TfW withdrawals (Now just 150/158s to go)

[Scotrail84]

All these units going off lease or for scrap. ScotRail are crying out for additional units just now especially with Leven going half hourly in the near future, shame none of these could have been utilised by them.

 

[Northerngirl]

From what's been said here, the work needed to get them ship shape wouldn't be much less than building a new one, so I think it will be a couple of years of pain while the sprinters are replaced

 

[Scotrail84]

From what's been said here, the work needed to get them ship shape wouldn't be much less than building a new one, so I think it will be a couple of years of pain while the sprinters are replaced

Where did the 170s go? ScotRail already have a fleet of turbos, they could have added to the fleet if these are going spare?

 

[43096]

Where did the 170s go? ScotRail already have a fleet of turbos, they could have added to the fleet if these are going spare?

East Midlands Railway.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Where did the 170s go? ScotRail already have a fleet of turbos, they could have added to the fleet if these are going spare?

The TfW 170s went to EMR

 

[Scotrail84]

The TfW 170s went to EMR

Ah ok, that will be that then.

 

[Wyrleybart]

All these units going off lease or for scrap. ScotRail are crying out for additional units just now especially with Leven going half hourly in the near future, shame none of these could have been utilised by them.

Scotrail should not take on anymore diesel trains if they want to retain credibility. There are fleets of EMUs stored and about to be stored. Scotland should be demonstrating battery electric propulsion on some trains, even if south of Hadrians wall the Sassenachs are struggling with the concept.

Let's not forget the BEMU which ran from Aberdeen to Ballater. Time for the new line to Tweedbank to have battery chargers installed. Presumably once the B#MUs have got to Tweedbank the return downhill journey puts regen energy back in the batteries

 

[Robin Edwards]

I may have this wrong but on passing Longsight on Monday, there was what I thought to be a single coach from a Class 175 parked with 08 shunter? Am I mistaken and if not, any ideas on the number please?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I may have this wrong but on passing Longsight on Monday, there was what I thought to be a single coach from a Class 175 parked with 08 shunter? Am I mistaken and if not, any ideas on the number please?

175111 left Longsight a few weeks ago, so there is no more left there. There have been reports of a 720 there though, so you probably saw that? 720534.

 

[BillStampy]

Reports of 150281 being taken to Newport Sims via truck, no photo evidence but I didn't see it at Landore yesterday.

Edit: nevermind I do have a screenshot

 

[paddyb6]

Interesting move penned in for tomorrow, presume this will be a 175 drag - but happy to be corrected. Crewe to Landore.

Realtime Trains | 7W78 1144 Crewe South Yard to Landore T.M.D. | 15/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 7W78 1144 departure from Crewe South Yard to Landore T.M.D. on 15/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Robin Edwards]

175111 left Longsight a few weeks ago, so there is no more left there. There have been reports of a 720 there though, so you probably saw that? 720534.

Thanks for confirming SuperLuke2334 - livery clash TfW vs GA

 

[BillStampy]

Interesting move penned in for tomorrow, presume this will be a 175 drag - but happy to be corrected. Crewe to Landore.

Realtime Trains | 7W78 1144 Crewe South Yard to Landore T.M.D. | 15/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 7W78 1144 departure from Crewe South Yard to Landore T.M.D. on 15/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Class 37 top and tail drag, last one was 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm finding it totally insane we are scrapping diesel units when TfW themselves are still short of units until all the new stock comes into use, and other ToCs are crying out for extra diesel units too. I appreciate the money argument and would agree, except for the fact those new units that aren't much more expensive aren't being ordered and won't be for years! (thinking of GWR at the moment).

 

[deepthought]

I'm finding it totally insane we are scrapping diesel units when TfW themselves are still short of units until all the new stock comes into use, and other ToCs are crying out for extra diesel units too. I appreciate the money argument and would agree, except for the fact those new units that aren't much more expensive aren't being ordered and won't be for years! (thinking of GWR at the moment).

I have to agree, trains being cancelled daily due to traction shortages and they are sending trains to the scrapyard. Absolute madness.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm finding it totally insane we are scrapping diesel units when TfW themselves are still short of units until all the new stock comes into use, and other ToCs are crying out for extra diesel units too. I appreciate the money argument and would agree, except for the fact those new units that aren't much more expensive aren't being ordered and won't be for years! (thinking of GWR at the moment).

