Thameslink Prosecution

[tpt1212]

Hi all, been reading a lot of threads on here today since being told by the ticket inspector I will be receiving a letter in the post (prosecution letter). Just seeking advice given my circumstances.

My return ticket expired yesterday, which was an honest mistake, I genuinely thought it expired today. However I’m riddled with guilt and am a nervous wreck. I freelance for a living and often travel to London, sometimes by train sometimes by car. Hence using an open return.

I know they look through your Trainline purchases but I don’t always use Trainline - I sometimes buy physical tickets from the machine.

I received two penalty notices last year, would this further incriminate me?

I know it’s unwise to make excuses but this week my wife underwent cancer diagnosis and had a miscarriage so my head is pretty all over the place.

Very much expecting to receive a letter threatening court action. Is this one likely to end in court? Please advise me if there are any tips.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We need to know which train company you're dealing with. Ordinarily most train companies are prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate and who haven't come to their attention before.

My return ticket expired yesterday, which was an honest mistake, I genuinely thought it expired today. However I’m riddled with guilt and am a nervous wreck. I freelance for a living and often travel to London, sometimes by train sometimes by car. Hence using an open return.

How regularly do you travel to London? The return portion of an Off Peak Return and an Anytime Return is valid for a month. Were there barriers at your starting station, if so how did you get through them with an out of date ticket? If there's a barcode on the ticket has it been scanned at any point int he past?

I know they look through your Trainline purchases but I don’t always use Trainline - I sometimes buy physical tickets from the machine.

The train company is likely to research your online ticket purchasing history and is likely to ask questions about any irregularities. Tickets purchased from ticket machines are harder to trace the history.

I received two penalty notices last year, would this further incriminate me?

That's not good as it indicates a history of not complying with ticketing rules. It'll make it harder to obtain a settlement but probably not impossible.

I know it’s unwise to make excuses but this week my wife underwent cancer diagnosis and had a miscarriage so my head is pretty all over the place.

I am very sorry to hear about this.

Very much expecting to receive a letter threatening court action. Is this one likely to end in court? Please advise me if there are any tips.

When it arrives, post a copy of the letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will roof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading the letter.

 

[tpt1212]

Thank you very much for your reply.

How regularly do you travel to London? The return portion of an Off Peak Return and an Anytime Return is valid for a month. Were there barriers at your starting station, if so how did you get through them with an out of date ticket? If there's a barcode on the ticket has it been scanned at any point int he past?

On average I probably travel on the train once or twice a week. There were no barriers at my starting station and my ticket had not been scanned before.

That's not good as it indicates a history of not complying with ticketing rules. It'll make it harder to obtain a settlement but probably not impossible.

Since receiving these last year, I have been super vigilant with ensuring I always have a valid ticket. This time was an honest mistake, undoubtedly brought about by the personal circumstances explained.

I’m tearing my hair out as I teach and also run a children’s charity so a criminal record would be absolutely detrimental to my life.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

At the risk of worrying about a problem that isn't there, these lines concern me:

My return ticket expired yesterday, which was an honest mistake, I genuinely thought it expired today.

On average I probably travel on the train once or twice a week. There were no barriers at my starting station and my ticket had not been scanned before.

Can I just check - how many journeys do you make on your return ticket? The thing is, they're only valid for one trip out and one trip back, so if you have been doing more than this then the railway won't be very happy.

 

[tpt1212]

Can I just check - how many journeys do you make on your return ticket? The thing is, they're only valid for one trip out and one trip back, so if you have been doing more than this then the railway won't be very happy.

I only travel once on the ticket. I travel to different destinations for work. When I work in London I usually drive. I just buy an open return for London travel because I travel there more often.

There’s nothing strange in my ticket purchase history from what I can see. Also, I prefer to buy paper tickets so I don’t really use Trainline that much.

Would it be wise to line up a solicitor to fight on my behalf?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I only travel once on the ticket.

It sounds as if I'm worrying about nothing then - that's good news.

Would it be wise to line up a solicitor to fight on my behalf?

This is probably unnecessary. As you may well have seen from looking through cases, Thameslink (who are part of GTR) are generally willing to settle out of court for the fare that should have been paid plus their admin costs. They will want a reasonable degree of certainty that this is behaviour that won't be repeated: your two previous penalty notices won't help here but as @Hadders says above it probably won't make things impossible.

