Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[dk1]

I agree it would be extremely unusual (if not completely unheard of?) for a triple traction set to make it onto Stansted Express - however I don’t agree with your rationale. I don’t believe multiple 755s operate on the Norwich-Stansted route? These are four or three car maximum.

Yes no Norwich-Cambridge/Stansted services ever run with more than a single unit.

 

[720144]

I agree it would be extremely unusual (if not completely unheard of?) for a triple traction set to make it onto Stansted Express - however I don’t agree with your rationale. I don’t believe multiple 755s operate on the Norwich-Stansted route? These are four or three car maximum.

There was once a time probably like 3/4 months ago I remember seeing on rtt it was an 8 car running on Norwich stansaid which is so rare like not even is it gonna ever happen again like most of the platforms between Ely & Norwich aka Brandon can only accommodate up to 3/4 coaches. They could never do a triple 755 on the London stansaid it would be too pointless to do as already have plenty of 720s to run the extra & will end up in huge train shortage delays to regional lines as recently introduced there’s a Peterborough to harwich via Bury which leaves a few spare 755s available.

 

[transportphoto]

Yes no Norwich-Cambridge/Stansted services ever run with more than a single unit.

Glad I’m not going crazy!

There was once a time probably like 3/4 months ago I remember seeing on rtt it was an 8 car running on Norwich stansaid which is so rare like not even is it gonna ever happen again like most of the platforms between Ely & Norwich aka Brandon can only accommodate up to 3/4 coaches.

It may have shown on RTT, but it did not happen in reality.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

There was once a time probably like 3/4 months ago I remember seeing on rtt it was an 8 car running on Norwich stansaid which is so rare like not even is it gonna ever happen again like most of the platforms between Ely & Norwich aka Brandon can only accommodate up to 3/4 coaches. They could never do a triple 755 on the London stansaid it would be too pointless to do as already have plenty of 720s to run the extra & will end up in huge train shortage delays to regional lines as recently introduced there’s a Peterborough to harwich via Bury which leaves a few spare 755s available.

There are no Peterborough to Harwich trains. There's a once a day from Cambridge and then to Lowestoft in the evening and reverse in the morning though

 

[dk1]

There was once a time probably like 3/4 months ago I remember seeing on rtt it was an 8 car running on Norwich stansaid which is so rare like not even is it gonna ever happen again like most of the platforms between Ely & Norwich aka Brandon can only accommodate up to 3/4 coaches. They could never do a triple 755 on the London stansaid it would be too pointless to do as already have plenty of 720s to run the extra & will end up in huge train shortage delays to regional lines as recently introduced there’s a Peterborough to harwich via Bury which leaves a few spare 755s available.

Yes it was just an internal error. You won’t get multiple working on the regional routes.

 

[GEC465]

I agree it would be extremely unusual (if not completely unheard of?) for a triple traction set to make it onto Stansted Express - however I don’t agree with your rationale. I don’t believe multiple 755s operate on the Norwich-Stansted route? These are four or three car maximum.

Iirc the only time it's happened was on testing only. It would however make sense to have 1 set as it would make sense on occasion

 

[transportphoto]

It would however make sense to have 1 set as it would make sense on occasion

Can you just clarify what it is that you think would make sense on occasion? I’m slightly confused

 

[Bikeman78]

we have noted this before that the issue is that the GE services have barely been retimed at all despite introduction of faster trains. Many of the services could be tweaked by a few minutes to facilitate a faster path between Stratford and Colchester.

The 321s used to wait time a lot. It must be more common now with the 720s.

 

[Railperf]

The 321s used to wait time a lot. It must be more common now with the 720s.

Depends on driving style. Some drivers will sit longer in platforms, others prefer to dawdle along and dissipate the time. I've known @dk1 to run at no more than 90mph and still keep time where 100mph is the permitted speed.

 

[dk1]

Depends on driving style. Some drivers will sit longer in platforms, others prefer to dawdle along and dissipate the time. I've known @dk1 to run at no more than 90mph and still keep time where 100mph is the permitted speed.

Very true mate and saves chasing double/single yellows at various points of the journey. Many drivers also pay attention to what speed C-DAS advises them to do these days too.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes I think the big problem is getting the free track and not catching the stoppers up in front. As far as I can tell, without reducing line capacity there's very limited scope for improvement.

I do wonder if the looping at Beaulieu Park may slightly alleviate this issue.

 

[Railperf]

Very true mate and saves chasing double/single yellows at various points of the journey. Many drivers also pay attention to what speed C-DAS advises them to do these days too.

I remember the days when some of the Norwich services made a Shenfield stop, and it was calculated the optimum time for a 'fast' run from Colchester was if the Norwich was around 4 minutes late leaving Colchester so that it could run flat out and arrive alm ost RT at Shenfield. Any later and the ex-Braintree would be let in front at Witham scuppering a fast run and no guarantee it would be put into Shenfield P1 to help get by.
Even today, the xx;30 services get a clearer and faster time to Colchester if they have a late or extended stop at Stratford. Just under 35 mins is possible, but it all hinges on the Clacton ahead having a determined driver (especially when he is approaching end of shift or due a PNB at Colchester) so that the Norwich can get a clear run into Colchester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

I do wonder if the looping at Beaulieu Park may slightly alleviate this issue.

No, it will potentially add to the issues as more GE services will stop there adding time to their journeys. In theory all the GE services can be sped up, somewhat, but GA enjoying good punctuality figures with so much recovery time in the timetable and trains that can better the sectional running times.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

I remember the days when some of the Norwich services made a Shenfield stop, and it was calculated the optimum time for a 'fast' run from Colchester was if the Norwich was around 4 minutes late leaving Colchester so that it could run flat out and arrive alm ost RT at Shenfield. Any later and the ex-Braintree would be let in front at Witham scuppering a fast run and no guarantee it would be put into Shenfield P1 to help get by.

I noticed a few weeks ago that according to RTT, 2 late night services to London from Norwich still call at Shenfield, not sure if they stop in reality though.

 

[dk1]

I noticed a few weeks ago that according to RTT, 2 late night services to London from Norwich still call at Shenfield, not sure if they stop in reality though.

Yes they do call.

 

[Railperf]

Is the new track layout at Beaulieu Park complete or is there still a TSR through there on a temporary layout?

 

[dk1]

Is the new track layout at Beaulieu Park complete or is there still a TSR through there on a temporary layout?

Complete but the UM is still blocked for platform construction. All up trains use the 50mph middle line.

 

[720144]

Yes it was just an internal error. You won’t get multiple working on the regional routes.

Yes another complete glitch as like you would see 2 745s couples up on rtt as a 24 car or a 15 car triple 720 there’s obviously been a switchover but the data didn’t process properly. It’s a shame c2c has the latest issue on know your train for the past 4 days not showing the correct coach formation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

I noticed a few weeks ago that according to RTT, 2 late night services to London from Norwich still call at Shenfield, not sure if they stop in reality though.

And the 06:25 calls at Witham

 

[RailWonderer]

we have noted this before that the issue is that the GE services have barely been retimed at all despite introduction of faster trains. Many of the services could be tweaked by a few minutes to facilitate a faster path between Stratford and Colchester. IIRC a retiming was planned to take place alongside the ECML timetable recast. And we all know what happened to that.

@Bald Rick said a while back on another thread it isn't the done thing to do ECML and WA at the same time, the latter of which is dependant on the ECML recast.

 

[Railperf]

WA interfaces with TL and GN at Cambridge, so any changes at Shepreth Junction have to be adapted to by WA. But i'm not sure why GEML cannot be tweaked regardless.
Anyway - interesting point @dk1 made about C-DAS. is this a new development? We know DAS has not been most favourably received by drivers. So is C-DAS rolled out across ANglia now? Or just the GEML.? And are drivers 'ordered' to use it? How are Anglia drivers responding to it?

 

[Halish Railway]

WA interfaces with TL and GN at Cambridge, so any changes at Shepreth Junction have to be adapted to by WA. But i'm not sure why GEML cannot be tweaked regardless.

It’d be to do with the pathing of trains originating at or passing through Peterborough and the interface of these trains with Kings Lynn to London trains at Ely. Ultimately the pathing of such trains out of these areas is restricted by single track sections between Ely and Bury St Edmunds and the Swing bridge to the south of Norwich, with London to Norwich trains having to fit around such services.

