Letter from GTR - No Railcard

[joi]

Hello can anyone provide proper guidance to how to respond the letter which is showing intention of prosecution
Thank you

 

[jfollows]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

(Although this needs to be in the "disputes & prosecutions" section.)

In order to give you advice tailored to your circumstances, we need more information please:

• What happened and when?
• Please upload copies of letters you have received, with personal details removed.

In the meantime you can read up on other cases to see if there are those with similar circumstances to yours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Please read advice and guidance posted at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/

 

[joi]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

(Although this needs to be in the "disputes & prosecutions" section.)

In order to give you advice tailored to your circumstances, we need more information please:

• What happened and when?
• Please upload copies of letters you have received, with personal details removed.

In the meantime you can read up on other cases to see if there are those with similar circumstances to yours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Please read advice and guidance posted at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/

Hello
Last month I didn’t remember the date inspector caught me with out railcard when he asked me i am in hurry and fumbling said I have at home. But I don’t have 16 to 25 railcard at home so after that I purchased and upload it to gtr website. Now I got letter now I wanted to reply as I am student I am confused about the situation and I don’t have such bad experience. So now what to respond to this letter provide guidance.
Thank you

 

[Gloster]

To make it clear: you bought a ticket with a 16-25 Railcard reduction, but you did not have a 16-25 Railcard at all when you travelled. Is that what happened?

What journey were you making and which train company has written to you?

 

[joi]

To make it clear: you bought a ticket with a 16-25 Railcard reduction, but you did not have a 16-25 Railcard at all when you travelled. Is that what happened?

What journey were you making and which train company has written to you?

Yes it’s true company is gtr

 

[John R]

Have you previously bought tickets online with a railcard discount applied? If so, you can expect GTR to investigate your account and look for any more instances, and take them into consideration in determining any settlement offer they make as an alternative to prosecution.

 

[joi]

Have you previously bought tickets online with a railcard discount applied? If so, you can expect GTR to investigate your account and look for any more instances, and take them into consideration in determining any settlement offer they make as an alternative to prosecution.

I have a physical ticket not online ticket at that time so i am bit confused can you guide what i need to reply on this letter?

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes it’s true company is gtr

So to be clear the reason they are threatening you with prosecution now is that you are required to own the Railcard before you start the journey and get on the train. As you only bought the Railcard later you have committed a ticketing offence.

This letter is your chance to send them an apology for not having a valid ticket and ask if they would be prepared to consider letting you settle the matter for any sums owed to them without taking court action to prosecute you.

You should start to draft a reply along those lines and post it up here if you would like so that people can check it for you before you send it.

If you do not reply they will prosecute you and you will be found guilty. The punishment from the court will be a court fine + costs and also a criminal record.

So vital that you reply to this and make sure they receive your reply safely (eg send it signed for in the Royal Mail post so you can track it)

 

[John R]

I have a physical ticket not online ticket at that time so i am bit confused can you guide what i need to reply on this letter?

If you had a physical ticket then the point I was trying to make doesn’t apply.

If you have a look at other similar cases, @Hadders sets out how you should reply to maximise your chances of a settlement offer, but in summary you should apologise sincerely, promise not to do it again, and ask very nicely if they would consider an out of court settlement instead of prosecution.

 

[joi]

If you had a physical ticket then the point I was trying to make doesn’t apply.

If you have a look at other similar cases, @Hadders sets out how you should reply to maximise your chances of a settlement offer, but in summary you should apologise sincerely, promise not to do it again, and ask very nicely if they would consider an out of court settlement instead of prosecution.

Yes for sure because honestly I am feeling bad and I instantly purchased railcards online to avoid this in future. Is there more chances to settle out of court settlement or prosecution which thing gtr prefer for first time?

 

[jfollows]

GTR will usually settle out of court (if you follow the advice from @Hadders and others).

 

[joi]

So to be clear the reason they are threatening you with prosecution now is that you are required to own the Railcard before you start the journey and get on the train. As you only bought the Railcard later you have committed a ticketing offence.

This letter is your chance to send them an apology for not having a valid ticket and ask if they would be prepared to consider letting you settle the matter for any sums owed to them without taking court action to prosecute you.

You should start to draft a reply along those lines and post it up here if you would like so that people can check it for you before you send it.

If you do not reply they will prosecute you and you will be found guilty. The punishment from the court will be a court fine + costs and also a criminal record.

