SWR Class 458 to be retained

[pompeyfan]

I think they’re only currently permitted as hybrids for rescue purposes. Whether or not they could physically work together at 75mph is a different matter, although there would be a lot of pushing and pulling between the units as mentioned by @swr444 above.

 

[Monty]

Who said they can work as 9 cars? I don’t believe this is possible due to the re gearing.

A representative from Porterbrook.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

My understanding is the remaining 458/5s will remain in service for the time being, probably at least until we see the 701s appear in real numbers.

...or until they run out of miles, as we've seen with one or two of them

 

[Monty]

...or until they run out of miles, as we've seen with one or two of them

Mileages is something that is relatively easy thing to sort out subject to agreements over maintenance and costs. It won't be the last you've seen of them.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Mileages is something that is relatively easy thing to sort out subject to agreements over maintenance and costs. It won't be the last you've seen of them.

Some need C4 exams, I doubt they'd want to go through with those if they're only going to be running for a short period

 

[DCtrains]

TMS throws a hissy fit if you try and couple a /4 and a /5

 

[mansonlo49]

anyone know whether is this a 458 and which unit please, thanks

 

[swr444]

anyone know whether is this a 458 and which unit please, thanks

455702

 

[TEW]

458412 allocated to enter service this afternoon on 2S45, 1522 London Waterloo to Weybridge.

 

[brooklynbound]

Just been on the 1252 Waterloo to Weybridge which was a pair of 458/4s. Real Time Trains doesn't id the units. Sat in first class, at a glance looks nice and new but then you realise the edge of the carpet's frayed and the panels on the walls have serious damp stains no doubt becaue the failed window seals haven't been dealt with. You have to ask why have they bothered.

 

[swr444]

Just been on the 1252 Waterloo to Weybridge which was a pair of 458/4s. Real Time Trains doesn't id the units. Sat in first class, at a glance looks nice and new but then you realise the edge of the carpet's frayed and the panels on the walls have serious damp stains no doubt becaue the failed window seals haven't been dealt with. You have to ask why have they bothered.

they show up if you go to the detailed section, RTT hasn't made a 458/4 picture diagram of the trains yet so doesn't show up as an image

 

[mansonlo49]

455702

thanks

 

[Goldfish62]

Just been on the 1252 Waterloo to Weybridge which was a pair of 458/4s. Real Time Trains doesn't id the units. Sat in first class, at a glance looks nice and new but then you realise the edge of the carpet's frayed and the panels on the walls have serious damp stains no doubt becaue the failed window seals haven't been dealt with. You have to ask why have they bothered.

The former 1st Class area is poor because apart from replacing the carpet with lino during the 458/5 conversion the area has been not been touched since the 1st Class was upgraded around 20 years ago.

If they do ever end up on the PDL line I can't see 1st Class passengers being happy! Standard class however is a massive improvement over 450s.

 

[TEW]

It definitely has been worked on again with the /4 conversions. The dividing door and carpet is back, and the seats and tables are new. The issues with the windows are the same as elsewhere in the train of course.

 

[Goldfish62]

It definitely has been worked on again with the /4 conversions. The dividing door and carpet is back, and the seats and tables are new. The issues with the windows are the same as elsewhere in the train of course.

I know what work has been done. I was highlighting that the areas which haven't been done haven't been touched for 20 years, eg the mouldy cloth on the walls.

 

[Bikeman78]

I think they’re only currently permitted as hybrids for rescue purposes. Whether or not they could physically work together at 75mph is a different matter, although there would be a lot of pushing and pulling between the units as mentioned by @swr444 above.

Fundamentally no different to a VEP+EPB combination, or 142/150/156+158 combination.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Fundamentally no different to a VEP+EPB combination, or 142/150/156+158 combination.

Or a 33+TC+VEP formation, which certainly involved a big kick as the electric part would start moving before the diesel.

 

[TEW]

Another diagram added next week:

2R07 0717 Twickenham to Waterloo
2S17 0822 Waterloo to Weybridge
2S26 1003 Weybridge to Waterloo
2S31 1152 Waterloo to Weybridge
2S40 1333 Weybridge to Waterloo
2V41 1507 Waterloo to Waterloo via Brentford and Richmond
2R47 1645 Waterloo to Waterloo via Richmond and Brentford
2S57 1822 Waterloo to Weybridge
2S66 2003 Weybridge to Waterloo
2S71 2152 Waterloo to Weybridge
2S80 2333 Weybridge to Staines

3 pairs will also be out this Saturday for the first time.

 

[SWT_USER]

Travelled on one for the first time yesterday - really pleasant and much nicer than a 450 or 455. I hope their introduction to replace existing 8 car services is ramped up from here on in.

A shame about the 20% cut in badly needed capacity.

 

[pompeyfan]

I must stress that this is completely speculative, but I saw a suggestion yesterday that the 458/4 may see further use than previously planned.

Once all the 701s are introduced there will be far too many trains for the service level SWR are currently providing. Supposedly SWR cannot increase the service as they cannot retain enough metro guards. The suggestion is that 701s and 458/4s may live on at the expense of 450s due to leasing costs. 701s and 458/4s could see service on Altons, Basingstokes and Haslemeres.