For the moment, there's nothing that you must do, but I think it would be sensible to
- make a note of exactly what happened in your interaction with the railway staff - the sooner you record this the better your memory will be and while there doesn't seem to be any conflict over this point, you never know when you'll need it
- put aside the train fare that you really should have paid, plus maybe £150 for GTR's admin costs
- then wait to hear from the railway: once you know exactly what you're facing, you'll be in a better position to reply to them.

 

[Hadders]

This is probably sortable with GTR but exactly what you say in your reply to their letter will be key. You'll need to write a short, concise letter explaning very simply what you've done. Post a copy of GTR's letter and your draft reply in this thread, when the time comes, and we can proof read it for you.

Should you not get a favourable outcome to your reply to GTR's letter then that is the point when I would look to use a solicitor.

 

[tpt1212]

Thank you for your advice. In all honesty I haven’t properly slept since Thursday and have had a mental breakdown. I know I’m catastrophising the situation but what would be the worst case scenario? Could I be tried in a crown court for fraud or is a bylaw conviction more realistic? Obviously when then inevitable letter arrives I will express my regret, apologise, and try to convey how life changing this has been. I am fully willing to engage and pay any settlement they may offer. However, as I have had two penalty fares in the past two years, I am preparing myself for the worst case scenario.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2024 ==

- make a note of exactly what happened in your interaction with the railway staff - the sooner you record this the better your memory will be and while there doesn't seem to be any conflict over this point, you never know when you'll need it

My interaction with the railway staff was very respectful and polite. The officer told me he even made a note on my case that I was courteous and polite.

 

[Hadders]

Forget crown court, you won't be going there. The worst situation is a prosecution under the Railway Byelaws or the Regulation of the Railways Act for what in the scheme of things is a minor railway ticketing matter.

As I said earlier, it's probably sortable out of court. There's nothing you can do about it for now so try and put the matter to the back of you mind and get on with your life. When the letter does come, pop back here and we'll be happy to assist with next steps.

 

[tpt1212]

Thank you @Hadders, I’ve read every single thread on here and you seem to be a lifeline to many so thank you so much.

 

[MotCO]

The return portion of an Off Peak Return and an Anytime Return is valid for a month.

Are you satisfied that your ticket was out of date?

 

[tpt1212]

Yes, it expired the day before I travelled.

 

[AlterEgo]

GTR basically settle all the time, all they want is the money back. Don’t worry too much about this.

 

[tpt1212]

Update: received my letter today and they issued me with a penalty fare of £80 without any threat to take me to court (unless I didn’t pay the fare). A lot of worrying about the worst case scenario but penalty now paid and will be more vigilant going forward!

 

[WesternLancer]

Update: received my letter today and they issued me with a penalty fare of £80 without any threat to take me to court (unless I didn’t pay the fare). A lot of worrying about the worst case scenario but penalty now paid and will be more vigilant going forward!

Thanks for update and good to hear.

Just for clarity (and I think because you mention you had had previous Penalty Fares before, it is important you are clear in your mind what has happened) - I suspect you have not been issued with a "penalty fare of £80" as you state but what has happened is that they have offered you (and you have wisely paid) an Out of Court Settlement of £80 in exchange for them not pursuing the matter by prosecuting you in court.

The reason it's important for you to be aware of this is because given that you say you have had Penalty Fares before you are 'on their books' as someone who does not always travel with the correct ticket / pay the correct fare for whatever reason (they don't really care what the reason is) - if they stop you again without a correct ticket they may think 'this person is simply not learning a lesson to get the correct ticket - so we need to prosecute this time' -

Obviously you will want to avoid that so make sure you always travel with the correct ticket - if you are unsure if your ticket is correct ask a member of staff at a ticket office before you get on a train.

Anyway - Sorry if this sounds a bit pedantic and I expect you have thought of all this ,so just to say again that glad you have got this sorted out and good luck for the future!

 

[tpt1212]

Yes, you are correct. I used the wrong terminology. The letter does say to please make a payment of £80 - This includes the fare for the journey undertaken. It is understandable how I could have misinterpreted this as a penalty. However this doesn’t really change the outcome. The case is now closed. I now have a PAYG card to use for all journeys which makes things a lot simpler.

My advice to anyone in the same position as me is to not panic, be patient, and don’t assume the worst.