So vital that you reply to this and make sure they receive your reply safely (eg send it signed for in the Royal Mail post so you can track it)

Can you provide how to draft the letter Bcz I don’t how to write professional or perfect letter it’s so helpful from what I start writing letter ?
Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Can you provide how to draft the letter Bcz I don’t how to write professional or perfect letter it’s so helpful from what I start writing letter ?
Thank you

I'm sorry but I am not going to write a letter for you. But you can find examples of such letters on other threads to give you an idea of what to write in reply. Or alternatively you could pay someone to handle this for you - a solicitor for example. Or perhaps you have a friend who could help you write it, if English is not your first language.

This thread has an example of the sort of reply you could write (though in your case you would be apologising for travel without a Valid Railcard, not for 'short faring' so you would amend that bit

GTR Prosecution Reply

Hi everyone, I've read through a fair few other GTR prosecution threads and have written up a draft to reply to them, was just wondering if anyone would change anything before i send it. Thanks! Dear Govia Thameslink Railway, I am writing in regard to the case * On the 3rd of June I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Have ago at writing something like that and put it here for people to check before you send it.

 

[joi]

I'm sorry but I am not going to write a letter for you. But you can find examples of such letters on other threads to give you an idea of what to write in reply. Or alternatively you could pay someone to handle this for you - a solicitor for example.

Okay thanks can you provide feedback if I write draft and post it here?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am student

Can you provide how to draft the letter Bcz I don’t how to write professional or perfect letter it’s so helpful from what I start writing letter ?
Thank you

As a student, it's quite likely that you will have to hand in some written work. So think of this letter as being like that, and structure it to say what you need to say, clearly and without unnecessary repetition. While it doesn't have to be very long
- have a beginning (explain what you are writing about)
- have the body of your letter (explain why you got things wrong: explain that you are sorry, and will try to avoid getting things wrong in future: explain what you have now done to avoid getting things wrong i.e. you have bought a railcard to avoid making the same mistake in future)
- have a conclusion (explain what you want to happen - which is to ask the railway if they will consider settling out of court)

If you can convince the railway that you won't do it again, they will probably let you 'settle out of court', which means you paying the train fare that you should have paid, plus the costs of their investigations. The cost of investigation could be £150 or more so this will feel like a lot of money - but it will almost certainly be cheaper than being taken to court and fined.

 

[joi]

Is there more chance if we reply to letter for out of court settlement?
Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Is there more chance if we reply to letter for out of court settlement?
Thank you

Yes, a reply is pretty much the only way to get an out of court settlement. It is what you need to do to request one. There is a good chance that they will agree to a settlement if you reply, apologise for what you did and ask for a settlement to be considered.

If you do not reply they will prosecute you without further warning.

If you are a student you may be able to get help writing a reply from your Student Union or college / university student Advice Centre if you want to ask them, but you need to act quickly. But the reply is not difficult to write and people here can check it for you when you have written it.

 

[Hadders]

It is very important that you reply to the letter. It isn't like a parking ticket or something you can ignore thinking it will go away. If you don't reply then you will end up in court and with a criminal conviction.

I would mention the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Have a look at some other threads in this section of the forum and you will see lots of examples of letters that other people in similar situations have written.

Also, be aware that if you are offered an out of court settlement (and GTR nearly always offer to settle) then you will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. Payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

If you post a draft of your reply in this thread forum emmbers will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[joi]

Yes, a reply is pretty much the only way to get an out of court settlement. It is what you need to do to request one. There is a good chance that they will agree to a settlement if you reply, apologise for what you did and ask for a settlement to be considered.

If you do not reply they will prosecute you without further warning.

If you are a student you may be able to get help writing a reply from your Student Union or college / university student Advice Centre if you want to ask them, but you need to act quickly. But the reply is not difficult to write and people here can check it for you when you have written it.

Dear.....
I am writing in response to the letter dated...... Informing me of the prosecution for no valid ticket for journey on date xyz at abc Station. I understand the seriousness of the matter and would like to provide some mitigation and request consideration for an
Out of court settlement.
I accept that I did not have a valid ticket for journey on the aforementioned date. However at that when insecptor asked me for railcard in nervousness I got fumbled and I said I have 16 to 25 railcard at home. But I don't have it at home as I am not usual traveler to national rails. As. I am living in London. For avoiding this circumstances again I already purchased railcard at that moment.
I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and assure you that it was not intentional. I would like to request that you consider withdrawing the court summons and offering an out of court settlement. I am willing to pay for the fare for that journey and associated administrative costs.
Please let me know if this is something that can be considered. I am waiting for your response to discuss this matter further.

