating north to Dundee or beyond after 1705 (3 car). A large number of passengers were forced to leave the trains and were unable to travel. Last departure today to Dundee/ Aberdeen is at 1835 (LNER). Given the festival is in full force, this is pretty poor.

It’s worse than pretty poor, it’s exceptionally poor, potentially critically reputation damaging. Yet nobody at ScotRail is the slightest bit embarrassed about this state of affairs.

 

[najaB]

Yet nobody at ScotRail is the slightest bit embarrassed about this state of affairs.

How do you know that? Have you spoken with every single member of staff?

 

[John Bishop]

It’s worse than pretty poor, it’s exceptionally poor, potentially critically reputation damaging. Yet nobody at ScotRail is the slightest bit embarrassed about this state of affairs.

Agreed. I just noticed as well that the last train to any station north of Aberdeen was 1800. I must say, the political silence is deafening. There must be a sizeable effect on business trade associated with the current situation.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The political silence is deafening because they made such a lot of exceptionally loud noise. When this newly nationalised operation followed with a little less pump and ceremony, some months later by the sleeper was launched. Now it's hit the buffers on more than one occasion and this time looks as if dislodging it from the warm comforting embrace of said buffers might be a much larger engineering project than anticipated in terms of industrial relations and increasingly public relations. That to say anything would surely lay them open to criticism from one side or another?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I have just come back from Scotland, and I hadn't realised the sheer contempt the locals have for Scotrail. I'm not sure how they might come back from this, their reputation, such as it was, is in tatters.
The car hire company we used were very pleased though, they have never been so busy. They were getting full bonuses as trade was busier than anyone had ever imagined it could ever be!
Talking with the local bus drivers, they were very pleased, their pay rate has risen and there is lots of overtime. They claim to be earning more than Scotrail train drivers now and were very proud of this fact! There will always be winners in any situation, and it seems bus drivers and car hire companies are currently laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[380101]

I have just come back from Scotland, and I hadn't realised the sheer contempt the locals have for Scotrail. I'm not sure how they might come back from this, their reputation, such as it was, is in tatters.
The car hire company we used were very pleased though, they have never been so busy. They were getting full bonuses as trade was busier than anyone had ever imagined it could ever be!
Talking with the local bus drivers, they were very pleased, their pay rate has risen and there is lots of overtime. They claim to be earning more than Scotrail train drivers now and were very proud of this fact! There will always be winners in any situation, and it seems bus drivers and car hire companies are currently laughing all the way to the bank.

I'd be very surprised if "local bus drivers" were now earning more than ScotRail drivers - a basic salary of £58,581 a year plus contracted Sundays - unless they are breaking driving hours rules to do loads of overtime.

 

[Carntyne]

How do you know that? Have you spoken with every single member of staff?

Some of us train crew are. You would be hard pushed to see a senior manager or director who had commented though. Never mind the transport minister.

 

[najaB]

Some of us train crew are. You would be hard pushed to see a senior manager or director who had commented though.

I suspect that they're not being allowed to speak.

 

[chuff chuff]

I suspect that they're not being allowed to speak.

The Scottish Government/transport scotland tightly control scotrail and its negotiations with the unions even though they say it's a matter for scotrail to deal with.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

There must be a sizeable effect on business trade associated with the current situation.

Absolutely, I dont drive and we had about 3 day trips to various places planned and just haven't done them due to the rediculous lack of trains. Timetables where you can get somewhere in the morning then never get back again.

People here are just fed up, you will not get some of these people back on the railway

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'd be very surprised if "local bus drivers" were now earning more than ScotRail drivers - a basic salary of £58,581 a year plus contracted Sundays - unless they are breaking driving hours rules to do loads of overtime.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, they have certainly had a good pay rise and they are getting bonuses. At the end of the day the bus company need to retain them right now. If it all lasts remains to be seen, but right now they are lapping it up. And with no end in sight at Scotrail, they are looking to retain passengers long term, so the future looks rosy for them.

 

[najaB]

People here are just fed up, you will not get some of these people back on the railway

The collective public has a short memory. It might take a few months, but I'm willing to be that if this issue was to be resolved today, next summer's passenger numbers will be right back to normal.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The collective public has a short memory. It might take a few months, but I'm willing to be that if this issue was to be resolved today, next summer's passenger numbers will be right back to normal.

And that is why the bus companies are working so hard to keep their new found travellers. The drivers are going out of their way (not literally on the route!) to provide outstanding service so people will choose to use the bus, even if the train services return. Yes, some will obviously return, but the longer this drags on, the harder it will be to win people back.

 

[najaB]

And that is why the bus companies are working so hard to keep their new found travellers. The drivers are going out of their way (not literally on the route!) to provide outstanding service so people will choose to use the bus, even if the train services return. Yes, some will obviously return, but the longer this drags on, the harder it will be to win people back.