ScotRail are woefully shorts of diesels as well. Short forming all over the place due to lack of units.

 

[Caaardiff]

I'm finding it totally insane we are scrapping diesel units when TfW themselves are still short of units until all the new stock comes into use, and other ToCs are crying out for extra diesel units too. I appreciate the money argument and would agree, except for the fact those new units that aren't much more expensive aren't being ordered and won't be for years! (thinking of GWR at the moment).

The TFW 150's going for scrap are life expired. The cost of the exam work required for the sake of a few extended years really isn't worth it.
There also isn't the Depot space to keep them all going alongside all the other new fleets. The 150's should have been gone soon anyway with the introduction of the 398's had that introduction been on time.

 

[simonmpoulton]

If there was a real genuine will to improve the lack of DMU's situation then the money would be found to do the exam work and keep them going for another few years.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I'm finding it totally insane we are scrapping diesel units when TfW themselves are still short of units until all the new stock comes into use, and other ToCs are crying out for extra diesel units too. I appreciate the money argument and would agree, except for the fact those new units that aren't much more expensive aren't being ordered and won't be for years! (thinking of GWR at the moment).

I get what you’re saying, but forgetting about money for now, the work required on the 150’s is a very time consuming job, so they would all have to come out of service to have the work done so this wouldn’t really help TFW with unit shortages now and the 756’s and 398’s are not that far away now.

Obviously the plan was for the introduction of 756’s and 398’s to be much further along than now so there was never a need to start a rolling program years ago.
And the reason one wasn’t started years ago so that they could go to other operators comes down to cost.

If years ago there was a will for other TOC’s to spend money to get more DMU’s then that money would have been much better spent on brand new rolling stock which would have been coming into service by the time (if not before with the TFW project delays) of the 40 year old 150’s.

It only seems insane that we can look both with hindsight and the knowledge of what the state of play is now.

The correct place for the 150’s is the scrap heap.
As for GWR, they’re getting 27 very lovely early 2000’s DMU’s that will suit them a lot better than a bunch of rusty 150’s.

If there was a real genuine will to improve the lack of DMU's situation then the money would be found to do the exam work and keep them going for another few years.

Or if there was a real Will to improve then brand new ones would have been ordered.

 

[bramling]

I get what you’re saying, but forgetting about money for now, the work required on the 150’s is a very time consuming job, so they would all have to come out of service to have the work done so this wouldn’t really help TFW with unit shortages now and the 756’s and 398’s are not that far away now.

Obviously the plan was for the introduction of 756’s and 398’s to be much further along than now so there was never a need to start a rolling program years ago.
And the reason one wasn’t started years ago so that they could go to other operators comes down to cost.

If years ago there was a will for other TOC’s to spend money to get more DMU’s then that money would have been much better spent on brand new rolling stock which would have been coming into service by the time (if not before with the TFW project delays) of the 40 year old 150’s.

It only seems insane that we can look both with hindsight and the knowledge of what the state of play is now.

The correct place for the 150’s is the scrap heap.
As for GWR, they’re getting 27 very lovely early 2000’s DMU’s that will suit them a lot better than a bunch of rusty 150’s.

Whilst I generally agree with the notion that the TFW 150s are probably not worth expenditure to keep them running, they are a 1/3 2/3 door DMU, which does give them a level of suitability to certain services, which end-door units lack. The 175s seem a decent fit for the services they’re rumoured to be taking over, but they wouldn’t be so suitable for something like Exmouth-Paignton.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Whilst I generally agree with the notion that the TFW 150s are probably not worth expenditure to keep them running, they are a 1/3 2/3 door DMU, which does give them a level of suitability to certain services, which end-door units lack. The 175s seem a decent fit for the services they’re rumoured to be taking over, but they wouldn’t be so suitable for something like Exmouth-Paignton.

Yes but one of the complainants about new DMU stock is the lack of end door stock as all the CAF DMU’s are 1/3 2/3 doors. They’re also considerably nicer than 150’s and have considerably better performance.

