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Hi everyone, I received a penalty fare today for buying a valid ticket with a railcard which I didn’t own. Now they might charge me for fraud as I didn’t have a valid railcard for a few journeys I made. I would like to pay the full penalty fare plus any other charges as soon as possible but they didn’t give me any reference numbers to pay them. Would this be a criminal record?
hello, they didn’t give me a copy of the penalty fare. They recorded me and I told them that I won’t be able to pay the fine now but will afterwards because I was running late for work. They haven’t provided me any details
hello, they didn’t give me a copy of the penalty fare. They recorded me and I told them that I won’t be able to pay the fine now but will afterwards because I was running late for work. They haven’t provided me any details
which sounds to me like you may not actually have been issued with a Penalty Fare but perhaps had your details 'taken for investigation'? This is another thing they can do if you have the wrong ticket or a ticket you were not entitled to use. Do you think this might be more likely?
They can't expect you to pay something that you have not been given the details of after all. Which is why I think you might have misunderstood what happened.
Did they take your name and address?
A Penalty Fare involves being given a bit of paper a bit like a ticket with details of the Penalty and the reason why it was issued and how to pay it or how to Appeal it printed on it - did you get anything like that given to you?
What makes you think it was a Penalty Fare? Is it just because you have seen posters at stations about Penalty fares for people who do not have the right ticket (as opposed to whatever you were told today when you were stopped, which they maybe did not explain fully if you were in a hurry)
Sorry for all the questions but it's important to work out what happened so you can get given the best advice as to what will happen next and what you can do about it.
hello, they didn’t give me a copy of the penalty fare. They recorded me and I told them that I won’t be able to pay the fine now but will afterwards because I was running late for work. They haven’t provided me any details
which sounds to me like you may not actually have been issued with a Penalty Fare but perhaps had your details 'taken for investigation'? This is another thing they can do if you have the wrong ticket or a ticket you were not entitled to use. Do you think this might be more likely?
They can't expect you to pay something that you have not been given the details of after all. Which is why I think you might have misunderstood what happened.
Did they take your name and address?
A Penalty Fare involves being given a bit of paper a bit like a ticket with details of the Penalty and the reason why it was issued and how to pay it or how to Appeal it printed on it - did you get anything like that given to you?
What makes you think it was a Penalty Fare? Is it just because you have seen posters at stations about Penalty fares for people who do not have the right ticket (as opposed to whatever you were told today when you were stopped, which they maybe did not explain fully if you were in a hurry)
Sorry for all the questions but it's important to work out what happened so you can get given the best advice as to what will happen next and what you can do about it.
No problem at all, thank you for answering the question and providing me the info. I’ll answer them here:
So, they issued me a penalty fare and asked if I could pay it now. I said I don’t have any time because I was getting late to work but I will. They let me through after that but I didn’t receive any details or the penalty fare ticket. I believe they should’ve given me this or a reference number so I could pay it asap but I was given no information. But no they didn’t physically give me the penalty fare paper with any details so I could atleast pay it later.
Yes they did take my details down, including my address, name and DOB. I recall they said that they’d send me information in the post and it would take a month. I want all the information so I can pay everything off.
My main worry is this ticket inspector said it’ll be a case of fraud because I was using my out of date railcard to buy tickets. I’m incredibly frightened that this will go on my criminal record. He said it’s a civic case, not criminal.
Thank you very much for your help and advice!
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I do not believe that you have been issued a Penalty Fare, if you had you would have been given a piece of paper with information of how to pay. You no longer have the option to pay Penalty Fares on the spot, they're paid afterwards.
Unfortunately it would appear that as your details have been taken they will be investigating and considering whether to bring a criminal (not civil, the inspector was wrong to say it would be civil) act against you. Do you know which company the inspector worked for? Many companies are willing to agree to out of court settlements which would avoid a criminal case and conviction.
The next thing to do is to wait for them to contact you, this will likely be in the form of a letter where they will invite you to provide more information about what happened any mitigation that you would like them to consider before they decide whether to offer an out of court settlement, drop the case entirely or proceed with a prosecution. There is no way of speeding this up, you'll need to wait for them to contact you and it can take a few weeks or months.
I do not believe that you have been issued a Penalty Fare, if you had you would have been given a piece of paper with information of how to pay. You no longer have the option to pay Penalty Fares on the spot, they're paid afterwards.
Unfortunately it would appear that as your details have been taken they will be investigating and considering whether to bring a criminal (not civil, the inspector was wrong to say it would be civil) act against you. Do you know which company the inspector worked for? Many companies are willing to agree to out of court settlements which would avoid a criminal case and conviction.
The next thing to do is to wait for them to contact you, this will likely be in the form of a letter where they will invite you to provide more information about what happened any mitigation that you would like them to consider before they decide whether to offer an out of court settlement, drop the case entirely or proceed with a prosecution. There is no way of speeding this up, you'll need to wait for them to contact you and it can take a few weeks or months.
Thank you for your answer. That’s incredibly disappointing to hear. It was a stupid decision on my part and I didn’t realise it would be this serious. I don’t recall who they worked for but maybe West Midlands railway.
Either way, I gave him the reason as to why I couldn’t pay for the regular tickets. And he said that they’d be able to set up a payment plan for me to pay the money back as well. I kept digging myself a hole because I felt too intimidated to get my thoughts across. The main problem was that the ticket prices were too much and I couldn’t afford it during these times as I was unemployed. I know what I did was wrong and I’m at fault. Are there any mitigating factors that could help me? Also since the officer mistakenly said it was civil, do you think I could use that in some way?
Thank you for your advice, I’ll do everything I can so this doesn’t turn into a criminal case.
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I was wondering if I get the letter, would it be possible to pay in instalments so that it doesn’t have to turn into a court case?
No problem at all, thank you for answering the question and providing me the info. I’ll answer them here:
So, they issued me a penalty fare and asked if I could pay it now. I said I don’t have any time because I was getting late to work but I will. They let me through after that but I didn’t receive any details or the penalty fare ticket. I believe they should’ve given me this or a reference number so I could pay it asap but I was given no information. But no they didn’t physically give me the penalty fare paper with any details so I could atleast pay it later.
Yes they did take my details down, including my address, name and DOB. I recall they said that they’d send me information in the post and it would take a month. I want all the information so I can pay everything off.
My main worry is this ticket inspector said it’ll be a case of fraud because I was using my out of date railcard to buy tickets. I’m incredibly frightened that this will go on my criminal record. He said it’s a civic case, not criminal.
Thank you very much for your help and advice!
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Yes they did. They were recording I believe and took down my name, address and DOB details.
If it had been a Penalty Fare getting it sent later would be not good since if they are paid promptly they are reduced by £50.
But like others I do not think you have been issued with a penalty fare.
What you need to do now is watch out for post or e mail including spam until you hear from a railway company and then head back here to get advice on how you respond to that in the hope you can negotiate an out of court settlement.
It is vital you get the letter and reply to that to avoid risk of being prosecuted.
People here will help you with the advice you need and tell you what to expect as things progress.
If it had been a Penalty Fare getting it sent later would be not good since if they are paid promptly they are reduced by £50.
But like others I do not think you have been issued with a penalty fare.
What you need to do now is watch out for post or e mail including spam until you hear from a railway company and then head back here to get advice on how you respond to that in the hope you can negotiate an out of court settlement.
It is vital you get the letter and reply to that to avoid risk of being prosecuted.
People here will help you with the advice you need and tell you what to expect as things progress.
Thank you very much, I really appreciate the advice you’ve all provided me thus far. I will definitely keep an eye out and reply to the letter and keep you all updated. Thank you again
Thank you very much, I really appreciate the advice you’ve all provided me thus far. I will definitely keep an eye out and reply to the letter and keep you all updated. Thank you again
When you hear from them I would strongly advise you to get some advice from here about how to reply before you respond, and also people can check your response before you send it to help you get it as good as it can be.
