Bee Network rebranding for National Rail services

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s my understanding that

• Stalybridge – Southport
• Glossop/Hadfield – Manchester Piccadilly
• Rose Hill Marple – Manchester Piccadilly
• Buxton – Manchester Piccadilly
• Alderley Edge – Manchester Piccadilly
• Rochdale stopping services
• Manchester Airport stopping services

may become part of the Bee Network by 2028.

I was just wondering what this would mean in terms of branding? Obviously, the routes are operated by Northern, but the Sprinters and 323s used on these routes are also used on Northern's other routes, such as Blackpool/Liverpool services, Clitheroe and Blackburn services, and Colne/Ormskirk/Preston services, so I'd be surprised to see them painted yellow. But at the same time, not having them adhere to the Bee Network branding as the buses, trams and even the cycle hire bikes do, sort of invalidates the whole point?

Mind you, Northern may not even exist by 2028. I suppose we could have a designated Bee Network fleet split off from that of "Great British Railways," or whoever Starmer conjures up to replace the private operators.

I'd also like to know if the Metrolink logos on the trams and tram stops will soon be ditched and replaced with Bee Network... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63006058 This BBC article from all the way back in 2022 has an interesting picture of a Bee Network branded tram, and I must admit it'd looks much neater/more integrated alongside the buses like that than the similar but not identically branded trams do now.

 

[bengley]

I'd imagine it'll work in the same way Merseyrail's City line will.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd imagine it'll work in the same way Merseyrail's City line will.

Most articles on the announcement discuss clearly branded stations and trains.

 

[bengley]

I suspect they don't even know how it's going to work themselves yet!

 

[norbitonflyer]

When Passeneger Transport Executives were a thing, some of the units used on their services were branded with the PTEs logos or sometimes livery. This woud probably be in proportion to the proportion of the fleet used on those services, and there was no expectation that the PTE services would be operated exclusievly by branded units, or that the branded units would be used exclusively on such services.
Here is a South Yorkshire branded dmu at its home depot of Lincoln, about 50 miles from South Yorkshire

 

[TheSmiths82]

I am guessing the trains might be ringed fenced, for certain routes but it might just mean a none branded Bee train might have to be used if there are shortages. It would be odd seeing a Bee train in Southport, it might get a bit confusing with all that yellow

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am guessing the trains might be ringed fenced, for certain routes but it might just mean a none branded Bee train might have to be used if there are shortages. It would be odd seeing a Bee train in Southport, it might get a bit confusing with all that yellow

PTE liveried units ended up all over the place in Regional Railways days.

 

[occone]

I'd also like to know if the Metrolink logos on the trams and tram stops will soon be ditched and replaced with Bee Network

The Bee Network tram is still about - but it is more promotional with "Say Yellow" wording on the side. Looks very smart - I'd expect a move to this livery over time.

 

[Lewisham2221]

PTE liveried units ended up all over the place in Regional Railways days.

Even in the mid-00s it wasn't uncommon to see PTE liveried units "off route". Centro liveried 150s and Meresyrail (or were they Meresytravel?) 142s are two that immediately spring to mind.

 

[childwallblues]

I'd imagine it'll work in the same way Merseyrail's City line will.

The Merseyrail City Line does not use branded units. InDecember the all stations service from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport should be worked by 4 x 331/1 and I cannot see any 331s that enter Greater Manchester being Bee Line branded.
The service from Headbolt Lane to Blackburn starts in Merseyside then runs through Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and Lancashire to reach its desination.
I would not think West Yorkshire and Lancashire would be too pleased with the Bee Line livery in their areas. Yellow units would not be out of place at Headbolt Lane where the yellow 777s dominate.

 

[py_megapixel]

It's already happening (very gradually!) on Metrolink, with Bee Network stickers being added to some signage over the old diamond-shaped logo. I imagine this will spread as time goes on. The Metrolink name is also gradually disappearing from TfGM's website, being replaced with the generic term "tram".