Can you suggest any changes required in this draft so I will change that so I got good chance to convince for out of court settlement
Thank you

 

[joi]

This is my draft reply suggest any changes
Dear.....
I am writing in response to the letter dated...... Informing me of the prosecution for no valid ticket for journey on date xyz at abc Station. I understand the seriousness of the matter and would like to provide some mitigation and request consideration for an
Out of court settlement.
I accept that I did not have a valid ticket for journey on the aforementioned date. However at that when insecptor asked me for railcard in nervousness I got fumbled and I said I have 16 to 25 railcard at home. But I don't have it at home as I am not usual traveler to national rails. As. I am living in London. For avoiding this circumstances again I already purchased railcard at that moment.
I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and assure you that it was not intentional. I would like to request that you consider withdrawing the court summons and offering an out of court settlement. I am willing to pay for the fare for that journey and associated administrative costs.
Please let me know if this is something that can be considered. I am waiting for your response to discuss this matter further.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This is my draft reply suggest any changes
Dear.....
I am writing in response to the letter dated...... Informing me of the prosecution for no valid ticket for journey on date xyz at abc Station. I understand the seriousness of the matter and would like to provide some mitigation and request consideration for an
Out of court settlement.
I accept that I did not have a valid ticket for journey on the aforementioned date. However at that when insecptor asked me for railcard in nervousness I got fumbled and I said I have 16 to 25 railcard at home. But I don't have it at home as I am not usual traveler to national rails. As. I am living in London. For avoiding this circumstances again I already purchased railcard at that moment.
I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and assure you that it was not intentional. I would like to request that you consider withdrawing the court summons and offering an out of court settlement. I am willing to pay for the fare for that journey and associated administrative costs.
Please let me know if this is something that can be considered. I am waiting for your response to discuss this matter further.

I think this is fine: it covers the main points and is clear in what it means, although there are places where the grammar could be better.

One thing that you might want to change - the railway hasn't (yet) decided to take you to court - the letter they have sent you says that they might do this. So you are right to ask for an out of court settlement but you don't yet need to ask them to withdraw the summons as they haven't sent one yet.

 

[jfollows]

I think this is fine: it covers the main points and is clear in what it means, although there are places where the grammar could be better.

One thing that you might want to change - the railway hasn't (yet) decided to take you to court - the letter they have sent you says that they might do this. So you are right to ask for an out of court settlement but you don't yet need to ask them to withdraw the summons as they haven't sent one yet.

I agree, it's a much better letter than the ones we see here which are generated by computers, because this letter is clearly genuine and - with the one change proposed - covers what is required.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello - good work in getting this prepared. I would suggest some minor changes as below. I hope these help you by small adjustments to the words that I think will help make it clearer for what you are asking the railway company.
Bold to help show new bits, strikethrough for deletions. I hope it is clear and includes helpful suggestions by others.

Also when you send this
a) keep a copy of everything they sent you and you send them
b) you need to be 100% sure they receive it - so I suggest sending it in the Royal Mail post with a signed for service so you can track that it arrived safely. You can do this at any local post office near you at the counter.
Good luck



Dear.....

Insert any Reference Number:

I am writing in response to the letter dated...... Informing me of the risk of prosecution for no valid ticket for journey on date xyz at abc Station. I understand the seriousness of the matter and would like to provide some mitigation and request consideration for an Out of court settlement.

I accept that I did not have a valid ticket for journey on the aforementioned date. However at that when the Inspector insecptor asked me for a railcard, in nervousness I got fumbled and I said I have 16 to 25 railcard at home. But I don't have it at home as I am not usual traveler using National Rail services national rails as I am living in London.

For avoiding this circumstances again I already purchased railcard at that moment to correct my mistake and to make sure this would not happen again.

I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and assure you that it was not intentional.

I would like to request that you consider not prosecuting withdrawing the court summons and kindly offering an out of court settlement to resolve things. I am willing to pay for the fare for that journey and associated administrative costs.

Please let me know if this is something that can be considered. I am waiting for your response to discuss this matter further.

Yours sincerely

 

[joi]

Hello - good work in getting this prepared. I would suggest some minor changes as below. I hope these help you by small adjustments to the words that I think will help make it clearer for what you are asking the railway company.
Bold to help show new bits, strikethrough for deletions. I hope it is clear and includes helpful suggestions by others.