That's true, but it's also the case that for the majority of travellers, the railway provides a more desirable travel experience. The ability to get up and stretch your legs, full sized toilets and an overall smoother ride will always mean that bus and coach services are playing catch-up.

All things being equal (price, journey time, etc) the travelling public will choose train travel over bus, and are usually willing to pay a premium for the train).

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well, for those who are convinced that passengers will return, I don't suppose for a single moment that I'm the only one who is now planning travel into next year based on not using a single Scott rail operated at least train service. I have a visit to the highlands next January, all based around intercity coach travel to and from the key components and flights for the main North South legs

I would like to apologise to all the decent hard-working train crew who are being affected by this and will inevitably suffer in some way or other because of the decisions that I and others make about future travel arrangements. But as another poster points out, the contempt and hatred of Scottish domestic internal rail services is widespread and is going nowhere for the time being not unlike many of the passengers if this thread and media reports are to be believed

 

[najaB]

Well, for those who are convinced that passengers will return, I don't suppose for a single moment that I'm the only one who is now planning travel into next year based on not using a single Scott rail operated at least train service. I have a visit to the highlands next January, all based around intercity coach travel to and from the key components and flights for the main North South legs

I don't doubt at all that there are some people who will have been put off the railway for the long term. However, I also don't doubt that you're in the minority. For most regular passengers, the railway (in normal times) offers the best or (possibly only feasible) option for their travel. Commuter services into Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen aren't going to easily be replaced by bus services due to the unpredictability of traffic congestion, and there are a fair number of occasional travellers who haven't suffered massively during the industrial action since most of their travel is discretionary.

And that's without considering the masses of tourists who use services over the summer - those making trips to Scotland in 2025 and onwards have no idea at all what's happened in 2023/24 and so it will have zero impact on their decision to use the railway.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Reading reports on FB of BTP being called to Edinburgh Waverley this evening to deal with a huge overcrowding issue on the last 2 services north of Edinburgh (LNER and XC). Scotrail has no services operating north to Dundee or beyond after 1705 (3 car). A large number of passengers were forced to leave the trains and were unable to travel. Last departure today to Dundee/ Aberdeen is at 1835 (LNER). Given the festival is in full force, this is pretty poor.

It’s worse than pretty poor, it’s exceptionally poor, potentially critically reputation damaging. Yet nobody at ScotRail is the slightest bit embarrassed about this state of affairs.

Citylink would have done well if they'd had someone with a big sign standing in or next to the station advertising their coaches going north.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I don't doubt at all that there are some people who will have been put off the railway for the long term. However, I also don't doubt that you're in the minority. For most regular passengers, the railway (in normal times) offers the best or (possibly only feasible) option for their travel. Commuter services into Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen aren't going to easily be replaced by bus services due to the unpredictability of traffic congestion, and there are a fair number of occasional travellers who haven't suffered massively during the industrial action since most of their travel is discretionary.

And that's without considering the masses of tourists who use services over the summer - those making trips to Scotland in 2025 and onwards have no idea at all what's happened in 2023/24 and so it will have zero impact on their decision to use the railway.

You haven't been on any tourist websites have you? Anyone planning a trip to Scotland will be constantly reminded to avoid Scotrail at all costs. Try booking any accomodation, even next year, without being told to avoid travelling by Scotrail. Don't under estimate the damage being caused and peoples deep loathing for Scotrail.

 

[swaldman]

The big thing that trains offer and buses/coaches don't is the ability to sit at a table and work on a laptop en route. For all-day journeys within Scotland, that's important. It turns an otherwise wasted day into a precious working day. If it becomes unavailable in the future I suspect I won't end up on coaches much. I will travel less, and mostly when I have to travel I will fly. And I will mourn the rail services.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The big thing that trains offer and buses/coaches don't is the ability to sit at a table and work on a laptop en route.

They don't though. The train is often so full (because there are so few of them) that the table isn't accessible. A lot of the long distance coaches and buses have tables, and you know no one will be standing and leaning on it, or it is filled with luggage. Buses and coaches have really upped their game in recent years.

 

[swaldman]

They don't though. The train is often so full (because there are so few of them) that the table isn't accessible. A lot of the long distance coaches and buses have tables, and you know no one will be standing and leaning on it, or it is filled with luggage. Buses and coaches have really upped their game in recent years.

I agree that that is a tremendous problem with Scotrail overcrowding, and more generally with the seat pitch on British trains meaning that if you don't get a table you can't work. It's not a problem in most of Europe, where even standard class airline seats are far enough apart for a laptop.

Last time I took a Scottish Citylink service it was a standard old (and I mean old) coach and it broke down half way. But that was a few years ago.
I've never encountered tables on coaches outside of certain "Gold" services, plus airport shuttles. But if that's a thing now, great. I mean I'll still mourn trains because of the other reasons folk have given, plus lower carbon footprint, but that's a big deal if one can work.

 

[GordonT]

The intercity coach provision in Scotland is experiencing some growth with the emergence of Ember and Flixbus.