Advice for Southeastern Prosecution Letter

[AMM]

Dear all,

In June, I was stopped by inspectors at Charing Cross Station. During the stop, they presented my travel history and evidence that I had been engaging in what is known as "short ticketing" for several months. I was honest with the inspectors and admitted my mistake on the spot.

I received a prosecution letter today, and I'm feeling really anxious. I’m genuinely worried that, given the number of times I’ve made this mistake which they have records of, my case may not be considered for settlement.

I’ve put together a response to the letter, but I would be truly grateful for any advice or guidance you could offer:

On June 25th, I was stopped at Charing Cross Station for attempting to exit with a “short ticket.” Upon checking my invalid ticket and reviewing the evidence provided by the inspectors, I admitted that this was not the first time I had attempted to avoid paying the full fare.

First and foremost, I would like to offer my sincere apologies for my actions. I deeply regret my behavior and am committed to never repeating it. I have not engaged in such conduct since the incident.

I frequently travel between Kent and London via Southeastern. Due to financial difficulties, I made the regrettable decision to purchase a short ticket from London Bridge to Charing Cross instead of a full round-trip ticket between XXX and Charing Cross.

Once again, I am truly sorry and deeply embarrassed by my actions. I would be extremely grateful if you could consider settling the case through the payment of the outstanding fares and any administrative costs associated with processing my case.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely and with kind regards,
XXXX

Thank you so much!

 

[AlterEgo]

Were the inspectors lying in wait and confronted you with evidence? As in - they already had it, and didn’t ask you to show your booking apps during the stop? This appears to be an intelligence-led sting if so.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@ammelim. Welcome to the forum. Please could you upload a copy of the letter that you've recently received. Please be sure to obscure or otherwise cover up your name and address and case reference number (if any).

Also, just how far out did your actual journeys start from?

 

[AMM]

Yes, they had all the evidence.

 

[najaB]

Yes, they had all the evidence.

As noted above, it sounds like an evidence-lead case so it's more likely that they'll go for a prosecution than offer a settlement. As a bit of advice:

In June, I was stopped by inspectors at Charing Cross Station. During the stop, they presented my travel history and evidence that I had been engaging in what is known as "short ticketing" for several months. I was honest with the inspectors and admitted my mistake on the spot.

I received a prosecution letter today, and I'm feeling really anxious. I’m genuinely worried that, given the number of times I’ve made this mistake which they have records of, my case may not be considered for settlement.

Avoid using the term 'mistake' to describe what was a conscious decision to short fare. Other than that, your letter seems clear, concise and to the point.

 

[AMM]

As noted above, it sounds like an evidence-lead case so it's more likely that they'll go for a prosecution than offer a settlement. As a bit of advice:

Avoid using the term 'mistake' to describe what was a conscious decision to short fare. Other than that, your letter seems clear, concise and to the point.

Thank you so much for your advice, noted. I’m genuinely so embarrassed and really just want to settle this. Per your experience within cases in the forum do you think I should seek the advice of a solicitor?

 

[Haywain]

I deeply regret my behavior and am committed to never repeating it.

Just say that you will not repeat it, "I am committed" sounds a bit woolly and insincere to me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2024 ==

Per your experience within cases in the forum do you think I should seek the advice of a solicitor?

No need yet, wait and see how they respond to your letter.

 

[najaB]

Per your experience within cases in the forum do you think I should seek the advice of a solicitor?

As @Haywain says, it's a bit early in the process to be instructing a solicitor. Wait and see what the TOC say in reply to your letter.

And, by the way, I wasn't being picky about using the word 'mistake'. While I'm sure you're using it in the sense of "a bad decision in hindsight" it can seem that you're using it in the sense of "a thing that I did accidentally", and you don't want anyone looking at your case to think you mean the latter rather than the former.

 

[AMM]

As @Haywain says, it's a bit early in the process to be instructing a solicitor. Wait and see what the TOC say in reply to your letter.

And, by the way, I wasn't being picky about using the word 'mistake'. While I'm sure you're using it in the sense of "a bad decision in hindsight" it can seem that you're using it in the sense of "a thing that I did accidentally", and you don't want anyone looking at your case to think you mean the latter rather than the former.

Thank you!! Sorry I've used the word mistake on my message here but not on the draft to them. Yes, that's exacly what I meant a terrible decision.

Here is the letter I've draft:

On June 25th, I was stopped at Charing Cross Station for attempting to exit with a “short ticket.” Upon checking my invalid ticket and reviewing the evidence provided by the inspectors, I admitted that this was not the first time I had attempted to avoid paying the full fare.

First and foremost, I want to sincerely apologize for my actions, which I deeply regret. I am truly ashamed of my behavior and can assure you that I will never repeat it.

I frequently travel between Kent and London via Southeastern. Due to financial difficulties, I made the regrettable decision to purchase short tickets from London Bridge to Charing Cross instead of a full round-trip ticket between XXX and Charing Cross.

Once again, I am truly sorry and deeply embarrassed by my actions. I would be extremely grateful if you could consider settling the case through the payment of the outstanding fares and any administrative costs associated with processing my case.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely and with kind regards,
XXXX

 

[najaB]

The letter is okay, it's short and to the point and comes across as if you're sincerely sorry about short faring.

 

[AMM]

Thank you so much for the advice and help. I truly am, this is giving me so much anxiety.

 

[najaB]

Thank you so much for the advice and help. I truly am, this is giving me so much anxiety.

