ECML blocked Stevenage - Hitchin (09/08 and 10/08))

[Deafdoggie]

It was everything until 0900 about fifteen minutes ago, so cancellations are creeping forward which isn't a good sign.

I'd expect it to keep slipping too, to the point that today is a write off as far as a normal service is concerned. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect LNER think this too hence why they're already (before 8am) suggesting people defer travel until tomorrow.

As for the 1200 Inverness, I highly they'll be anything in London stock or crew wise to form it.

The passenger requiring Leeds, nothing 10-car from St. Pancras to Sheffield until 1102 that I can see, arriving Sheffield 1pm, so probably too late for them.

Agreed, I'd be jumping on LNERs website and trying to grab fresh reservations for tomorrow rather than travelling today unless absolutely necessary.

I would say good chance!

1Y11 first LNER from Newcastle to run through to London, others after that also running.

See for Inverness normally comes from Skipton, but that service cancelled.

However 1N33 last night was cancelled and set went to Biunds Green, this should be a bimode, so there is potential for that to be used.

The crew will be there for it.

Twitter team also saying it’s due to run when someone has asked.

I guess it's good news that the 12:00 has had an extra stop at Doncaster added. This seems to imply it'll be running.

 

[yorkshireguy21]

1A59 Bradford Int - KGX seems to have gone straight through the affected area on the Up Fast - I’m assuming on diesel?

1A59 is a Grand Central service - all of their trains are diesel only.

 

[Bossworld]

Got caught up in all this yesterday evening, was due to take the 1900 KGX to NCL.

At 7:30 with no real update, abandoned ship and got the EMR up to Chesterfield. Not sure what the mobile phone data signal is usually like on that route but had no chance given how busy the train was. The Travelodge near Sheffield was £48 at about 8pm but couldn't get it to book, and it went up to £76 when my partner tried remotely. Wasn't sure if LNER would cover the cost so just stayed at my parents'.

Thought I'd have to make my own way over to Doncaster this morning but wasn't sure (m)any LNER services would be running.

Spoke to XC overnight on Twitter and they very kindly said yes to using the 08:05 CHD > NCL direct. Was very busy but checked with guard and he was OK with it too. I think official guidance has been St Pancras > Sheffield EMR , Sheffield > York XC, York > NCL TPE or LNER if available but grateful I didn't have to change.

--

One thing I've noted while bored and looking on Twitter - it seems there's a general lack of Lumo ticket acceptance on LNER. Is there bad blood or something? I remember a previous Lumo issue where their workaround was NCL > Carlisle on Northern, then Carlisle > Euston on Avanti. Would add nearly 2 hours to the journey.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

1025 Lumo appears to have been the first northbound out of King's Cross - now just past Hitchin.
1000 LNER to Aberdeen left at 1036.

 

[dk1]

1025 Lumo appears to have been the first northbound out of King's Cross - now just past Hitchin.
1000 LNER to Aberdeen left at 1036.

Unfortunately the Aberdeen is unlikely to make up time as has had three SSOs imposed upon it.

 

[Banham7]

10:25 Lumo is reported full and standing as expected.

 

[johnr57]

Unfortunately the Aberdeen is unlikely to make up time as has had three SSOs imposed upon it.

SSOs ?

 

[LUYMun]

I’ve been travelling to Peterborough to visit the Nene Valley Railway this morning, and I should’ve checked beforehand when I arrived at Kings Cross just before 0900 where every train from the terminal was cancelled. Thankfully a member of staff directed me to travel via Liverpool Street and Cambridge. It’s also a good measure that I bought an Off peak day return with no route restrictions between the two points!

 

[Trainguy34]

SSOs ?

I presume Special Stop Orders. Now up to 4 (Doncaster, Durham, Morpeth and Alnmouth).

 

[dk1]

SSOs ?