 

[swr444]

I must stress that this is completely speculative, but I saw a suggestion yesterday that the 458/4 may see further use than previously planned.

Once all the 701s are introduced there will be far too many trains for the service level SWR are currently providing. Supposedly SWR cannot increase the service as they cannot retain enough metro guards. The suggestion is that 701s and 458/4s may live on at the expense of 450s due to leasing costs. 701s and 458/4s could see service on Altons, Basingstokes and Haslemeres.

If they were clever, they would scrap the pay increase increments for new metro guards, thus solving the retention problem.

 

[SWT_USER]

I must stress that this is completely speculative, but I saw a suggestion yesterday that the 458/4 may see further use than previously planned.

Once all the 701s are introduced there will be far too many trains for the service level SWR are currently providing. Supposedly SWR cannot increase the service as they cannot retain enough metro guards. The suggestion is that 701s and 458/4s may live on at the expense of 450s due to leasing costs. 701s and 458/4s could see service on Altons, Basingstokes and Haslemeres.

Any idea how long the least on the 450's is? Given the surplus of rolling stock you'd think the TOC/ Govt would be in a pretty strong negotiating position for any talks on an extension.

Of course this all assumes SWR will actually get the 701's in to service, which isn't a given based on the story so far.

 

[43096]

I must stress that this is completely speculative, but I saw a suggestion yesterday that the 458/4 may see further use than previously planned.

Once all the 701s are introduced there will be far too many trains for the service level SWR are currently providing. Supposedly SWR cannot increase the service as they cannot retain enough metro guards. The suggestion is that 701s and 458/4s may live on at the expense of 450s due to leasing costs. 701s and 458/4s could see service on Altons, Basingstokes and Haslemeres.

Well, well, well. What have I said previously?

Any idea how long the least on the 450's is? Given the surplus of rolling stock you'd think the TOC/ Govt would be in a pretty strong negotiating position for any talks on an extension.

Of course this all assumes SWR will actually get the 701's in to service, which isn't a given based on the story so far.

The 450s (and 444s) are on a Section 54 agreement until 23 April 2025, so are now only guaranteed to be leased until SWR’s current contract end date in May next year. The 458s are on lease until 2027.

 

[DelW]

I must stress that this is completely speculative, but I saw a suggestion yesterday that the 458/4 may see further use than previously planned.

Once all the 701s are introduced there will be far too many trains for the service level SWR are currently providing. Supposedly SWR cannot increase the service as they cannot retain enough metro guards. The suggestion is that 701s and 458/4s may live on at the expense of 450s due to leasing costs. 701s and 458/4s could see service on Altons, Basingstokes and Haslemeres.

It would be even better if SWR were to put them onto the Pompey stoppers that they were converted for, and finally got rid of the suburban-spec 450s off two-hour-long journeys to the coast. Especially while there's only one semi-fast per hour as an alternative, as seems likely for the foreseeable future.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Any idea how long the least on the 450's is? Given the surplus of rolling stock you'd think the TOC/ Govt would be in a pretty strong negotiating position for any talks on an extension.

Of course this all assumes SWR will actually get the 701's in to service, which isn't a given based on the story so far.

The 20 years is up next year.

 

[LUYMun]

Imagine how funny it would be if SWR thought of replacing their fleet of 444/450s with a new batch of Arterios or converted 455s.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Imagine how funny it would be if SWR thought of replacing their fleet of 444/450s with a new batch of Arterios or converted 455s.

I read a few years ago somewhere that at one point apparently (can't confirm this, take it with a heavy grain of salt) SWR wanted to replace all the Desiros with some Aventra variation. Something about a bad relationship with Siemens or the leasing company

 

[SWT_USER]

The 20 years is up next year.

Thanks. Interesting times ahead on SWR then.

[wild speculation] Given @pompeyfan 's comment around issues retaining Metro guards and the lease coming to an end on the Desiros... could we be about to see SWR go DOO on the Metro routes with Desiros completely out? [/wild speculation]

 

[pompeyfan]

Thanks. Interesting times ahead on SWR then.

[wild speculation] Given @pompeyfan 's comment around issues retaining Metro guards and the lease coming to an end on the Desiros... could we be about to see SWR go DOO on the Metro routes with Desiros completely out? [/wild speculation]

Not without a significant payment to drivers. In 2018 it was written into drivers contracts that every passenger train would have a safety critical (rules trained) person on board in addition to the driver, but that going forward method of operation would be driver open / driver close on stock suitable for that method of operation.

Anyway, I’m sure we’re about to get our collars felt by the mods for veering off topic!

 

[Siemens Staines]

Some of the paths for next weeks transfer from/to Widnes are now on RTT. As is normal at this stage, the onward path from Eastleigh to Widnes is yet to be uploaded. I think that this should be 458409 from Widnes and 458506 to Widnes.

Monday 12th August 2024
5Z53 0709 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 0709½ Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 12/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 0709½ departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 12/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 12/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1311 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 12/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 13th August 2024
5X64 1130 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1130 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 13/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1130 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 13/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 13/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1531 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 13/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 13/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2018 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 13/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk