First railway journey for three years

[neilmc]

I don't live near a station and have not needed to make a journey to a large city for the past three years, therefore I haven't used a train, so I get a bit out of touch however it seems to me that over this period we have seen more above-inflation fare rises coupled with poorer service and more TOC ripoffs and unprofessional behaviour by staff.

Last week we had family with us who wanted to visit Edinburgh. Now it made sense to squash into one car and share the driving to Scotland but the cost of Edinburgh hotels was exorbitant so we decided to drive and stay in Grangemouth and use the train to get into Edinburgh for the day from Polmont as opposed to trying to get in by car and park when Fringe Festival was starting.

Firstly I was impressed with the level of service offered, the car park was free and the station fully manned. The ticket clerk offered us a groupsave ticket without me even having to ask, so the cost per head was less than £10. Both trains came on time, were clean, busy without being crowded so we could sit in the same carriage but not all together and on both occasions the ticket was checked without me having to point out the other members of the group. Also there was a warning that should you board without a ricket when the office was open you would not be able to gain the benefit of reduced fare offers - none of this scaring people about penalty fares or going to court!

This was a most relaxing and efficient journey and exceeded my expectations. So is this because:

a) Scotrail are nationalised and the Scottish government won't put up with the sort of crap we get handed to us in England by TOCs
b) Scots are instinctively (on the whole) nicer people than the English
c) we just got lucky?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

d) most experiences are like this but people tend not to post about them.

It’s good to see some positivity from time to time.

 

[signed]

c) we just got lucky?

No, most rides will go just fine and be pleasant.

This is the reviews paradox.

People never say it when something it good (and that's refreshing to see some positivity) but you bet they will bark when it isn't good.

 

[Belperpete]

I don't understand your comment "none of this scaring people about penalty fares or going to court!". When and where are people being scared in this way? I have never heard any on-board scary announcements about penalty fares or taking people to court, for example. People who travel without the correct ticket do get charged penalty fares or do get taken to court, but those who buy the correct ticket have nothing to be scared of.

Again, you make the comment "it seems to me that over this period we have seen more above-inflation fare rises coupled with poorer service and more TOC ripoffs and unprofessional behaviour by staff." How have you got this impression, apparently without being anywhere near a train or station?

In some ways, train travel has actually got more pleasant since covid, as the number of people travelling is still less than it was before, so overcrowding is less of an issue than it was.

 

[DelW]

I don't understand your comment "none of this scaring people about penalty fares or going to court!". When and where are people being scared in this way? I have never heard any on-board scary announcements about penalty fares or taking people to court, for example. People who travel without the correct ticket do get charged penalty fares or do get taken to court, but those who buy the correct ticket have nothing to be scared of.

My local trains (SWR) have frequent announcements saying that if you board one of their trains without a ticket you will be liable to a penalty fare and £100 fine. The (recorded) announcer sounds positively enthusiastic about the possibility.

 

[neilmc]

I don't understand your comment "none of this scaring people about penalty fares or going to court!". When and where are people being scared in this way? I have never heard any on-board scary announcements about penalty fares or taking people to court, for example. People who travel without the correct ticket do get charged penalty fares or do get taken to court, but those who buy the correct ticket have nothing to be scared of.

Again, you make the comment "it seems to me that over this period we have seen more above-inflation fare rises coupled with poorer service and more TOC ripoffs and unprofessional behaviour by staff." How have you got this impression, apparently without being anywhere near a train or station?

In some ways, train travel has actually got more pleasant since covid, as the number of people travelling is still less than it was before, so overcrowding is less of an issue than it was.

As I say I haven't been on a train but I've been keeping an eye on this forum with the multiple misfortunes of other people and the often disgusting treatment they have received, being lied to about the availability of their tickets or refused services or legitimate refunds.

 

[zero]

The practical impossibility of private prosecutions in Scotland is the main reason why there isn't any 'disgusting treatment'.

Penalty fares could exist if there was a will to implement them, although I'd rather have the current system in Scotland replicated in E&W.

I don't know about the statistics but Scotrail is the operator which has ruined most of my travel plans over the past 10 years (ScotGov taking over from Abellio hasn't made any difference to me personally)

 

[Kite159]

My local trains (SWR) have frequent announcements saying that if you board one of their trains without a ticket you will be liable to a penalty fare and £100 fine. The (recorded) announcer sounds positively enthusiastic about the possibility.

To try and reduce the number of passengers whom think payment is strictly optional, especially when it involves unbarriered (but staffed) stations.