In the meantime you could look at few other threads to get an idea of the process and how it tends to work out.
One of the other things you need to be aware of is that they will check any on line trains ticket purchases you make to look for other occasions when you have bought tickets with a railcard you do not have or has expired and they are likely to seek to get you to pay for those occasions. This is a reason whey they tend not to issue Penalty Fares for issues involving Railcards - because they know that people who evade fares with Railcard discount claims they are not entitled to have probably done it before and they want to check / trace that.
If you are entitled to a Railcard I would suggest buying one now, as that is something you can say you have done to legitimately reduce the cost of your tickets (but be sure to check when you can actually use the railcard for the travel you do) or if it is regular travel consider buying a season ticket.
A Penalty Fare has to be given to you at the time, clearly this didn't happen so you weren't given one. What has happened it West Midalnds Trains have got your details and will now conduct further investigation about your ticket purchasing history. Based on what you have said this will show that you have evaded your fare on several occasions in the past.
The good news is WMT will normally agree to an out of court settlement if you co-operate with their investigation and haven't conr to their attention before. They will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. When the letter comes post a copy of it in this thread (with any personal details and case reference nunbers redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members can proof read it for you.
If you are offered a settleent expect to have to pay the cost of the fares evaded at the full anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase. You will also have to pay an admin fee, typically around £175. Despite what you have been told, you will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't normally allowed.
If you are entitled to a Railcard I would suggest buying one now, as that is something you can say you have done to legitimately reduce the cost of your tickets (but be sure to check when you can actually use the railcard for the travel you do) or if it is regular travel consider buying a season ticket.
When you hear from them I would strongly advise you to get some advice from here about how to reply before you respond, and also people can check your response before you send it to help you get it as good as it can be.
In the meantime you could look at few other threads to get an idea of the process and how it tends to work out.
One of the other things you need to be aware of is that they will check any on line trains ticket purchases you make to look for other occasions when you have bought tickets with a railcard you do not have or has expired and they are likely to seek to get you to pay for those occasions. This is a reason whey they tend not to issue Penalty Fares for issues involving Railcards - because they know that people who evade fares with Railcard discount claims they are not entitled to have probably done it before and they want to check / trace that.
If you are entitled to a Railcard I would suggest buying one now, as that is something you can say you have done to legitimately reduce the cost of your tickets (but be sure to check when you can actually use the railcard for the travel you do) or if it is regular travel consider buying a season ticket.
I absolutely will take advice from here about how to properly respond when I get the letter.
I’ve also looked at other threads with similar problems on here so I get some ideas on what to do.
Thankfully, I’ve renewed my railcard- now that I’ve started a job it’s essential for me to travel using a railcard and will always continue to do so truthfully to show I’ve no intention of doing this again. I will update this post once the letter comes through.
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A Penalty Fare has to be given to you at the time, clearly this didn't happen so you weren't given one. What has happened it West Midalnds Trains have got your details and will now conduct further investigation about your ticket purchasing history. Based on what you have said this will show that you have evaded your fare on several occasions in the past.
The good news is WMT will normally agree to an out of court settlement if you co-operate with their investigation and haven't conr to their attention before. They will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. When the letter comes post a copy of it in this thread (with any personal details and case reference nunbers redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members can proof read it for you.
If you are offered a settleent expect to have to pay the cost of the fares evaded at the full anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase. You will also have to pay an admin fee, typically around £175. Despite what you have been told, you will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't normally allowed.
That’s slightly more reassuring. I will own up to what I’ve done and am fully prepared to pay for the settlement in full plus administrative fees. I will of course post a copy of the letter in this thread as well. It’s come to a point where I can’t eat or sleep because of the fear of court. I’ll own up and ensure it won’t happen again.