I’ve only done a return trip Exmouth - Paignton once, 150 outbound, 158 return. I didn’t notice much difference despite quite a sizeable loading on each trip. The 158 was much nicer to travel on as it had working AC. The 150 was so hot and horrible it put us off using the train for the rest of the week we had in Devon when we had a lovely air conditioned car we could use. I wonder how many others get put off for the same reason.

 

[Topological]

I get what you’re saying, but forgetting about money for now, the work required on the 150’s is a very time consuming job, so they would all have to come out of service to have the work done so this wouldn’t really help TFW with unit shortages now and the 756’s and 398’s are not that far away now.

Obviously the plan was for the introduction of 756’s and 398’s to be much further along than now so there was never a need to start a rolling program years ago.
And the reason one wasn’t started years ago so that they could go to other operators comes down to cost.

If years ago there was a will for other TOC’s to spend money to get more DMU’s then that money would have been much better spent on brand new rolling stock which would have been coming into service by the time (if not before with the TFW project delays) of the 40 year old 150’s.

It only seems insane that we can look both with hindsight and the knowledge of what the state of play is now.

The correct place for the 150’s is the scrap heap.
As for GWR, they’re getting 27 very lovely early 2000’s DMU’s that will suit them a lot better than a bunch of rusty 150’s.

Or if there was a real Will to improve then brand new ones would have been ordered.

Completely agree.

IF there was money available then more 197s would be a better use, and would offer a better return over the life of the asset.

 

[Caaardiff]

Completely agree.

IF there was money available then more 197s would be a better use, and would offer a better return over the life of the asset.

More 197's aren't needed.
Getting the 756's and 398's in service, and 231's cascaded off the Valleys is what is needed so 197's can be put on the routes they were designated for.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

More 197's aren't needed.
Getting the 756's and 398's in service, and 231's cascaded off the Valleys is what is needed so 197's can be put on the routes they were designated for.

I don't know about Ebbw Vale but there has been a marked increase in 15x on Cheltenhams the past couple of days

 

[BillStampy]

I don't know about Ebbw Vale but there has been a marked increase in 15x on Cheltenhams the past couple of days

One is booked 15X from early Canton at the moment, forming first Maesteg and Cheltenham. Vale is still mostly 197s minus Newport. The new December timetable change has Maesteg - Ebbw Vale though, so we'll see what happens then when that rolls around

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

One is booked 15X from early Canton at the moment, forming first Maesteg and Cheltenham. Vale is still mostly 197s minus Newport. The new December timetable change has Maesteg - Ebbw Vale though, so we'll see what happens then when that rolls around

Even Newport Ebbw sees a regular allocation of 197s, including today.

 

[jayah]

If there was a real genuine will to improve the lack of DMU's situation then the money would be found to do the exam work and keep them going for another few years.

Exactly, there isn't the will.

The operators want to save money, and the leasing companies want to wean them off thr value range.

Life expired is transparently an excuse not a reason. 150s will be running in other companies for years to come.

If they want to buy new DMUs, then a new or extended depot will still be needed, as happened on Northern.

 

[Caaardiff]

I don't know about Ebbw Vale but there has been a marked increase in 15x on Cheltenhams the past couple of days

Mainly because the fleet situation appears to be in a mess again.

Ebbw Vales & Maesteg - Cheltenham should all be 231's by now, with the exception of Newport-Ebbw Vale I believe. There's been a varying number of 197's planned to these services over recent months, anywhere between 5-8 I'd say. All of which should be on the marches.

 

[Jez]

One is booked 15X from early Canton at the moment, forming first Maesteg and Cheltenham. Vale is still mostly 197s minus Newport. The new December timetable change has Maesteg - Ebbw Vale though, so we'll see what happens then when that rolls around

I would hope 231's would be on the Ebbw Vale and Maestegs by then.

Its better they use Sprinters on the likes of Maesteg-Cheltenham rather than West Wales/Cardiff/Manchester if they are short of 197s.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Mainly because the fleet situation appears to be in a mess again.

Ebbw Vales & Maesteg - Cheltenham should all be 231's by now, with the exception of Newport-Ebbw Vale I believe. There's been a varying number of 197's planned to these services over recent months, anywhere between 5-8 I'd say. All of which should be on the marches.

I get they should be but if it's freeing 197s for the Marches I can't complain as a user of the Cheltenhams.

The issue is the electrification delays, I for one won't blame the rolling stock for not having the infrastructure