Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?

[Krokodil]

For cars there are full passport controls on all passengers. A few cars are randomly selected for cursory searches or explosive trace detection swabs.

So nothing like the airport-style luggage scanning endured by Eurostar passengers. Not that I've ever really had hold-ups at that stage.

 

[danshrimp]

Landolt + Brown wins contest for St Pancras International growth plans

Landolt + Brown Architects has won the competition to explore enlargement of St Pancras International station in central London

www.architectsjournal.co.uk

Landolt + Brown Architects has won the competition to explore enlargement of St Pancras International station in central London
The practice and urban design studio was chosen by rail infrastructure operator HS1 to lead on design elements of a study looking at expanded passenger capacity at the Grade I-listed terminus.
Design consultancy agency Active Thinking is also on the team appointed by HS1, following a competitive tender process.
Landolt + Brown will lead on the exploration of options for optimising existing infrastructure at St Pancras, for an anticipated growth in international rail passengers through the landmark William Henry Barlow-designed station.
The team will also consider how to unlock future growth and how such transformations can be achieved. A report is due this autumn on the findings.
It comes after Eurostar, which has been the sole international rail passenger operator at St Pancras since 2007, announced goals to increase annual passenger numbers by 11 million before 2030, from 19 million at present.
That is alongside an ambition to grow hourly passenger numbers from 1,800 passengers an hour to 2,700 passengers hourly by 2025. At the same time, several new potential operators plan to run rivals to Eurostar.
HS1 said in the competition brief that it must ‘safeguard for the potential of other new international operators entering the market and wishing to run services to and from St Pancras International. HS1 is agnostic about where international growth comes from but is keen to make plans and facilitate growth, wherever it may come from.’
It continued: ‘Pre-pandemic, HS1 had carried out various architectural studies looking at how international growth could be accommodated through a project known as SPICE (St Pancras International Capacity Enhancement). However, many of the assumptions of SPICE have changed and the proposals need to be reassessed considering the latest information, technological advancements and growth assumptions.’
Richard Thorp, engineering director at HS1, said in a statement: ‘[The study will] establish the best way to optimise capacity and the climate benefit of travelling by train whilst protecting the unique heritage of London’s historic Grade 1-listed building.’
St Pancras station serves the East Midlands and South East in addition to international rail services to France, Belgium and The Netherlands. Designed by William Henry Barlow in 1868, the Grade I-listed station underwent an £800 million refurbishment and redevelopment by Arup and Chapman Taylor Architects in 2007.
Chapman Taylor Architects was the last firm to look at enhancing capacity in 2019 in the wake of changes to travel post-Brexit.

 

[Bikeman78]

While I agree eurostar should be cheaper, run more frequently, and be more convenient, at the end of the day Eurostar doesn't get to decide whether they do a security check - the requirements for that are imposed by the relevant governments, just like the requirements for passport controls.
I'm sure if you gave eurostar the option of not doing security checks, they'd immediately stop doing them, given how much money and staff time they cost

Why the double standards though? It seems that cars are usually not checked thoroughly. For that matter, how is Eurostar any different to the London Underground? If anything, escape or evacuation would be easier in the channel tunnel.

 

[nwales58]

... Eurostar any different to the London Underground?

Nightmare scenario: LTS or a minister visits the Beijing metro and asks why we can't do it as they can.

Scanning is not the bottleneck in my recent experience, albeit only 1300-1500 departures. It's lounge lack of space. Back in Waterloo days trains loaded much earlier though loads were usually smaller too.

 

[signed]

Scanning is not the bottleneck in my recent experience

The bottleneck is exacerbated by the unwillingness to enforce the 45-60min rule by allowing people to come 2h early

 

[jon0844]

The bottleneck is exacerbated by the unwillingness to enforce the 45-60min rule by allowing people to come 2h early

They need to turn people away, and rather than just walk along the queues to filter out the people who came a day before their departure, put up signs.

Why queue 'airside' in cramped conditions when you have any number of places to wait around St Pancras (or even nearby outside). There's nothing that's going to make you late. Many food places charge up front when you order, while others will gladly let you settle the bill quickly so you can just leave when the time comes.

I always consider St Pancras itself to be my departure lounge, and then I go through as late as possible to board the train.

 

[signed]

Why queue 'airside' in cramped conditions when you have any number of places to wait around St Pancras (or even nearby outside).

Collective fear of missing the train if you show up too late (even if 45 min before)

 

[jon0844]

Collective fear of missing the train if you show up too late (even if 45 min before)

Hence why Eurostar can allay those fears with better communication. Getting through security is fast, albeit slowed down by people who don't slide their tray along after security to take items out, and decide to gather together all their stuff while everything else stops. But in the grand scheme of things, security is still a process that takes a matter of minutes and then you're through passports and done. I'd like to spend as little time as possible on the other side, and that even includes going Business Premier.

Even then I go in, grab a drink and a bite to eat and sit for as little time as possible. You can arrive at any time and be in there for hours if you so wish, but there's no real point. There are nicer places in the surrounds to go and work (see other threads).

Now in Paris, the business lounge is somewhat nicer because there it can take an age to get in. I can't speak for Brussels as I haven't been in over ten years.

 

[signed]

Now in Paris, the business lounge is somewhat nicer because there it can take an age to get in

The main lock up at Paris is not security, it's passport control. Security flows very well.

The number of both manned and automated booths is minuscule compared to the volume, especially on the French exit side (there are 3 for EU passport and same for Other Passports only). This is what makes the queing horrible there.

They don't seem to read passports half the time. When I went I had to retry slotting my (French) passport 3 or 4 times in both the French and UK machines to get it to recognize it. Half of the people using those gates had to be helped by the attendant or sent through manual control.