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I absolutely will take advice from here about how to properly respond when I get the letter.
I’ve also looked at other threads with similar problems on here so I get some ideas on what to do.
Thankfully, I’ve renewed my railcard- now that I’ve started a job it’s essential for me to travel using a railcard and will always continue to do so truthfully to show I’ve no intention of doing this again. I will update this post once the letter comes through.
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That’s slightly more reassuring. I will own up to what I’ve done and am fully prepared to pay for the settlement in full plus administrative fees. I will of course post a copy of the letter in this thread as well. It’s come to a point where I can’t eat or sleep because of the fear of court. I’ll own up and ensure it won’t happen again.
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Thank you! I bought the railcard yesterday and now have the expiry date reminder on my calendar.
I guess you know some railcards are subject to restrictions in use or minimum fares in weekdays morning peaks if that creates a problem for getting to work. Worth checking if you need to be sure.
I guess you know some railcards are subject to restrictions in use or minimum fares in weekdays morning peaks if that creates a problem for getting to work. Worth checking if you need to be sure.
Hello everyone, I have yet to receive the letter but I wanted to ask, do you think I could email the West Midlands train team about the situation, my willingness to pay the fees so they can forward it onto the fraud team?
Hello everyone, I have yet to receive the letter but I wanted to ask, do you think I could email the West Midlands train team about the situation, my willingness to pay the fees so they can forward it onto the fraud team?
Hello everyone,
I just received my letter. This has made me very worried and I want to cooperate with them to get this matter solved and pay the fine. How would you recommend writing the letter to them?
The generic advice @Hadders has given on a number of occasions is copied below.
I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train operating companies administrative costs in dealing with the matter
It might be worth looking at some letters in other threads to see how they should be set out. If you post a draft copy of your reply in thisthread forum members will proof read it for you.
Do not use AI to write the letter as it can come across as being insincere.
I am writing to offer my sincere apologies for not being able to produce a valid ticket during my recent journey. I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway.
I wish to assure you that I have learned from this experience and I am committed to ensuring that it does not happen again in the future. In light of this incident, I have purchased a railcard in order to legitimately reduce my fare costs and to ensure that I am always able to produce a valid ticket when traveling on your trains.
I am keen to settle this matter amicably and without the need for court action. I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare and any other administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.
Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter as quickly and smoothly as possible.
Thank you for your understanding.
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I am writing to offer my sincere apologies for not being able to produce a valid ticket during my recent journey. I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway.
I wish to assure you that I have learned from this experience and I am committed to ensuring that it does not happen again in the future. In light of this incident, I have purchased a railcard in order to legitimately reduce my fare costs and to ensure that I am always able to produce a valid ticket when traveling on your trains.
I am keen to settle this matter amicably and without the need for court action. I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare and any other administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.
Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter as quickly and smoothly as possible.
The generic advice @Hadders has given on a number of occasions is copied below.
I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train operating companies administrative costs in dealing with the matter
It might be worth looking at some letters in other threads to see how they should be set out. If you post a draft copy of your reply in thisthread forum members will proof read it for you.
Do not use AI to write the letter as it can come across as being insincere.
I am keen to settle this matter amicably and without the need for court action. I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare and any other administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.
I am deeply sorry for anyinconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway.
You have caused a loss of income (which in the end means that other passengers and the taxpayer are paying for you), not inconvenience or frustration, and were breaking the law.
I am keen to settle this matter amicably and without the need for court action. I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare and any other administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.
You have caused a loss of income (which in the end means that other passengers and the taxpayer are paying for you), not inconvenience or frustration, and were breaking the law.
You are in no position to make an offer. As Haywain has just said, you need to ask them to consider offering you a settlement.
Anyway, good luck! WMT will usually play ball if you are seen to engage with them.
The OP first asked about a ticketing fine on 16th August, the letter says they were questioned on the 28th August. Is this the same occasion and have WMT just got the date wrong?
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
