Govia Thameslink Railway witness statement

[nationalisewiz]

Hi there,

I've read a few threads on here and would like some advice about my specific situation. Before you read any further, yes I'm a complete idiot, yes I've learnt my lesson, and no I won't be evading fares ever again.

Last week, I boarded a Thameslink train from Blackfriars to Biggleswade.
I bought a ticket from Blackfriars to City Thameslink before boarding. I've done this a total of four times for the same journey on my Thameslink account. I've short-fared others in the past but never been caught - it's not an excuse, but financially things are tough and train prices are extortionate.

There were no seats available on the train and I'm disabled, so I sat in a priority seat in first class, thinking this was always allowed on Thameslink trains (I've learnt since that it is not!)

I purchased a ticket from Blackfriars to Biggleswade around 20 minutes into the journey, then realised it wasn't a first class ticket. By this point I'd spotted the inspector and was worried I'd get fined for being in the wrong carriage, so hurriedly purchased another ticket with the wrong stations - first class from Kings Cross to Stevenage. He checked both and asked if I'd bought another ticket prior to departure, I said no. I was confused because I genuinely didn't know this was an offence at the time, and he didn't say it was either. He just issued me with a witness statement notice, and said since I'd paid the fare after departure, all GTR needed was for me to explain why. He didn't say anything about prosecution, so I thought (foolishly) that I'd avoided a fine. He didn't read me my rights (not sure if they're supposed to?)

We ended up having quite a pleasant conversation, but I was pretty checked out after a bad day at work and told him I'd boarded the train at St Pancras Intl, not Blackfriars - so that's what's on the receipt. This is my usual station, so a genuine mistake, not a lie (not that it matters, I'm sure).

I mentioned being disabled as the reason why I was in first class. He asked if I was registered disabled and I said no. He asked me if I'd intended to dodge the fare and I said no - which wasn't true. I didn't explain why I'd bought the tickets after departure, I just said I'd got confused.

The next day I boarded the same train without a ticket and was issued a Govia penalty fare notice, which I've paid. I have absolutely no excuse for doing that, other than I figured the inspectors were a one-off. It was completely idiotic and now I've realised court could be on the table, I will obviously not be doing it again.

In terms of history, I've had a fine in the past for not having my Railcard which I successfully appealed by sending proof, and an on-the-spot fine for using a child's ticket as an adult, but I've legally changed my name since then and I don't think it was Govia that issued them.

My questions for my witness statement are:

Should I mention the previous short-fare journeys on my account? I know they'll be able to see them.

Should I explain what happened i.e. admit my intention was to short-fare the journey, or just apologise, say I've learnt my lesson, and ask to settle out of court? How much detail about the incident is needed?

Will the PFN effect this case, even though it was issued afterwards?

Thanks so much in advance for your advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi there,

I've read a few threads on here and would like some advice about my specific situation. Before you read any further, yes I'm a complete idiot, yes I've learnt my lesson, and no I won't be evading fares ever again.

Last week, I boarded a Thameslink train from Blackfriars to Biggleswade.
I bought a ticket from Blackfriars to City Thameslink before boarding. I've done this a total of four times for the same journey on my Thameslink account. I've short-fared others in the past but never been caught - it's not an excuse, but financially things are tough and train prices are extortionate.

There were no seats available on the train and I'm disabled, so I sat in a priority seat in first class, thinking this was always allowed on Thameslink trains (I've learnt since that it is not!)

I purchased a ticket from Blackfriars to Biggleswade around 20 minutes into the journey, then realised it wasn't a first class ticket. By this point I'd spotted the inspector and was worried I'd get fined for being in the wrong carriage, so hurriedly purchased another ticket with the wrong stations - first class from Kings Cross to Stevenage. He checked both and asked if I'd bought another ticket prior to departure, I said no. I was confused because I genuinely didn't know this was an offence at the time, and he didn't say it was either. He just issued me with a witness statement notice, and said since I'd paid the fare after departure, all GTR needed was for me to explain why. He didn't say anything about prosecution, so I thought (foolishly) that I'd avoided a fine. He didn't read me my rights (not sure if they're supposed to?)

We ended up having quite a pleasant conversation, but I was pretty checked out after a bad day at work and told him I'd boarded the train at St Pancras Intl, not Blackfriars - so that's what's on the receipt. This is my usual station, so a genuine mistake, not a lie (not that it matters, I'm sure).

I mentioned being disabled as the reason why I was in first class. He asked if I was registered disabled and I said no. He asked me if I'd intended to dodge the fare and I said no - which wasn't true. I didn't explain why I'd bought the tickets after departure, I just said I'd got confused.

The next day I boarded the same train without a ticket and was issued a Govia penalty fare notice, which I've paid. I have absolutely no excuse for doing that, other than I figured the inspectors were a one-off. It was completely idiotic and now I've realised court could be on the table, I will obviously not be doing it again.

In terms of history, I've had a fine in the past for not having my Railcard which I successfully appealed by sending proof, and an on-the-spot fine for using a child's ticket as an adult, but I've legally changed my name since then and I don't think it was Govia that issued them.

My questions for my witness statement are:

Should I mention the previous short-fare journeys on my account? I know they'll be able to see them.