 

[jon0844]

I've never had a problem using the gates personally.

 

[Trainbike46]

The paths do exist, but another train may already be using them. For example there is a Eurostar from Marne-la-Vallee-Chessy (train 9937) using the path also used by Eurostar from London (series 91xx).

While there are a few occasions like the one you mention, most Paris-bound trains are in the other half an hour, so most of the paths are available.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

Why the double standards though? It seems that cars are usually not checked thoroughly. For that matter, how is Eurostar any different to the London Underground? If anything, escape or evacuation would be easier in the channel tunnel.

I agree it's not right, but the ire should be directed at government not the train operator

 

[Citybreak1]

Any update on the remodelling of the station?

 

[ainsworth74]

I've often thought that St Pancras could do with screens like you see at some airports where it will say "The current security queue time is on average X minutes". Eurostar could do with something similar "The current security and passport control queue time is x minutes on average". Seeing big signs that say its taking ten/fifteen minutes to get through security and passport control is likely to help encourage people to not turn up ludicrously early for their train!

 

[jon0844]

I've often thought that St Pancras could do with screens like you see at some airports where it will say "The current security queue time is on average X minutes". Eurostar could do with something similar "The current security and passport control queue time is x minutes on average". Seeing big signs that say its taking ten/fifteen minutes to get through security and passport control is likely to help encourage people to not turn up ludicrously early for their train!

That's a very good idea. Plus, while I haven't seen it this year, the media could inform people rather than reporting huge crowds, making people panic and rush to join the queues.

 

[Fiyero]

I think this is the longest running thread I have started! My next trip is on Sunday 1st September at 10:31, what time should I turn up?
Based on feedback I am thinking find somewhere else nearby for a nice breakfast then head over about 09:30?

 

[signed]

Based on feedback I am thinking find somewhere else nearby for a nice breakfast then head over about 09:30?

That sounds alright

 

[TFN]

I think this is the longest running thread I have started! My next trip is on Sunday 1st September at 10:31, what time should I turn up?
Based on feedback I am thinking find somewhere else nearby for a nice breakfast then head over about 09:30?

I personally would aim for 09:30 to 09:45 if I’ve got no companions and a backpack.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think this is the longest running thread I have started! My next trip is on Sunday 1st September at 10:31, what time should I turn up?
Based on feedback I am thinking find somewhere else nearby for a nice breakfast then head over about 09:30?

There's the new ( opened in June ) Breakfast Club café directly opposite the Eurostar at St Pancras, next door to Le Pain Quotidien. Somewhat pricey, but the quality of the food and the service is very good.

 

[ainsworth74]

I personally would aim for 09:30 to 09:45 if I’ve got no companions and a backpack.

Same, travelling either solo (or with companions who know their stuff) and with only a backpack I aim to be in the queue between 60 and 45 minutes before departure. Usually means I'm in the waiting pen for no more than twenty minutes or so.

There's the new ( opened in June ) Breakfast Club café directly opposite the Eurostar at St Pancras, next door to Le Pain Quotidien. Somewhat pricey, but the quality of the food and the service is very good.

I tend to just opt for Wetherspoons

 

[Fiyero]

Thanks for all the tips! 'Flying' Solo with a suitcase, Wetherspoons is always a good shout but will look at the suggestions as may be worth spending a bit more as I won't have time for lunch really.

 

[Krokodil]

I recommend the Sandwich Street Kitchen which is a five minute walk from St Pancras.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I recommend the Sandwich Street Kitchen which is a five minute walk from St Pancras.

Indeed - I'd forgotten about the place, though I cycle a block away from it all the time... I occasionally grabbed breakfast there years back after a night-shift near KX, and I remember it being good.

 

[sprunt]

There's the new ( opened in June ) Breakfast Club café directly opposite the Eurostar at St Pancras, next door to Le Pain Quotidien. Somewhat pricey, but the quality of the food and the service is very good.

Breakfast Club's the last place to go if you want to avoid having to get there early and stand in queues isn't it?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Breakfast Club's the last place to go if you want to avoid having to get there early and stand in queues isn't it?

When I went shortly after it opened I was straight in, sit down, attended to, ordered, got the food within 5 - 10 minutes.

This was at around 09.30 on a Monday morning.

 

[londonteacher]

Currently lines going down to Thameslink as two trains can enter the lounge at the moment. I used iProov and walked straight through with no wait.

 

[signed]

Schengen Entry/Exit System is now officially going to be implemented from November 10.

Is the EU’s Entry/Exit system still launching in November?

If the EES becomes operational in autumn, non-EU travellers entering the Schengen Area will have to go through new scanners at EU borders.

www.euronews.com

The EU's post-Brexit Entry/Exit System (EES) will launch on 10 November, EU Home Affairs Commissioner Ylva Johansson has confirmed.

“The moment is finally there. There may have been times you believed it will never happen,” Johansson said during a visit to the Tallinn-based eu-LISA, the EU agency in charge of the IT infrastructure behind the EES.

The first months are definitely going to be absolute chaos at STP, but after the initial bunch subsides it should streamline things.

ETIAS travel authorization scheme will start begining of 2025

 

[ainsworth74]

So this is the system that replaces stamps in passports yes?

 

[Krokodil]

The first months are definitely going to be absolute chaos at STP, but after the initial bunch subsides it should streamline things.

November is definitely a good time to do this

 

[signed]

So this is the system that replaces stamps in passports yes?

Yes

 

[mad_rich]

Am I right in thinking that the iProov/ Smart Check has nothing to do with the EES?

And that Smartcheck users will still have to join whatever nightmare queue exists for fingerprinting?