 

[87015]

WA interfaces with TL and GN at Cambridge, so any changes at Shepreth Junction have to be adapted to by WA. But i'm not sure why GEML cannot be tweaked regardless.
Anyway - interesting point @dk1 made about C-DAS. is this a new development? We know DAS has not been most favourably received by drivers. So is C-DAS rolled out across ANglia now? Or just the GEML.? And are drivers 'ordered' to use it? How are Anglia drivers responding to it?

GE was recast (as such as it was wanted by GA) in June 2024 TT.

 

[dk1]

WA interfaces with TL and GN at Cambridge, so any changes at Shepreth Junction have to be adapted to by WA. But i'm not sure why GEML cannot be tweaked regardless.
Anyway - interesting point @dk1 made about C-DAS. is this a new development? We know DAS has not been most favourably received by drivers. So is C-DAS rolled out across ANglia now? Or just the GEML.? And are drivers 'ordered' to use it? How are Anglia drivers responding to it?

No instructions to use it. It’s only there as a guide which myself and many others ignore. The clock however is handy.

 

[720144]

It’d be to do with the pathing of trains originating at or passing through Peterborough and the interface of these trains with Kings Lynn to London trains at Ely. Ultimately the pathing of such trains out of these areas is restricted by single track sections between Ely and Bury St Edmunds and the Swing bridge to the south of Norwich, with London to Norwich trains having to fit around such services.

The 720s have got their own pathing set to their own since June. Yeah I’ve only noticed not long ago it’s all 1 single track section crossing the river bridge not long after Victoria sidings having to fit around with London ic & stansaid via thetford trains to share. If a train is late running, huge congestion can occur. It would make more sense to upgrade the swing bridge with a 2nd track for less blockage & so 2 trains each way can pass the same time fit in an extra service. it would help out with ecs moves to Victoria sidings while incoming London arrivals.

 

[dk1]

The 720s have got their own pathing set to their own since June. Yeah I’ve only noticed not long ago it’s all 1 single track section crossing the river bridge not long after Victoria sidings having to fit around with London ic & stansaid via thetford trains to share. If a train is late running, huge congestion can occur. It would make more sense to upgrade the swing bridge with a 2nd track for less blockage & so 2 trains each way can pass the same time fit in an extra service. it would help out with ecs moves to Victoria sidings while incoming London arrivals.

It causes very little congestion. Line speed across it and lines around it (except the Trowse loop) are 40mph. Trains are clear in less than 1 minute.

Tentetive plans are for a fixed two track railway (Trowse bridge no longer swings) and possibly a road into the old Colmans site where 100s of new homes are planned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

NVS sidings moves are not very frequent and cause little to no disruption to London services.

 

[GEC465]

Can you just clarify what it is that you think would make sense on occasion? I’m slightly confused

Where absolutely no spare stock is available.

 

[Bald Rick]

@Bald Rick said a while back on another thread it isn't the done thing to do ECML and WA at the same time, the latter of which is dependant on the ECML recast.

The ECMl and WA have to be done together. Its the WA and GE that are not done together.

 

[Bikeman78]

Depends on driving style. Some drivers will sit longer in platforms, others prefer to dawdle along and dissipate the time. I've known @dk1 to run at no more than 90mph and still keep time where 100mph is the permitted speed.

My point is that the stopping schedules could be speeded up. If the stoppers get to Witham or Colchester faster, then the Norwich trains could speed up slightly too.

 

[800301]

My point is that the stopping schedules could be speeded up. If the stoppers get to Witham or Colchester faster, then the Norwich trains could speed up slightly too.

Freight can’t be speeded up and the punctuality figures would drop and you could ask people that use it everyday and I’m sure 95% of them would rather the train be on time than slightly quicker

 

[Haywain]

My point is that the stopping schedules could be speeded up.

The net result of which may be more delays as there's no slack left in the timetable. Having slack means that minor problems don't result in lost time.

 

[87015]

Freight can’t be speeded up and the punctuality figures would drop and you could ask people that use it everyday and I’m sure 95% of them would rather the train be on time than slightly quicker

Is freight the slowest traffic though, certainly doesn't look like it given the pathing time in its schedules - its the GA slower services that are even slower than under the NXEA recast which was already slack for 321s that are rightly being called out as overly padded by GA.