As for ScotRail being the shining light, have you seen their temporary timetable due to the ongoing overtime ban?

 

[Falcon1200]

b) Scots are instinctively (on the whole) nicer people than the English

Crikey, talk about a sweeping generalisation!

 

[DelW]

To try and reduce the number of passengers whom think payment is strictly optional, especially when it involves unbarriered (but staffed) stations.

As for ScotRail being the shining light, have you seen their temporary timetable due to the ongoing overtime ban?

I was merely citing SWR's practice as an example, in response to a poster who apparently hadn't heard any such announcements.

I didn't make any comment for or against them, or any comparison with Scotrail.

 

[mrmartin]

I do think in general people are very quick to blame trains when they go "wrong", much more so than other modes of transport. I'm excluding prosecution stuff from this though because I think a lot of it is indefensible.

For example, an hour delay on a train will result in everyone going crazy that the country is failing etc. However when they drive and hit 2 hours of traffic, it's just 'roads are busy'. Similar with flights. Wonder what causes this mentality?

 

[signed]

Similar with flights

Flights are quite different in the fact that delays are mostly hour increments and people are used to that, so 2h is not the worse. And a delay usually doesn't cause snowball effect.

On the railway, it's more of a 15-min based, so 2h is a very long time, and delays can cause avalanche effects

 

[The exile]

Flights are quite different in the fact that delays are mostly hour increments and people are used to that, so 2h is not the worse. And a delay usually doesn't cause snowball effect.

On the railway, it's more of a 15-min based, so 2h is a very long time, and delays can cause avalanche effects

Also, for a lot of people on a plane, getting to the airport, flying somewhere and getting from the airport effectively writes off the whole day anyway, so other than the unpleasantness of being stuck going nowhere, it’s not depriving you of the chance to do anything else. Ironically, many people plan train trips on the assumption that nothing will go wrong.

 

[Belperpete]

Ironically, many people plan train trips on the assumption that nothing will go wrong.

And for trips by plane, assume the opposite - that you are likely to be delayed. Certainly if I am booked on a plane that is due in with an hour say to catch my last train home, I plan on the assumption that I am not going to catch that train.

 

[skyhigh]

As I say I haven't been on a train but I've been keeping an eye on this forum

Hardly anyone creates a thread to say "I got a train today and it was on time", "I made a ticketing mistake and got shown discretion" or the the likes.

Basing your views on rail solely from what you've read online when you've not even been to a station in 3 years is bound to give you a bit of a dodgy viewpoint.

 

[The exile]

And for trips by plane, assume the opposite - that you are likely to be delayed. Certainly if I am booked on a plane that is due in with an hour say to catch my last train home, I plan on the assumption that I am not going to catch that train.

Exactly. Incidentally - what is “arrival time” for a plane? Touchdown or doors open or something else?

 

[Belperpete]

Exactly. Incidentally - what is “arrival time” for a plane? Touchdown or doors open or something else?

They like making an announcement just after touch-down telling you what the time is, to try and make you think that they have got you there early. However, as I understand it, for the purposes of deciding whether you are due compensation or not, it is doors open time - UNLESS the airline claims that the delay between touchdown and doors open was outside its control. For example, if you get put in a holding area until a gate becomes free, and they claim it wasn't the airline's fault.

 

[nanstallon]

The complexities of ticketing, combined with a rather too aggressive enforcement policy which can 'catch out' honest people, are off-putting. The incessant announcements, preventing conversation, are just as bad. These problems can be resolved.

 

[Hadders]

Billions of journeys are made on the railway every year without incident.

A very small minority of them go wrong for some reason (eg major disruption, ticketing irregularity or dispute). We hear about a tiny minority of these problems on here, but because satisfield people generally don't post to say all went well it can become easy to think that what we read on here (especially in sections designed to specifically discuss disputes and prosecutions) is the norm.

 

[AlterEgo]

As I say I haven't been on a train but I've been keeping an eye on this forum with the multiple misfortunes of other people and the often disgusting treatment they have received, being lied to about the availability of their tickets or refused services or legitimate refunds.

Yes that’s survivorship bias. You hang around in the place where people post all the problems.

 

[williamn]

Glad you had a good trip. I travel 1000's of miles (1200 this last week alone) every year on the railways and it's incredibly rare for things to go more wrong than a short delay. So your experience is happily typical. As others have said, people don't tend to remark upon totally routine journeys, plus I think Brits take some perverse pleasure in believing their railways are the worst in Europe (they're really not).