Is it worth appealing this? Used wrong rail card

[enzic]

I was travelling between Maidenhead and Burnham (bucks) on a one way off peak ticket, I was in a rush as I was about to miss the train, when selecting the rail card option I accidentally clicked on 16-17 railcard instead of the 16-25, my luck being so great, there was tfl workers at burnham checking all tickets, ended up being given a penalty fare.

Is this worth appealing? The difference in price between the 16-17 and the 16-25 ticket is literally 65p..

 

[Hadders]

You were fortunate to only be issued with a Penalty Fare. Many train companies would take your details for follow-up to see if your ticket purchasing history indicates that you've done this before.

There's nothing to stop you from appealing but ordinarily I wouldn't expect the appeal to succeed.

 

[enzic]

Thanks for the reply;

They took name and address, if i do appeal and the appeal gets rejected, will the TFL penalty fare come up on DBS or on a criminal record? This might be a stupid question but i genuinely have no idea about this stuff

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks for the reply;

They took name and address, if i do appeal and the appeal gets rejected, will the TFL penalty fare come up on DBS or on a criminal record? This might be a stupid question but i genuinely have no idea about this stuff

No. A penalty fare is not a criminal issue, so it won't appear on DBS. Whether you appeal or not will make no difference to this.

I would also endorse what @Hadders has told you: you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey so the railway were within their rights to issue a penalty fare. Unless there is some technical problem with how they issued the notice, you would not win on appeal - and realistically, even if there is a technical problem then it is only at the third and final stage of the appeal that you might win. My advice would be to pay the penalty fare, and in future be careful to select the right Railcard.

 

[enzic]

No. A penalty fare is not a criminal issue, so it won't appear on DBS. Whether you appeal or not will make no difference to this.

I would also endorse what @Hadders has told you: you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey so the railway were within their rights to issue a penalty fare. Unless there is some technical problem with how they issued the notice, you would not win on appeal - and realistically, even if there is a technical problem then it is only at the third and final stage of the appeal that you might win. My advice would be to pay the penalty fare, and in future be careful to select the right Railcard.

Thank you very much for the help,

in between my original post and your response I submitted an appeal; is there any way I can cancel it?

I told them how I made a mistake and was in a rush, the intention was not to save money as the savings was very minimal; and the machines at maidenhead were outdated, with me not being used to using them.

Just to clarify, if they reject the appeal, can they escalate the penalty to a persecution and hence affecting my record, or will it 100% just stay as a penalty fare of £50

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Just to clarify, if they reject the appeal, can they escalate the penalty to a persecution and hence affecting my record, or will it 100% just stay as a penalty fare of £50

No: once you have appealed the railway will not be able to prosecute you- there’s a rule to specifically stop that happening.

On the assumption that the appeal fails, you will have to pay the £50 plus fare promptly or else it goes up to £100. The clock for the penalty going up stops while the appeal is considered but starts again when you are sent the decision.

 

[enzic]

No: once you have appealed the railway will not be able to prosecute you- there’s a rule to specifically stop that happening.

On the assumption that the appeal fails, you will have to pay the £50 plus fare promptly or else it goes up to £100. The clock for the penalty going up stops while the appeal is considered but starts again when you are sent the decision.

Thank you so so much,

I read that if the person reading my appeal thought that I should be charged with a higher fine/criminal proceeding they can put that in and TFL could send me a letter about prosecution.

^^ So is this false?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so so much,

I read that if the person reading my appeal thought that I should be charged with a higher fine/criminal proceeding they can put that in and TFL could send me a letter about prosecution.

^^ So is this false?

That won’t happen in my view.

Also appeals are dealt with by an independent body which is another reason I doubt they would pass it back to the railway company for escalation to prosecution.

And there isn’t a higher fine option for them apart from prosecuting.

I’ve never seen a case of a penalty fare moving on to prosecution on this forum.

 

[enzic]

That won’t happen in my view.

Also appeals are dealt with by an independent body which is another reason I doubt they would pass it back to the railway company for escalation to prosecution.

And there isn’t a higher fine option for them apart from prosecuting.

I’ve never seen a case of a penalty fare moving on to prosecution on this forum.

thanks for the reply,

In the appeal I told them that I made a mistake and was in a rush, the intention was not to save money as the savings was very minimal (65p); and the machines at maidenhead were outdated, with me not being used to using them. I still had a ticket it jus wasn’t under the right railcard.

