Great Northern Penalty Fare

[paaviii]

Hi all,

I had a very stressful and unpleasant experience on my trip to work last week, having been issued a Penalty Fare Notice in circumstances which I feel are unfair. I think it's fair to say that I feel so aggrieved that given the regular bad service(delays/cancellations), and what I put up with on train services almost every day. This experience has made me feel like a dishonest, fare-dodging passenger with what felt like no recourse! Anyway, In the paragraph below I will explain the circumstances in which I was charged a Penalty Fare. I am determined to appeal and would be grateful for any comments/ideas on what I should include in it and things that might improve my prospects, I appreciate any help and advice you all can provide.

"
1. On the 23rd of July 2024, I traveled on the off-peak Great Northern service departing at 9.38 am, from Bowes Park to Stevenage.
2. This morning I was running late and there are no ticket gates at Bowes Park, usually, I buy my daily return ticket on the walk to the station but this time I did it 5 minutes after boarding the train (Train Wi-Fi slowed me down).
3. Halfway through the journey, the ticket inpector lady came and I presented her with the digital ticket on the TrainLine app. She was not happy with the fact that there was no time of journey (PFA) on the ticket, this was because the ticket was for "all day off-peak travel", she asked me to meet her again once we reached Stevenage on the platform.

4. Once I arrived in Stevenage (final station) she was waiting for me at the ticket gates. She asked the staff on the platform to scan my ticket with their phone and She then asked the staff to give info on when the ticket was bought. This was the moment I realized I was in trouble. They said the ticket was bought after the train had left Bowes Park and I was handed a Penalty Fare of £116.8 for the reason "No Ticket" (attaching my fine receipt as well).

5. I wasn’t aware that this was, or could have been an issue. I was very confused about it and distressed. I explained this, and how I had purchased my ticket, to the employee issuing my penalty fare. It was disregarded. I had purchased a valid ticket with the correct fare for the journey that I was taking. There is no question of not buying a ticket, or not buying the correct ticket. Great Northern publicises that it uses the penalty fare scheme to ensure that “all passenger journeys made with us are paid for”. It explains that it is for “ticketless travel and fraud” and because such travel “is unfair for our honest, paying passengers”.

6. In this case, it has been decided that buying a ticket on board due to circumstances for travel is sufficient to classify me as a “ticketless traveler”, and by implication, treat me as a dishonest passenger

7. In any case, I want to appeal the penalty fare notice because of my particular circumstances including those outlined above, I should not be liable to pay the penalty fare, maybe a warning would have sufficed"

I plan to attach my ticket from the day, the penalty notice, and a screenshot of my previous history of daily travel to work. to prove I am an honest-to-God traveler who would never cheat the system. I am also thinking of paying my penalty fare to further prove my honesty and if they find in their hearts to see how I have been fined unjustly they can refund the penalty fare.

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

While you're waiting for the experts to comment, you might like to cover up the reference number on the PFN you were given.

 

[furlong]

Could you just say a little more about those two tickets? Why you bought two separate ones, and why singles rather than returns?
If they look at your ticket purchasing history what will they see?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2024 ==

The penalty itself indeed looks wrong - you did present a valid ticket (there's no minimum fare in July/August), so a penalty can't be imposed. But I'd be more concerned about what they'll see in your ticket purchasing history as you said you buy returns before reaching the station, but you've shown us a split only covering the outward.

What time were each of the two tickets purchased and which did you buy first?

Where "half-way" through the journey did the inspection take place?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

I had a very stressful and unpleasant experience on my trip to work last week, having been issued a Penalty Fare Notice in circumstances which I feel are unfair. I think it's fair to say that I feel so aggrieved that given the regular bad service(delays/cancellations), and what I put up with on train services almost every day. This experience has made me feel like a dishonest, fare-dodging passenger with what felt like no recourse! Anyway, In the paragraph below I will explain the circumstances in which I was charged a Penalty Fare. I am determined to appeal and would be grateful for any comments/ideas on what I should include in it and things that might improve my prospects, I appreciate any help and advice you all can provide.

"
1. On the 23rd of July 2024, I traveled on the off-peak Great Northern service departing at 9.38 am, from Bowes Park to Stevenage.
2. This morning I was running late and there are no ticket gates at Bowes Park, usually, I buy my daily return ticket on the walk to the station but this time I did it 5 minutes after boarding the train (Train Wi-Fi slowed me down).
3. Halfway through the journey, the ticket inpector lady came and I presented her with the digital ticket on the TrainLine app. She was not happy with the fact that there was no time of journey (PFA) on the ticket, this was because the ticket was for "all day off-peak travel", she asked me to meet her again once we reached Stevenage on the platform.

4. Once I arrived in Stevenage (final station) she was waiting for me at the ticket gates. She asked the staff on the platform to scan my ticket with their phone and She then asked the staff to give info on when the ticket was bought. This was the moment I realized I was in trouble. They said the ticket was bought after the train had left Bowes Park and I was handed a Penalty Fare of £116.8 for the reason "No Ticket" (attaching my fine receipt as well).

5. I wasn’t aware that this was, or could have been an issue. I was very confused about it and distressed. I explained this, and how I had purchased my ticket, to the employee issuing my penalty fare. It was disregarded. I had purchased a valid ticket with the correct fare for the journey that I was taking. There is no question of not buying a ticket, or not buying the correct ticket. Great Northern publicises that it uses the penalty fare scheme to ensure that “all passenger journeys made with us are paid for”. It explains that it is for “ticketless travel and fraud” and because such travel “is unfair for our honest, paying passengers”.

6. In this case, it has been decided that buying a ticket on board due to circumstances for travel is sufficient to classify me as a “ticketless traveler”, and by implication, treat me as a dishonest passenger

7. In any case, I want to appeal the penalty fare notice because of my particular circumstances including those outlined above, I should not be liable to pay the penalty fare, maybe a warning would have sufficed"

I plan to attach my ticket from the day, the penalty notice, and a screenshot of my previous history of daily travel to work. to prove I am an honest-to-God traveler who would never cheat the system. I am also thinking of paying my penalty fare to further prove my honesty and if they find in their hearts to see how I have been fined unjustly they can refund the penalty fare.View attachment 162895View attachment 162894View attachment 162893

Experts here will no doubt help you compose an Appeal if it is felt that one has a chance of success (or even if it does not since there are advantages to appealing even if the chance of success is slim to none) - but also note that when Appealing through all stages of the process it stope the clock on the promptly payment penalty discount of £50

 

[Haywain]

@paaviii You will probably be able to overturn the Penalty Fare with the help of experts here, but you should be aware that joining a train without having first bought a ticket is an offence, provided that ticket selling facilities are available.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Could you just say a little more about those two tickets? Why you bought two separate ones, and why singles rather than returns?

Another issue is that Bowes Park has both a Ticket Office that should have been open when the OP boarded the train (assuming it was the 09:38 to Stevenage) and a TVM at the bottom of the stairs leading to the (island) platform.

The penalty itself indeed looks wrong - you did present a valid ticket (there's no minimum fare in July/August), so a penalty can't be imposed.

Alternatively, from the RPI's point of view, the OP was paying when challenged having failed to use at least one (and possibly two) opportunity to buy a valid ticket before boarding.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

I had a very stressful and unpleasant experience on my trip to work last week, having been issued a Penalty Fare Notice in circumstances which I feel are unfair. I think it's fair to say that I feel so aggrieved that given the regular bad service(delays/cancellations), and what I put up with on train services almost every day. This experience has made me feel like a dishonest, fare-dodging passenger with what felt like no recourse! Anyway, In the paragraph below I will explain the circumstances in which I was charged a Penalty Fare. I am determined to appeal and would be grateful for any comments/ideas on what I should include in it and things that might improve my prospects, I appreciate any help and advice you all can provide.

"
1. On the 23rd of July 2024, I traveled on the off-peak Great Northern service departing at 9.38 am, from Bowes Park to Stevenage.
2. This morning I was running late and there are no ticket gates at Bowes Park, usually, I buy my daily return ticket on the walk to the station but this time I did it 5 minutes after boarding the train (Train Wi-Fi slowed me down).
3. Halfway through the journey, the ticket inpector lady came and I presented her with the digital ticket on the TrainLine app. She was not happy with the fact that there was no time of journey (PFA) on the ticket, this was because the ticket was for "all day off-peak travel", she asked me to meet her again once we reached Stevenage on the platform.

4. Once I arrived in Stevenage (final station) she was waiting for me at the ticket gates. She asked the staff on the platform to scan my ticket with their phone and She then asked the staff to give info on when the ticket was bought. This was the moment I realized I was in trouble. They said the ticket was bought after the train had left Bowes Park and I was handed a Penalty Fare of £116.8 for the reason "No Ticket" (attaching my fine receipt as well).

5. I wasn’t aware that this was, or could have been an issue. I was very confused about it and distressed. I explained this, and how I had purchased my ticket, to the employee issuing my penalty fare. It was disregarded. I had purchased a valid ticket with the correct fare for the journey that I was taking. There is no question of not buying a ticket, or not buying the correct ticket. Great Northern publicises that it uses the penalty fare scheme to ensure that “all passenger journeys made with us are paid for”. It explains that it is for “ticketless travel and fraud” and because such travel “is unfair for our honest, paying passengers”.

6. In this case, it has been decided that buying a ticket on board due to circumstances for travel is sufficient to classify me as a “ticketless traveler”, and by implication, treat me as a dishonest passenger

7. In any case, I want to appeal the penalty fare notice because of my particular circumstances including those outlined above, I should not be liable to pay the penalty fare, maybe a warning would have sufficed"

I plan to attach my ticket from the day, the penalty notice, and a screenshot of my previous history of daily travel to work. to prove I am an honest-to-God traveler who would never cheat the system. I am also thinking of paying my penalty fare to further prove my honesty and if they find in their hearts to see how I have been fined unjustly they can refund the penalty fare.View attachment 162895View attachment 162894View attachment 162893

A few comments on some of your points


3. Halfway through the journey, the ticket inpector lady came and I presented her with the digital ticket on the TrainLine app. She was not happy with the fact that there was no time of journey (PFA) on the ticket, this was because the ticket was for "all day off-peak travel",


I assume the train you were on was at an Off Peak time (i've not checked). Her ticket checking machine or the one used later could probably detect that the ticket was bought after the train left the station and would have alerted her to this issue


4) They said the ticket was bought after the train had left Bowes Park and I was handed a Penalty Fare of £116.8 for the reason "No Ticket" (attaching my fine receipt as well).

That is probably a valid reason for issuing a Penalty Fare as per @Haywain's post above ('Buy Before you Board' policy)


5. I wasn’t aware that this was, or could have been an issue.

Sadly not a basis for a successful Appeal I fear


6. In this case, it has been decided that buying a ticket on board due to circumstances for travel is sufficient to classify me as a “ticketless traveler”, and by implication, treat me as a dishonest passenger

You were presumably ticketless when you boarded the train? that is the problem, even if you rectified that shortly afterwards and always had every intention to do so I don't think that makes a difference in terms of the relevant railway ticket law.

7. In any case, I want to appeal the penalty fare notice because of my particular circumstances including those outlined above, I should not be liable to pay the penalty fare, maybe a warning would have sufficed"

Penalty Fares are the least worst sanction they can apply IIRC (other options include being reported for investigation or prosecution) - in some respects the Penalty Fare is the 'warning' sadly

8) I plan to attach my ticket from the day, the penalty notice, and a screenshot of my previous history of daily travel to work. to prove I am an honest-to-God traveler who would never cheat the system. I am also thinking of paying my penalty fare to further prove my honesty and if they find in their hearts to see how I have been fined unjustly they can refund the penalty fare

I don't think that is how Appeals work in this area- you are not able to Appeal to their better nature (it's not handled by the railway anyway but by an independent appeals body) - you have to have a basis for an appeal that lies in the basis that the Penalty Fare was not correctly issued and should thus be overturned.

With luck PF experts here can maybe help find a legitimate reason to Appeal that stands a good chance of success. Even if not I would appeal anyway because AIUI it prevents them bringing a prosecution for ticketless travel should they subsequently opt to do that (though I think this is rare unless they detect a history of ticketless travel etc)

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We could do with knowing a bit more information:

- Why did you purchase a combination of tickets. If my maths is correct you saved just 5p on a single journey from Bowes Park to Stevenage
- Were you making a return journey - if so where to? If it was back to Bowes Park then the cost of another single from Cuffley to Bowes Park would mean paying more than simply buying a return ticket Bowes Park to Stevenage.
- Where was the train when you were challenged by the inspector? Had it passed Cuffley? Were you in possession of both tickets when you were spoken to by the inspector?
- Were both tickets purchased at the same time or was there a delay in purchasing the second ticket?

Legally you are required to passess a ticket before boarding the train, and on this occasion you did not do this. As alluded to above there might be some very technical reasons why your Penalty Fare might be invalid but before persuing this be aware that GTR will research your ticket purchasing history and if this suggests you have travelled with invalid tickets on previous occasions they might want to ask you about that.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Welcome to the forum!

We could do with knowing a bit more information:

- Why did you purchase a combination of tickets. If my maths is correct you saved just 5p on a single journey from Bowes Park to Stevenage

Going to hazard a guess that the OP had SplitSave turned on in the Trainline app when buying the ticket. Trainsplit offers the same split by default.

 

[paaviii]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so very much for all your responses. I am deeply grateful to the forum community just by all of coming to help me.

Maybe I can answer some questions asked-:

1. Why is my Ticket Split - I did not split on purpose, I believe Trainline app has a feature called "Split-Save" which splits tickets to make it cheaper.

2. Why I have uploaded picture of one way journey - Usually the Trainline app remembers the last journey I booked (Bowes Park to Stevenage Return) and so I just quickly click across and purchase the ticket. This time I had bought a one way ticket from Stevenage to Bowes Park the week before, so when I quickly clicked through the following week on the day of the travel I accidentally bought one-way ticket from Stevenage to Bowes Park. I only realised when the ticket showed up on my screen. That's why I bought another one-way from Bowes Park to Stevenage. It was a unlucky day (lost quite a bit of money )

@furlong What do you mean by "(there's no minimum fare in July/August), so a penalty can't be imposed", could this help me in my appeal??

@WesternLancer you said " I don't think that is how Appeals work in this area- you are not able to Appeal to their better nature (it's not handled by the railway anyway but by an independent appeals body) - you have to have a basis for an appeal that lies in the basis that the Penalty Fare was not correctly issued and should thus be overturned.

With luck PF experts here can maybe help find a legitimate reason to Appeal that stands a good chance of success. Even if not I would appeal anyway because AIUI it prevents them bringing a prosecution for ticketless travel should they subsequently opt to do that (though I think this is rare unless they detect a history of ticketless travel etc)"

Do the experts here then think I should appeal or is it better to just pay off the fine and take a L. If you guys think I should appeal, what should I include in it (legitimate reason to Appeal that stands a good chance of success) like @WesternLancer mentioned.

 

[furlong]

OK
- You've a good reason for having a strange pair of tickets like that and you purchased them as a pair because that's how trainline sometimes does things and it wasn't a deliberate choice on your part.
- You've a good reason for only buying a single - because it was a mistake that's easy to make and you really wanted a return and you've unfortunately paid more for that day's travel as a result.
- The minimum fare comment is because for 10 months of the year if you'd used those tickets on that train you'd have been required to pay supplements to bring them up to the level of the minimum fare (or removed the discount).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2024 ==

Can you still confirm the time at which you completed the purchase the tickets - it should be visible in the app and/or emails - and the time of the inspection. How would you challenge an allegation that you only completed the ticket purchase when you realised there was a ticket inspection?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so very much for all your responses. I am deeply grateful to the forum community just by all of coming to help me.

Maybe I can answer some questions asked-:

1. Why is my Ticket Split - I did not split on purpose, I believe Trainline app has a feature called "Split-Save" which splits tickets to make it cheaper.

2. Why I have uploaded picture of one way journey - Usually the Trainline app remembers the last journey I booked (Bowes Park to Stevenage Return) and so I just quickly click across and purchase the ticket. This time I had bought a one way ticket from Stevenage to Bowes Park the week before, so when I quickly clicked through the following week on the day of the travel I accidentally bought one-way ticket from Stevenage to Bowes Park. I only realised when the ticket showed up on my screen. That's why I bought another one-way from Bowes Park to Stevenage. It was a unlucky day (lost quite a bit of money )

@furlong What do you mean by "(there's no minimum fare in July/August), so a penalty can't be imposed", could this help me in my appeal??

@WesternLancer you said " I don't think that is how Appeals work in this area- you are not able to Appeal to their better nature (it's not handled by the railway anyway but by an independent appeals body) - you have to have a basis for an appeal that lies in the basis that the Penalty Fare was not correctly issued and should thus be overturned.

With luck PF experts here can maybe help find a legitimate reason to Appeal that stands a good chance of success. Even if not I would appeal anyway because AIUI it prevents them bringing a prosecution for ticketless travel should they subsequently opt to do that (though I think this is rare unless they detect a history of ticketless travel etc)"

Do the experts here then think I should appeal or is it better to just pay off the fine and take a L. If you guys think I should appeal, what should I include in it (legitimate reason to Appeal that stands a good chance of success) like @WesternLancer mentioned.

I’m not sure I can think of good grounds to appeal that would have strong chance of success. I think the nub of it is post 11 last paragraph.

Whatever you do don’t miss the prompt payment discount deadline. Though submitting an Apeal stops the clock whilst it is considered.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Another option is to Appeal on the basis that the signage at the station you boarded at is not compliant and thus the Penalty Fare is not valid because it has not been issued correctly as a result - people often say on here that signage is not compliant - maybe one of the experts on this technicality can give a bit more info on that - I know some forum regulars are familiar with the regs on what the signage should be and why it is often deficient. @Watershed or @furlong may know perhaps.

You may need to pursue this to all 3 stages of Appeal before any chance of winning.

It may be that the alternative of paying the £50 and chalking it up to experience is an easier option depending on how you value your time.

You have my sympathy with the whole situation!

 

[paaviii]

OK
- You've a good reason for having a strange pair of tickets like that and you purchased them as a pair because that's how trainline sometimes does things and it wasn't a deliberate choice on your part.
- You've a good reason for only buying a single - because it was a mistake that's easy to make and you really wanted a return and you've unfortunately paid more for that day's travel as a result.
- The minimum fare comment is because for 10 months of the year if you'd used those tickets on that train you'd have been required to pay supplements to bring them up to the level of the minimum fare (or removed the discount).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2024 ==

Can you still confirm the time at which you completed the purchase the tickets - it should be visible in the app and/or emails - and the time of the inspection. How would you challenge an allegation that you only completed the ticket purchase when you realised there was a ticket inspection?

Thank you for the prompt response, I have time of purchase (10:11 Transaction Time) but like you mentioned I don't have proof of when the inpector came and such it could be said I bought the ticket after finding out the inspection was taking place. But one key fact which might or might not help is that inspector did not scan my ticket on board (she just read my screen and was not happy with the fact there is no journey time on it), my ticket was scanned at final destination on platform gates in Stevenage at which point they realised I bought ticket after boarding and issued me a fine. Do you think them scanning me ticket is the official time of incepection?? And maybe I can use this grey area as an advantage in my appeal? or it could come back to bite me and I am better of paying the fine?? Thanks

 

[furlong]

So it departed 09.38 and you completed the ticket purchase at 10.11. How do you account for the 30 minutes in between? Given all the time there was, how come you made the mistake of not noticing you were only buying a single when you really needed a return? This has all the signs of looking like a ticket purchased in haste during a ticket inspection, I'm afraid. To argue In strict technical terms, the question is whether the ticket purchase was completed before the inspector said something to the effect of 'Tickets, please!' to the carriage. Whether or not your tickets were scanned then and there isn't really relevant in law. The reason 'no ticket' is an interesting one but I'd argue it relates to the point in time at which the equivalent of 'Tickets, please!' was said. For an appeal that would leave you only with technicalities, such as whether or not the signage at Bowes Park complied with the regulations in terms of wording and placement.

But they made another mistake. The penalty was not issued on the train when this happened. It was issued later and separately at 10.25am at Stevenage and at that point you did present a valid ticket and it was scanned. So I would suggest an appeal on the basis of what happened at 10.25 when you did present a valid ticket, disregarding what happened earlier on the train, together with a standard signage appeal.

 

[WesternLancer]

But they made another mistake. The penalty was not issued on the train when this happened. It was issued later and separately at 10.25am at Stevenage and at that point you did present a valid ticket and it was scanned. So I would suggest an appeal on the basis of what happened at 10.25 when you did present a valid ticket, disregarding what happened earlier on the train, together with a standard signage appeal.

I can't see anything to lose by submitting an Appeal on this basis, although I am not claiming expertise on this.

Might be worth @paaviii putting the draft of their appeal wording up here for it to be checked before submitting it if they have time before deadline - just to get it checked.

 

[paaviii]

My draft is below

"
Dear Great Northern Customer Services,

I am writing to formally appeal against the fine I received on 23rd July 2024. I travel with Great Northern three days a week for work and have always ensured that I have a valid ticket for my journeys.

On the day in question, I was fined for not showcasing a valid ticket. However, I would like to clarify that I had a valid off-peak all-day ticket for my journey. The ticket was purchased on the Train Line app at 10.11 and it did not have indication of a specific time of train time on it (as it was all-day off-peak ticket and I was traveling within off-peak hours). I believe this may have caused some confusion during the ticket inspection which took place at 10:25 and I was presented a fine for travelling without a ticket.

I understand the importance of having a valid ticket before boarding the train, and I assure you that I have been a regular and honest traveler with Great Northern, and my ticket purchase history over the past few weeks can attest to this. I have consistently bought tickets and adhered to the travel regulations.

Attached to the screenshot of my ticket purchase history, you will find proof of my ticket purchases for the past several weeks, which clearly show my commitment to traveling with a valid ticket. I kindly request to reconsider the fine issued to me. I am aware of the rule that I need to be able to present a valid ticket for travel when asked and which I did.

I hope you understand my situation and can see that this was a genuine oversight/confusion rather than an attempt on my side to avoid fare payment. I appreciate your time and consideration in reviewing my appeal.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to a positive resolution.

Sincerely,

Prajyot Sharma
" Attaching Ticket history and I have already shared tickets of that day and fine in the forum before (will put it all the evidence together). The signage at Bowes Park says "Buy before you board" so can't use that. Please let me know what else I should take into account. Again, I appreciate the support from y'all.

Also, my fare grace period expires on the 13th, so if I submit my appeal tomorrow and the grace period freezes will I have 3 days to pay £66 in case my appeal gets rejected?

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

I would remove your name after 'Sincerely' so that you stay anonymous.

 

[30907]

Looking at the PF paperwork upthread, there is an online address for your appeal.
It is not GN customer services!

In addition, the PF appeals service isn't interested in your other journeys. You are required to have a ticket on boarding every time not just most of the time, sorry!

Others have suggested technical grounds for appeal if you wish to pursue them, but your letter as it stands will lead to a refusal.

 

[WesternLancer]

My draft is below

"
Dear Great Northern Customer Services,

I am writing to formally appeal against the fine I received on 23rd July 2024. I travel with Great Northern three days a week for work and have always ensured that I have a valid ticket for my journeys.