Should I explain what happened i.e. admit my intention was to short-fare the journey, or just apologise, say I've learnt my lesson, and ask to settle out of court? How much detail about the incident is needed?

Will the PFN effect this case, even though it was issued afterwards?

Thanks so much in advance for your advice.

Hi and welcome.

So to summarise you have:

-Short fared
-Bought ticket for journey only when inspector in sight
-sat in 1st class with a standard class ticket
-fare evaded again the day after being caught
-had previous occasions when Penalty Fares issued presumably because you had not held a valid ticket

Have they written to you yet?

When they do you will need advice from here on how best to reply. People will be happy to help so you can try and get the least worst option (ie avoiding being prosecuted in court) but you will see that from their point of view your actions look like deliberate and repetitive fare evasion.

 

[John R]

Can you post a copy here of whatever documentation you’ve been issued with, suitably anonymised (including any reference number) so we can see exactly what you’ve got.

GTR is normally very accommodating in offering out of court settlements, although being stopped for doing the same thing the following day may test their patience somewhat in terms of thinking that you had learnt your lesson having been caught.

 

[nationalisewiz]

Thanks for your replies. I received a letter from them on Tuesday. Any advice on drafting my response is welcome.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for your replies. I received a letter from them on Tuesday. Any advice on drafting my response is welcome.

Have you checked out the general guidance often posted on threads by @Hadders for the framework of a reply. Have a look for that and see what it says to give you a good idea.

 

[nationalisewiz]

Thank you. I tried to keep it brief, and vague. I wasn't sure whether to mention the penalty fare notice I received the next day or not - that's when I actually learnt my lesson and realised I needed to stop doing this. I also wasn't sure whether to go into detail about the tickets I did buy on the day in question, or to just admit I tried to evade the fare. My intention was to short-fare but I ended up buying the full ticket and another first class ticket on top of that. The inspector wasn't looking at me as a short-farer, just someone who didn't understand the rules about purchasing tickets prior to departure. He didn't see the short-fare ticket. Of course they'll likely look at my history and figure it out anyway, but I don't want to draw attention to myself as a short-farer if I don't need to. Let me know if you think more detail &/ honesty would work in my favour here though.

"On 30 July 2024, I travelled on the Thameslink service from London Blackfriars (5:37pm) to Biggleswade (6:31pm) without a valid ticket.

I am really sorry for trying to evade the fare. I regret being part of the problem your company has to spend such considerable resources and time addressing.

I feel very ashamed of myself and will not do it again. Since 1 August 2024 I have been purchasing the correct tickets, ahead of departure, and will continue to in future.

I would be very grateful if you would consider settling this matter out of court. I am more than happy to pay the outstanding sum plus any associated administrative costs.

Please accept my sincere apologies again."

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you. I tried to keep it brief, and vague. I wasn't sure whether to mention the penalty fare notice I received the next day or not - that's when I actually learnt my lesson and realised I needed to stop doing this. I also wasn't sure whether to go into detail about the tickets I did buy on the day in question, or to just admit I tried to evade the fare. My intention was to short-fare but I ended up buying the full ticket and another first class ticket on top of that. The inspector wasn't looking at me as a short-farer, just someone who didn't understand the rules about purchasing tickets prior to departure. He didn't see the short-fare ticket. Of course they'll likely look at my history and figure it out anyway, but I don't want to draw attention to myself as a short-farer if I don't need to. Let me know if you think more detail &/ honesty would work in my favour here though.

"On 30 July 2024, I travelled on the Thameslink service from London Blackfriars (5:37pm) to Biggleswade (6:31pm) without a valid ticket.

I am really sorry for trying to evade the fare. I regret being part of the problem your company has to spend such considerable resources and time addressing.

I feel very ashamed of myself and will not do it again. Since 1 August 2024 I have been purchasing the correct tickets, ahead of departure, and will continue to in future.

I would be very grateful if you would consider settling this matter out of court. I am more than happy to pay the outstanding sum plus any associated administrative costs.

Please accept my sincere apologies again."

I don't think anyone's come back on this - apologies if I'm treading on someone's toes.

Given that you don't want to mention what happened the next day, I think that this is fine. But you need to bear in mind that the railway may put their records together and realise that there was also an incident the next day - and they may notice that there's a gap between 30 July and 1 August and draw their own conclusions.

My personal feeling is that if you send this letter you have a 50%+ chance of the railway offering a chance to settle out of court. But my personal feeling could be wrong!

 

[nationalisewiz]

I don't think anyone's come back on this - apologies if I'm treading on someone's toes.

Given that you don't want to mention what happened the next day, I think that this is fine. But you need to bear in mind that the railway may put their records together and realise that there was also an incident the next day - and they may notice that there's a gap between 30 July and 1 August and draw their own conclusions.

My personal feeling is that if you send this letter you have a 50%+ chance of the railway offering a chance to settle out of court. But my personal feeling could be wrong!

Thank you. I posted my reply three and a half weeks ago and received a response yesterday. They agreed to settle out of court for £336. I feel hugely relieved. A very positive outcome, all things considered!

 

[Titfield]

Thank you for providing an update. Pleased to hear that you are relieved and that the outcome was positive, as you say, all things considered.