Special Stop Orders

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2024 ==

I was hoping it could make up 7 minutes thus avoiding much of the delay repay for those booked on that train

 

[Tram203]

Special Stop Orders

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2024 ==

I was hoping it could make up 7 minutes thus avoiding much of the delay repay for those booked on that train

Talking of delay repay, I wonder what the total value of claims relating to this incident will be.

Quick back of envelope maths - say 10 trains, 500 people per train, £50 per ticket - quarter of a million quid, purely to exemplify the sorts of figures potentially involved.

Are TOC's compelled to respond to FOI requests giving figures outlaid for delay repay, hotel, taxi, replacement road transport and consequential loss payouts directly relating to specific incidents such as this?

 

[dk1]

Talking of delay repay, I wonder what the total value of claims relating to this incident will be.

Quick back of envelope maths - say 10 trains, 500 people per train, £50 per ticket - quarter of a million quid, purely to exemplify the sorts of figures potentially involved.

Are TOC's compelled to respond to FOI requests giving figures outlaid for delay repay, hotel, taxi, replacement road transport and consequential loss payouts directly relating to specific incidents such as this?

Not totally sure but would imagine LNER will claim from whoever is responsible (could be themselves of course if it was a defective pantograph) but as both they and NR are state owned it’ll just come from the government anyway.

 

[ainsworth74]

Hmm, wonder what's going on there...

They've posted that after they've been transferred to another train.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Travelling from Humberside to London this morning was chaos.
0628 Brough - Doncaster (quick breakfast stop)
0720 Doncaster - Sheffield, where I made sure I was quick over the footbridge to P7 for
0800 1C23 to St Pancras which the TM refused to dispatch until people had de-boarded. We left people behind at every station down to STP and every aisle was completely full and standing as it was only a 5 car. Arrived nearly 20L into London…

Hoping the journey back up later is slightly less stressful and Hull Trains are back running through to KGX!

 

[Andyh82]

That wouldn't get delay repay, that would get delay threepay!

I assume in circumstances like this, effected passengers don’t just get Delay Repay, they get something extra from the train company. A free return anywhere on their network for example?

 

[Trainguy34]

They've posted that after they've been transferred to another train.

Ahh, that makes more sense

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Not totally sure but would imagine LNER will claim from whoever is responsible (could be themselves of course if it was a defective pantograph) but as both they and NR are state owned it’ll just come from the government anyway.

2C55 (Great Northern) was the incident train

 

[dk1]

2C55 (Great Northern) was the incident train

Thanks, then they’ll be checking that pan very thoroughly. Few bob at stake

 

[Bossworld]

Talking of delay repay, I wonder what the total value of claims relating to this incident will be.

Quick back of envelope maths - say 10 trains, 500 people per train, £50 per ticket - quarter of a million quid, purely to exemplify the sorts of figures potentially involved.

Are TOC's compelled to respond to FOI requests giving figures outlaid for delay repay, hotel, taxi, replacement road transport and consequential loss payouts directly relating to specific incidents such as this?

The automated delay repay hasn't kicked in for me despite the cancellation. Hasn't worked for a while in fairness. I've logged it manually as last time I had any kind of refund, they managed to wipe out my Perks balance in the process (I'd part paid using Perks, and the updated balance was just that portion, rather than previous balance + Perks element refund).

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Thanks, then they’ll be checking that pan very thoroughly. Few bob at stake

It's been left on platform 1 at Welwyn. Loco going back up north now

 

[yorkie]

I assume in circumstances like this, effected passengers don’t just get Delay Repay, they get something extra from the train company. A free return anywhere on their network for example?

Good luck with that! It can be difficult just to get th fare back, let alone anything else! When I experienced a lengthy delay on LNER, they erroneously claimed my train was not cancelled. The claim had to be appealed and they didn't give a penny more than the fare paid, despite the poor conditions on board on top of a delay of around 2 hours.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Not totally sure but would imagine LNER will claim from whoever is responsible (could be themselves of course if it was a defective pantograph) but as both they and NR are state owned it’ll just come from the government anyway.