On the day in question, I was fined for not showcasing a valid ticket. However, I would like to clarify that I had a valid off-peak all-day ticket for my journey. The ticket was purchased on the Train Line app at 10.11 and it did not have indication of a specific time of train time on it (as it was all-day off-peak ticket and I was traveling within off-peak hours). I believe this may have caused some confusion during the ticket inspection which took place at 10:25 and I was presented a fine for travelling without a ticket.

I understand the importance of having a valid ticket before boarding the train, and I assure you that I have been a regular and honest traveler with Great Northern, and my ticket purchase history over the past few weeks can attest to this. I have consistently bought tickets and adhered to the travel regulations.

Attached to the screenshot of my ticket purchase history, you will find proof of my ticket purchases for the past several weeks, which clearly show my commitment to traveling with a valid ticket. I kindly request to reconsider the fine issued to me. I am aware of the rule that I need to be able to present a valid ticket for travel when asked and which I did.

I hope you understand my situation and can see that this was a genuine oversight/confusion rather than an attempt on my side to avoid fare payment. I appreciate your time and consideration in reviewing my appeal.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to a positive resolution.

Sincerely,

Prajyot Sharma
" Attaching Ticket history and I have already shared tickets of that day and fine in the forum before (will put it all the evidence together). The signage at Bowes Park says "Buy before you board" so can't use that. Please let me know what else I should take into account. Again, I appreciate the support from y'all.

Also, my fare grace period expires on the 13th, so if I submit my appeal tomorrow and the grace period freezes will I have 3 days to pay £66 in case my appeal gets rejected?

Appeals for Penalty Fares go to an independent organisation not the railway company that issued the Penalty Fare to you.

What you have written would be a good letter if you had been reported for investigation and were seeking to avoid court but luckily that’s not happened to you. But I don’t think it’s the basis for a successful Penalty Fare appeal. Sadly appealing to their better nature that you are a regular and good customer that seeks to pay your fare isn’t a basis for an Appeal as set out in the Penalty Fare regulations.

So I would stick to @furlong points in post #14 and use them as your appeal basis. They are easy points to make.

Eg I am appealing this penalty fare because the penalty has not been issued in accordance with the regulations because….
And then this stuff:

“It was at 10.25am at Stevenage and at that point you did present a valid ticket and it was scanned. So I would suggest an appeal on the basis of what happened at 10.25 when you did present a valid ticket, disregarding what happened earlier on the train, together with a standard signage appeal.”

Hopefully @furlong can give you wording or an idea for what a standard signage appeal consists of.

 

[paaviii]

@furlong can you please give an example of what an appeal based on the situation I have re-written now and Stantard Signage would look like? I would be truly grateful.

"
Dear Penalty Services Team,

I am writing to formally appeal against the fine I received on 23rd July 2024. I travel with Great Northern three days a week for work and have always ensured that I have a valid ticket for my journeys.

On the day in question, I was fined for not showcasing a valid ticket. However, I would like to clarify that I had a valid off-peak all-day ticket for my journey. The ticket was purchased on the Train Line app at 10.11 and it did not have indication of a specific time of train time on it (as it was all-day off-peak ticket and I was traveling within off-peak hours). I believe this may have caused some confusion during the ticket inspection which took place at 10:25 and I was presented a fine for travelling without a ticket.

I understand the importance of having a valid ticket before boarding the train, and I assure you that I have been a regular and honest traveler. I kindly request to reconsider the fine issued to me. I am aware of the rule that I need to be able to present a valid ticket for travel when asked for and which I did. (Maybe I include signage as support here?, one of the signage/poster at Bowes Park says "Buy before you board" so can't use that one.)

I hope you understand my situation and can see that this was a genuine oversight/confusion rather than an attempt on my side to avoid fare payment. I appreciate your time and consideration in reviewing my appeal.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to a positive resolution.

Sincerely,
"

Also, my fare grace period expires on the 13th, so if I submit my appeal tomorrow and the grace period freezes will I have 1/2 days to pay £66 in case my appeal gets rejected?

@WesternLancer thank you so much

@30907 I always travel with a ticket, I go to work 3 days a week and was trying to showcase proof of that. If you say it won't help my appeal then I shall not include it. Thanks