The older Metrolink vehicles could do with some works now anyway - the paintwork and seat fabrics are very worn. So it's a logical time to start a scheme to refresh them, if funding can be found for it.

 

[YorksLad12]

Slightly off-topic, but this article from The Beauty of Transport is worth a read if you haven't seen it. West Yorkshire did it best ... until they didn't.

MetroTrain-liveried units often found themselves away from West Yorkshire, either because of the routes they were on or because of unit rotations. If you think about it, they're mobile adverts so not really an issue.

I would not think West Yorkshire and Lancashire would be too pleased with the Bee Line livery in their areas. Yellow units would not be out of place at Headbolt Lane where the yellow 777s dominate.

It will happen with buses; inevitably, Bee Network-liveried vehicles will end up running the service into Huddersfield, and WY-liveried buses (when they arrive) will run into South Yorkshire, North Yorkshire and possibly GM too.

 

[fishwomp]

MetroTrain-liveried units often found themselves away from West Yorkshire, either because of the routes they were on or because of unit rotations. If you think about it, they're mobile adverts so not really an issue.

The West Yorkshire Metro was unique in that it actually bought units, in particular the centre car versions of the 144s (possibly others), about 6x 155s, and I think a small number of 158s - all of which got the livery. Then they all got sold on during privatization. Wikipedia says they kept ownership of 158s and 321s after everything else had been sold to porterbrook see

West Yorkshire Metro - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[py_megapixel]

It will happen with buses; inevitably, Bee Network-liveried vehicles will end up running the service into Huddersfield, and WY-liveried buses (when they arrive) will run into South Yorkshire, North Yorkshire and possibly GM too.

Bee Network vehicles are actually already serving Huddersfield, and I believe Warrington, and Warrington buses run into GM as well. TfGM's conditions mean that Warrington buses have to use the TfGM fare system for journeys within GM, so as long as the other PTEs all introduce something similar, it shouldn't have too much of an effect on passengers.

And for what it's worth, there's currently a fleet of buses running local services entirely within Sheffield, South Yorkshire, carrying giant adverts for West Yorkshire PTE tickets, because FirstGroup decided to move them here from Leeds.

 

[43096]

The West Yorkshire Metro was unique in that it actually bought units, in particular the centre car versions of the 144s (possibly others), about 6x 155s, and I think a small number of 158s - all of which got the livery. Then they all got sold on during privatization. Wikipedia says they kept ownership of 158s and 321s after everything else had been sold to porterbrook see

West Yorkshire Metro - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

West Yorkshire PTE bough the 10 centre cars for the 144s (but not the driving cars), seven Class 155s (341-347) and ten Class 158s (901-910). All were later sold post-privatisation to Porterbrook (144s and 155s) and Eversholt (158s).

 

[slipdigby]

At the start of the year, Andy Burnham announced that

• Wigan Wallgate – Manchester Victoria
• Stalybridge – Southport
• Glossop/Hadfield – Manchester Piccadilly
• Rose Hill Marple – Manchester Piccadilly
• Buxton – Manchester Piccadilly
• Alderley Edge – Manchester Piccadilly
• Rochdale stopping services
• Manchester Airport stopping services

would become part of the Bee Network by 2028. And as commuter rail, as now, not trams, so it doesn't mean a Metrolink conversion, before someone jumps in saying he means that.

I was just wondering what this would mean in terms of branding? Obviously, the routes are operated by Northern, but the Sprinters and 323s used on these routes are also used on Northern's other routes, such as Blackpool/Liverpool services, Clitheroe and Blackburn services, and Colne/Ormskirk/Preston services, so I'd be surprised to see them painted yellow. But at the same time, not having them adhere to the Bee Network branding as the buses, trams and even the cycle hire bikes do, sort of invalidates the whole point?

Mind you, Northern may not even exist by 2028. I suppose we could have a designated Bee Network fleet split off from that of "Great British Railways," or whoever Starmer conjures up to replace the private operators.