This might be easier to say than to put into practice, but worrying about it is going to achieve absolutely nothing. What is going to happen will happen, and it will happen whether you worry about or not. Just prepare for the worst (a prosecution resulting in a fine in the mid three-figure range plus costs, etc.) and hope for the best (which is also likely to result in a mid three-figure settlement).

 

[ikcdab]

You do need to manage your expectations. If they were "lying in wait" with evidence that you had evaded fares before, then that means they have been tracking you and are taking this very seriously. If that is the case, then a prosecution seems the most likely outcome.

 

[Haywain]

You do need to manage your expectations. If they were "lying in wait" with evidence that you had evaded fares before, then that means they have been tracking you and are taking this very seriously. If that is the case, then a prosecution seems the most likely outcome.

I don’t agree. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the priority is to recover unpaid fares and reduce future evasion.

 

[najaB]

I don’t agree. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the priority is to recover unpaid fares and reduce future evasion.

I think it probably hinges on if they have enough evidence to bring prosecutions for multiple instances, in which case they may be inclined to prosecute in order to make an example of the OP.

Otherwise they might be inclined to go down the settlement route in order to recover losses.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Being brutally honest, if you've been evading your fares on an industrial scale for a sustained period of time and aren't prosecuted, many people would wonder just how bad the level of evasion has to be to end up in court.

This said, Southeastern are normally one of the more pragmatic companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. I think it ws Southeastern who settled with the solicitor who had evaded £30k worth of fares a few years back.

You need to wait and see what Southeastern say in response to your letter. If they do offer you a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days of it being offered - they won't accept payment in installments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you!! Sorry I've used the word mistake on my message here but not on the draft to them. Yes, that's exacly what I meant a terrible decision.

Here is the letter I've draft:

On June 25th, I was stopped at Charing Cross Station for attempting to exit with a “short ticket.” Upon checking my invalid ticket and reviewing the evidence provided by the inspectors, I admitted that this was not the first time I had attempted to avoid paying the full fare.

First and foremost, I want to sincerely apologize for my actions, which I deeply regret. I am truly ashamed of my behavior and can assure you that I will never repeat it.

I frequently travel between Kent and London via Southeastern. Due to financial difficulties, I made the regrettable decision to purchase short tickets from London Bridge to Charing Cross instead of a full round-trip ticket between XXX and Charing Cross.

Once again, I am truly sorry and deeply embarrassed by my actions. I would be extremely grateful if you could consider settling the case through the payment of the outstanding fares and any administrative costs associated with processing my case.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely and with kind regards,
XXXX

This sort of intelligence-led sting is unusual for Southeastern and we don't see many, if any, of these sorts of cases. Essentially you've been followed either in person or CCTV and stopped and confronted by an inspector who has evidence of widespread offending.

They don't do this unless you have been very seriously abusing the system. How many fares did you evade, and what would the likely value be?

I would be cautious in submitting your correspondence just yet. It may transpire that you need to instruct a solicitor.

 

[najaB]

They don't do this unless you have been very seriously abusing the system. How many fares did you evade, and what would the likely value be?

Possibly not a good idea to post this on an open forum.

I would be cautious in submitting your correspondence just yet. It may transpire that you need to instruct a solicitor.

I agree that a solicitor may well be needed, but there's little that a solicitor could do at this stage that the OP can't do for themselves.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I agree that a solicitor may well be needed, but there's little that a solicitor could do at this stage that the OP can't do for themselves.

As an alternative view: if the OP has been fare dodging extensively such that they will likely need a solicitor, it may be better to get a solicitor involved sooner rather than later. The drawback of this is that if the case goes all the way to court then there will be more work to pay the solicitor for than if they're only involved at the last moment: the benefit is that if the railway are prepared to settle out of court then the solicitor may be able to organise this to happen more quickly than it otherwise would.

I'm also conscious that rather like getting a plumber in after you've tried to fix the tap yourself, a solicitor may appreciate not having to undo someone's well-meaning but amateur work in the first place.

 

[najaB]

I'm also conscious that rather like getting a plumber in after you've tried to fix the tap yourself, a solicitor may appreciate not having to undo someone's well-meaning but amateur work in the first place.

I see where you're coming from, but using your analogy, we're at the 'jiggle the tap and see if it stops' stage. What do you suppose that a solicitor could add in their response letter that the OP hasn't already included? (Keeping in mind that the OP would likely be charged anything up to a couple hundred pounds to write the letter!)

The appropriate time to engage a solicitor would be once the TOC says that they intend to prosecute.

 

[AlterEgo]

I see where you're coming from, but using your analogy, we're at the 'jiggle the tap and see if it stops' stage. What do you suppose that a solicitor could add in their response letter that the OP hasn't already included?

Not making any admissions if and until the solicitor has discussed with their client the nature of the evidence against them, for a start.

If it's a serious matter - like, thousands of pounds - my advice would be to stop talking and instruct a solicitor to talk for you.

 

[AMM]

Thank you everyone for the advice. My letter has been sent, along with an email with same response as in the letter. I have already received confirmation that they are reviewing my case. Now, I can only wait for their response before considering involving a solicitor.

 

[CFRAIL]

I'm aware of a case currently ongoing whereby revenue teams are collating data regarding an individual who is short ticketing and are deciding the appropriate time to take action. So these intelligence led instances do happen but they're rare. Presumably it's significant fare evasion over a sustained period of time.

 

[najaB]

Not making any admissions if and until the solicitor has discussed with their client the nature of the evidence against them, for a start.

The problem there is that they already admitted that they had done this multiple times.