Is this kind of offence ever prosecuted?

 

[Hadders]

I read that if the person reading my appeal thought that I should be charged with a higher fine/criminal proceeding they can put that in and TFL could send me a letter about prosecution.

Where did you read this? Can you post a link to it in this thread?

It's incorrect. If you've been issued with a Penalty Fare TfL won't just withdraw it and prosecute you instead. It is possible that TfL might search your online ticket purchasing history to identify if you've done this before. If you buy your tickets from a ticket machine there won't be an online hostory to research. Also, while this could happen it is more likely to happen if you'd not been issued with a Penalty Fare but instead your details taken for investigation.

In the appeal I told them that I made a mistake and was in a rush, the intention was not to save money as the savings was very minimal (65p); and the machines at maidenhead were outdated, with me not being used to using them. I still had a ticket it jus wasn’t under the right railcard.

Is this kind of offence ever prosecuted?

I do find it strange that the only cases like this we ever see on here are people who've mistakenly selected a railcard that gives a bigger discount. No-one's ever told us they selected a railcard that have a smaller discount and is there any way they can get the difference refunded....

In some cases there train comoanies and TfL have been known to prosecute cases like this but try not to overthink this. Once your appeal is rejected, which is highly likely, just pay the Penalty Fare and that will be the end of the matter.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

I do find it strange that the only cases like this we ever see on here are people who've mistakenly selected a railcard that gives a bigger discount. No-one's ever told us they selected a railcard that have a smaller discount and is there any way they can get the difference refunded....

That may well be because the saving is much greater if a penalty fare is successfully appealed than the money gained through selecting the right railcard. Furthermore, psychologically people tend to perceive losses as more valuable than gains. Also, 16-17 is a much smaller part of the population than others, so there are unlikely to be so many of them accidentally selecting a less powerful railcard.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand…

 

[enzic]

Where did you read this? Can you post a link to it in this thread?

It's incorrect. If you've been issued with a Penalty Fare TfL won't just withdraw it and prosecute you instead. It is possible that TfL might search your online ticket purchasing history to identify if you've done this before. If you buy your tickets from a ticket machine there won't be an online hostory to research. Also, while this could happen it is more likely to happen if you'd not been issued with a Penalty Fare but instead your details taken for investigation.


I do find it strange that the only cases like this we ever see on here are people who've mistakenly selected a railcard that gives a bigger discount. No-one's ever told us they selected a railcard that have a smaller discount and is there any way they can get the difference refunded....

In some cases there train comoanies and TfL have been known to prosecute cases like this but try not to overthink this. Once your appeal is rejected, which is highly likely, just pay the Penalty Fare and that will be the end of the matter.

Thank you all for the help, I will go through my search history on my computer and try find the link in the morning and send it.

Is there any way for me to withdraw my appeal, I would prefer to just get this sorted and pay the £50 rn. Rather than wait 4+ weeks for them to reply with a rejection.

p.s: anyone know how long they usually take?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you all for the help, I will go through my search history on my computer and try find the link in the morning and send it.

Is there any way for me to withdraw my appeal, I would prefer to just get this sorted and pay the £50 rn. Rather than wait 4+ weeks for them to reply with a rejection.

Not sure about ability to withdraw but I think you could pay it now. In the unlikely event of your appeal being successful I believe you would get a refund.

Keep proof of your payment and keep that long term (ie a few years).

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you all for the help, I will go through my search history on my computer and try find the link in the morning and send it.

Is there any way for me to withdraw my appeal, I would prefer to just get this sorted and pay the £50 rn. Rather than wait 4+ weeks for them to reply with a rejection.

p.s: anyone know how long they usually take?

Why would you not appeal?

If you post the notice in this thread we can see it if has been issued correctly; there are sometimes procedural errors.

 

[WirralLine]

You have no reason to withdraw the appeal, it's likely to be rejected but appealing isn't likely to have any negative effects at all. If I remember rightly it also blocks the company from prosecuting over the irregularity this time around.

Claiming a discount higher than which you are entitled to is an offence (even for 65p) which more often than not is investigated and taken further often resulting in a prosecution (or the stress of convincing the company to settle out of court by paying them a much bigger sum) - so consider a penalty fare as a very lucky outcome.

It goes without saying you need to ensure you claim the correct discount going forward - next time could result in a much worse outcome.