Exactly. Many people have still to grasp that any (net) costs, refunds, revenue lost and so on now fall on the Treasury or the DfT and thus The Taxpayer. (Apart from a few cases where an external party is responsible and can be pursued for the costs, such as a vehicle incursion.)

 

[800001]

Good luck with that! It can be difficult just to get th fare back, let alone anything else! When I experienced a lengthy delay on LNER, they erroneously claimed my train was not cancelled. The claim had to be appealed and they didn't give a penny more than the fare paid, despite the poor conditions on board on top of a delay of around 2 hours.

I’m still waiting for my refund of a hotel I had to book on 29th July from LNER, been on online chat and told it should be about 20th August when it’s paid!

 

[Tram203]

Exactly. Many people have still to grasp that any (net) costs, refunds, revenue lost and so on now fall on the Treasury or the DfT and thus The Taxpayer. (Apart from a few cases where an external party is responsible and can be pursued for the costs, such as a vehicle incursion.)

My thought was more on what the figures involved may be, as opposed to who ultimately shells out once liability etc is identified.

Agreed though, in regards to the widespread lack of understanding amongst many about where the money ultimately comes from.

 

[GordonT]

Talking of delay repay, I wonder what the total value of claims relating to this incident will be.

Quick back of envelope maths - say 10 trains, 500 people per train, £50 per ticket - quarter of a million quid, purely to exemplify the sorts of figures potentially involved.

Are TOC's compelled to respond to FOI requests giving figures outlaid for delay repay, hotel, taxi, replacement road transport and consequential loss payouts directly relating to specific incidents such as this?

FOI only applies to those TOCs which are directly under government control - LNER are therefore obligated to respond in some way to FOI requests.
There are a number of reasons why FOI requests can be knocked back and one which surfaces occasionally is where the company states that the information sought is not held in the form in which it has been requested.
Rather than framing the question too precisely in terms of seeking a breakdown under categories of your own choosing it might be better to a) ask for a global figure resulting from the incident and b) ask them to break the figure down using your headings as an example but qualify this by a phrase such as "or in whatever detail you are able to provide".
If they really don't want to disclose any of this they may argue that the requested information is commercially sensitive but I'm not sure if that's a reasonable argument in a case like this and where the money is very likely to be coming from state coffers. There is always scope to ask for a review if you are unsatisfied with any response.

 

[horsewalrus]

2C29 is (as far as I can tell) the first non-cancelled GN CBG->KGX, but per RTT it appears to have stopped at Letchworth for the past ~20 minutes - any idea what's going on there?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

2C29 is (as far as I can tell) the first non-cancelled GN CBG->KGX, but per RTT it appears to have stopped at Letchworth for the past ~20 minutes - any idea what's going on there?

Turning around back to Cambridge

 

[dk1]

Exactly. Many people have still to grasp that any (net) costs, refunds, revenue lost and so on now fall on the Treasury or the DfT and thus The Taxpayer. (Apart from a few cases where an external party is responsible and can be pursued for the costs, such as a vehicle incursion.)

I have no sympathy with the DfT. They insisted on bringing in such a ridiculous repay scheme.

 

[387masterrace]

On 1E08, miraculously managed to store all my luggage and get my seat at Durham. It's full and standing, long holds at every station trying to get passengers to deboard (although I must say the train doesn't feel *that* busy). And we haven't even reached the affected area yet...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

My thought was more on what the figures involved may be, as opposed to who ultimately shells out once liability etc is identified.

Agreed though, in regards to the widespread lack of understanding amongst many about where the money ultimately comes from.

Its all govt money now so the industry doesn't need to argue whose liable for what and i believe that Sch8 isn't chased through with LNER now. Important thing is to understand cause of failure and good thing about south end of ECML is all trains have pan cameras now so should be easy enough to get to root cause and then determine whether it was preventable or not.