I'd also like to know if the Metrolink logos on the trams and tram stops will soon be ditched and replaced with Bee Network... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63006058 This BBC article from all the way back in 2022 has an interesting picture of a Bee Network branded tram, and I must admit it'd looks much neater/more integrated alongside the buses like that than the similar but not identically branded trams do now.

Bee Network branding will be focused on the stations within GM. There are discussions over some form of sub branding on the Northern fleet such as "in partnership with Bee Network, WYCA, TfLCR", etc., however we won't see a mass re-liverying of trains prior to 2028 (and resultant yellow trains turning up in Windermere or Nottingham.....).

Best,
Slip

 

[bluelagoon8951]

Most articles on the announcement discuss clearly branded stations and trains.

not to mention that city line doesn't have things like tap in and tap out along with other things planned for bee network trains!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

not to mention that city line doesn't have things like tap in and tap out along with other things planned for bee network trains!

Yes, City Line isn’t part of a wider unified integrated transport brand, it just so happens that Merseyrail own the stations and lines on which the Northern services operate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, City Line isn’t part of a wider unified integrated transport brand

Yes, it is.

it just so happens that Merseyrail own the stations and lines on which the Northern services operate.

No, they don't.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes, it is.



No, they don't.

Alright then, fair enough. But I definitely don’t see the same level of
effort and branding to present Merseyside rail and bus services as one unified, integrated brand as I do with the Bee Network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Alright then, fair enough. But I definitely don’t see the same level of
effort and branding to present Merseyside rail and bus services as one unified, integrated brand as I do with the Bee Network.

I don't really see any difference at this stage. The brand Merseytravel (soon to be Metro) has covered the whole network on Merseyside - bus, train and ferry - since the 1970s, including a set of integrated tickets that are far more mature than those in Greater Manchester.

 

[davyp]

I don't really see any difference at this stage. The brand Merseytravel (soon to be Metro) has covered the whole network on Merseyside - bus, train and ferry - since the 1970s, including a set of integrated tickets that are far more mature than those in Greater Manchester.

The buses in the 50s and 60s give us a clue ...
Each town had their own council run buses all in different liveries running to the other towns. The centre of Manchester was a colourful place in terms of transport.
Equally an hour or two at Piccadilly/Stockport/Wigan/Bolton etc. stations will provide a variety of liveries.
No problem.

 

[Geeves]

I'd imagine that there would have to be a serious alteration to the timetable as of course in "the powers that be' ultimate wisdom the local trains in Manchester run (in some cases) as far as Hull, Sheffield, Liverpool and Leeds to name a few! I'm not sure how you would "ring fence" anything currently

 

[The exile]

When Passeneger Transport Executives were a thing, some of the units used on their services were branded with the PTEs logos or sometimes livery. This woud probably be in proportion to the proportion of the fleet used on those services, and there was no expectation that the PTE services would be operated exclusievly by branded units, or that the branded units would be used exclusively on such services.
Here is a South Yorkshire branded dmu at its home depot of Lincoln, about 50 miles from South Yorkshire

There certainly was an expectation on the part of some councillors (however unrealistic) that PTE-liveried units would remain in PTE-sponsored services.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Bee Network branding has come to Manchester Oxford Rd.

 

[Chriso]

I really like that. Hopefully will see a rollout throughout GM soon. The purple signage is looking very forlorn

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I really like that. Hopefully will see a rollout throughout GM soon. The purple signage is looking very forlorn

I do as well, more than I care to publicly admit.

 

[Russel]

That looks better than I was expecting.

 

[Meerkat]

Bee Network branding has come to Manchester Oxford Rd.

It doesnt exactly shout Bee Network! Unnecessarily small lettering and a logo too small to be discernible from a distance.

 

[Russel]

It doesnt exactly shout Bee Network! Unnecessarily small lettering and a logo too small to be discernible from a distance.

I think it looks about right, how many people even look at the operator branding on nameboards anyway?