Stafford/Norton Bridge

[YorkshireBear]

What increase in capcity is this gonna provide (i know its big but what kinda things is it going to allow)?

 

[Nym]

An extra 3tph IIRC, basically, more services up the WCML to Crewe, and more Birmingham - Manchester paths.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Completion due by end of 2016 for 2017 timetable. NR say it wil allow two additional fasts per hour to Crewe, one additional Manchester-Birmingham, and one additonal freight.

Which freight service will be the best suited for the "one additional freight"?

 

[Nym]

So, the two extra fasts will mean 2tph for Liverpool and 2tph for Preston, and the extra Manchester - Brum to be a

Euston - Birmingham - Manchester

Theres a fair few options for the extra fasts to CRE

Euston - Crewe - :

Earlstown - Manchester Victoria - Rochdale - Todmorden - Bradford Interchange
Earlstown - Manchester Victoria - Huddersfeild - Bradford Intercange (Just to hack off Grand Central)
Earlstown - Liverpool L St
Preston - Blackpool
Preston - Lancaster - Barrow
Preston - Blackburn

1tp2h to each of some of these options?

Could proberbly make Euston - Bradford via Victoria and Rochdale in about 3hr20min

 

[WatcherZero]

Dont bet on a 4th Manchester-Euston, at least not via Stockport. TfGM and the local councils are opposing it because of the impact the 3rd had on local services.

 

[Nym]

Send it via Earlstown...? (If it where extended to BDI that would be happening anyway)

 

[tbtc]

Dont bet on a 4th Manchester-Euston, at least not via Stockport. TfGM and the local councils are opposing it because of the impact the 3rd had on local services.

Points in favour of a fourth London - Manchester service:

Four trains per hour would be easier to slot into some other "half hourly" services (e.g. the XC service from Manchester - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke - Stafford). It may allow more paths to be accommodated (compared to the 20/40 minute service). So suppose it becomes two/hour via Stoke (meaning four/hour fast trains from Manchester to Stoke when you add in the XC service) and two/hour via Crewe.

Whist it'd probably mean scrapping a "local" service over the Stockport viaduct, it'd carry a lot more people than a Pacer.

Passenger numbers seem to justify Virgin's increase to three/ hour (used to be one/hour when they took over)

At the moment the three services are

• Non-stop to Stoke
• Non-stop to Crewe
• First stop Milton Keynes, second stop Stoke

There's therefore only one station south of Stoke with a direct Manchester service (ignoring XC etc). You could use the introduction of a fourth service to trade-off frequency/time and add in one additional stop on each train. Say

• London - Milton Keynes - Stoke - Macclesfield - Stockport - Manchester
• London - Nuneaton - Crewe - Wilmslow - Stockport - Manchester
• London - Milton Keynes - Stoke - Macclesfield - Stockport - Manchester
• London - Rugby - Crewe - Wilmslow - Stockport - Manchester

...that then ensures that the benefits are shared around a bit more. Whilst there's obviously a bit London - Manchester market, I think any improvement to this service would have to come with the "strings" of improving intermediate journeys...

To get the extra path over the Stockport viaduct you could:

• Scrap the off-peak Manchester - Alderly Edge
• Scrap the Hazel Grove section of the Preston service
• Divert some of the Sheffield services via Marple

(all of which come at a cost, of course)

 

[The Planner]

A time trade off seems unlikely as journey time is king in most TOCs eyes, it would also need a complete re-write of the Piccadilly throat too, I fear the poor sod that would have to do that....

 

[OxtedL]

Send it via Earlstown...? (If it where extended to BDI that would be happening anyway)

This idea intrigues me. With all the projects on the go at the moment and more in the pipeline, it certainly sounds possible. Could you get this one service to go to Victoria (I know that Virgin/operator would be a little unhappy perhaps)?

You would want it to continue to somewhere else, particularly if you forced it through Piccadilly... If not Bradford, does Huddersfield have a big enough market? Perhaps somewhere else?

 

[tbtc]

This idea intrigues me. With all the projects on the go at the moment and more in the pipeline, it certainly sounds possible. Could you get this one service to go to Victoria (I know that Virgin/operator would be a little unhappy perhaps)?

You would want it to continue to somewhere else, particularly if you forced it through Piccadilly... If not Bradford, does Huddersfield have a big enough market? Perhaps somewhere else?

If there were space at 13/14 (which there clearly isn't!) you could consider an equivalent of the "Hambleton chord" that was going to work on the London - Leeds - London services.

Euston - Rugby - Crewe - Warrington - Piccadilly - Stockport - Macc - Stoke - Milton Keynes - Euston (half hourly each way round). You then don't need to stop the Glasgow services at Warrington etc, speeding them up.

(in fact, in fantasy-land you could stop them all at Eccles, giving Eccles four fast trains an hour to London therefore allowing BBC executives a fast escape from Salford Quays back to "civilisation" )

 

[Nym]

When there IS space on 13/14/15/16 it would be possible.

Manchester Picc 3tph is plenty at the minute, and I'd recon that having one through victoria to Huddersfeild and/or Bradford would come in handy.

Would be about 3hr10 from Bradford Interchange to Euston. 2hr50 Huddersfield - Euston.

If they could be pushed through Piccadilly to somwhere, how about Blackburn?

Of course these options rely on more 390s, and lengthened 221s that are electro-dieselified, up to 7 or 9 carrages.

Diesel - Electric - Diesel - Diesel - Diesel - Electric - Diesel for 7 carrages, making them up to 9 would need another generator carrage. to become

DEDDEDDED