Also when you send this
a) keep a copy of everything they sent you and you send them
b) you need to be 100% sure they receive it - so I suggest sending it in the Royal Mail post with a signed for service so you can track that it arrived safely. You can do this at any local post office near you at the counter.
Good luck



Dear.....

Insert any Reference Number:

I am writing in response to the letter dated...... Informing me of the risk of prosecution for no valid ticket for journey on date xyz at abc Station. I understand the seriousness of the matter and would like to provide some mitigation and request consideration for an Out of court settlement.

I accept that I did not have a valid ticket for journey on the aforementioned date. However at that when the Inspector insecptor asked me for a railcard, in nervousness I got fumbled and I said I have 16 to 25 railcard at home. But I don't have it at home as I am not usual traveler using National Rail services national rails as I am living in London.

For avoiding this circumstances again I already purchased railcard at that moment to correct my mistake and to make sure this would not happen again.

I am truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused and assure you that it was not intentional.

I would like to request that you consider not prosecuting withdrawing the court summons and kindly offering an out of court settlement to resolve things. I am willing to pay for the fare for that journey and associated administrative costs.

Please let me know if this is something that can be considered. I am waiting for your response to discuss this matter further.

Yours sincerely

How many chances of getting out of court settlement in this situation as I don’t have any criminal record or I didn’t have did this in past?
Where to sent letter on given address on the letter?

 

[WesternLancer]

How many chances of getting out of court settlement in this situation as I don’t have any criminal record or I didn’t have did this in past?
Where to sent letter on given address on the letter?

You should send your reply to the letter to the address for the railway that I believe is at the top of the letter you received, which you have scanned and uploaded earlier in the thread. You have to write your reply on that or attach it as a copy making sure every bit of paper you send has your name and address and the refence number so they can be easily be matched up if they got separated in their office (they deal with hundreds of these every week I expect so you do not want yours muddled up with anyone else's)

They often ask you to write it on the back of what they sent you and send it all back - you can do this if your handwriting is neat. Keep a copy of every page for your own records.

I would say you have a strong chance of getting an out of court settlement so long as they get your reply quickly. Which is why I suggest sending it post office tracked service to be sure they get it and that you know they have got it.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

How many chances of getting out of court settlement in this situation as I don’t have any criminal record or I didn’t have did this in past?

As long as you co-operate with the railway (and you are doing so by sending them this letter) it's likely that they will agree to settle out of court. We can't guarantee that will happen, but I don't remember seeing any cases involving GTR which ended up in court as long as contact was kept up (n.b. there have been a very few where emails and letters seems to have got lost, but even with those GTR have been willing to settle once the muddle was sorted out)

Where to sent letter on given address on the letter?

There should be an address at the top right of the letter that GTR sent you. Send your reply to there.

 

[Haywain]

I don't remember seeing any cases involving GTR which ended up in court as long as contact was kept up

There have been a couple, but I suspect we were not being given the whole story.

 

[John R]

As long as you co-operate with the railway (and you are doing so by sending them this letter) it's likely that they will agree to settle out of court. We can't guarantee that will happen, but I don't remember seeing any cases involving GTR which ended up in court as long as contact was kept up (n.b. there have been a very few where emails and letters seems to have got lost, but even with those GTR have been willing to settle once the muddle was sorted out)

There should be an address at the top right of the letter that GTR sent you. Send your reply to there.

I recall one case where for reasons that nobody could understand GTR refused to offer an OOC settlement and was determined to prosecute. From memory the poster then engaged one of the specialist solicitors and that did the trick, though obviously at the additional cost of legal fees.

 

[joi]

As long as you co-operate with the railway (and you are doing so by sending them this letter) it's likely that they will agree to settle out of court. We can't guarantee that will happen, but I don't remember seeing any cases involving GTR which ended up in court as long as contact was kept up (n.b. there have been a very few where emails and letters seems to have got lost, but even with those GTR have been willing to settle once the muddle was sorted out)

There should be an address at the top right of the letter that GTR sent you. Send your reply to there.

How much time it will take to deliver post by royal email to prosecution teams?

 

[WesternLancer]

How much time it will take to deliver post by royal email to prosecution teams?

See Royal Mail website for delivery targets for 1st and 2nd class post or you can pay for guaranteed next day delivery if you want to. Do that at a post office.