London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[ainsworth74]

There were no changes to the Cafe Bar menu other than the removal of the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry.

Thanks for the information

 

[silentone]

Day 4 etc...

An innovation! The stick-on 'red dot' which get applied to your place-mat if you've ordered the hot food. Maybe this is crew specific idea, but was being used on my service out of KGX this evening. Do they do it to prevent 'double-dipping'?

In other news, the sandwiches were down to two only and this crew asked for destination before offering these. I didn't take any chances

Crews are working their own way around the system, we're meant to use little stickers on your reservation label or the seat handle/grip. Some crews did ask about putting it on placements. To be honest it depends on what type of traveller you have on, so far most of 'my lot' are travelling over the 70 minutes. The sticker is merely there to identify if you're having a meal and the different colours indicate what meal you're having. I've just been working with Seat Numbers rather than all this silly coloured sticker nonsense.

The suppliers seem to be slightly ill-prepared and I know one depot ran out of all food today, both complimentary and saleable items - which is most likely a knock-on effect of the ash cloud. Crews may have been warned that once it was gone that's it's gone!

I'm beginning to feel their quest to increase numbers in First Class has succeeded already, every train I've been on now has a far greater ratio of 1st passengers than Standard.

I think over the coming days crews will start asking where your travelling to. Now they've got a grasp of the service delivery they're working around getting it done correctly. I have started getting requests for things and not to open them, they were soon told the way of it. I also had some rather sneaky folk who told a member of my staff they had requested the meal, yet somehow the printout I had of all those who did ask for a meal did not contain any of those mysterious requests and nor where they in the EPOS machine!

 

[Blindtraveler]

haha sneeky beggers! Glad its all going well and thanks to you for posting and updating us all, great to have all this.

 

[els]

I travelled first class, East Coast yesterday. Have to say i was very impressed by the amount of free stuff available. HOWEVER, sandwiches and fruit were offered on three occasions and the implication most got from this was there was no hot option available. Only when someone had the guts to ask about it did it become apparent it was available all along. I'm not impressed that EC are bleating on about their complimentary hot food deal in the press etc. yet keeping it on the low like this in practice.

 

[amcluesent]

Right, apologies in advance for ranting...

Have to say EC fell at the last hurdle today. I'd got a pre-16:30 out of KGX in the hope of trying the afternoon tea selection.

When the trolley eventually arrived (and I mean eventually) it was the all day selection.

OK, that's the luck of the draw.

However, the trolley wasn't even through L when we were into PBO and this was an HST, so that's just over a carriage done in 45 mins. Not surprisingly, at the 30+ minutes point peeps were walking up from M to get water bottles to slake their thirst.

The crew hadn't much of an idea about service and the person on the drink trolley was so excruciatingly slow it made you itch to shout out "FFS, just HURRY UP!".

And relax...

 

[Failed Unit]

Sounds like my expeience on the 1500. So the 1630 was a hst. It is booked for a mk4 so I wonder if the mk4 is now on the 1700, where first class demand is very high.

What services have afternoon tea? The 1500 didn't either.

 

[caliwag]

Bugger all that messing around and "when is the bloody trolley coming?", I'll just take a bottle of wine and a picnic now. It is always going to depend on the crews, and supplies anyway!
I have enjoyed fantastic food and service...delivered, lest we forget, in BR InterCity days, and seriously expanded by Mr Sherwood...how sad Seacontainers went down the pan!! One of the best steaks I've had, to say nothing of the best sea bass I've had, have been care of the restaurant car...and that brilliant Lebanese wine (Mussar?).

I will not now join the train, in anticipation, but resignation, so hence, take your own picnic! Sorry Elaine, you've got it wrong!

 

[StrollerEd]

I believe EastCoast have a relatively short time in which to act to change the new arrangements for catering for passengers with first class tickets. I write having been one of many unhappy passengers on the Edinburgh to
London eastcoast liine on the 17.00 on 26th May.

The premium for a first class ticket is paid for the prospect of additional quiet and comfort - now that staff go up and down the aisle with food is adding severe disruption that is making me, and several of the nearby passengers whom I heard made remarks, think agah about the alternatives.

In the previous regime, those who really wanted to eat a good hot meal
went to the resturant car and were willing to pay extra. It was a positive in favour of long distance travel when compared with alternatives such as the scheduled airlines - the price differential between air and first class train not amounting to much for business travellers. Those who did not do this had the quiet they sought and could work or relax in peace. The option of free snacks was good and unobstrusive as was the delivery of the paid for food delivered.

The atmosphere has now changed with the 'free entitlement' culture of
the food delivered by staff who have to hurry the length of the first
class compartments - invariably running out of the range options and
causing disappointment. For example, on the train I was on, there was
no hot food for many passengers, myself included, from York onwards.

And I suppose I should add that the reason I did not request hot food
befrorehand was that I could not get a seat - I and a number of others
had to stand before passengers to York dismebarked.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

@StrollerEd

Thanks for posting such a frank account. Of course, as a paying passenger, you should make your views known to the Company.
As a frequent EC passenger I tend to agree with your observations and experiences.
I am slightly torn, though, between sympathy (first week, unexpected Icelandic factor, high winds etc.) and criticism (plenty time to plan, suppliers should supply, customer preferences are crucial whatever the inconvenience).

Please write to the Company. They pride themselves on 'listening to the customer'. Some of us on here believe that their 'listening' was applied only to passengers' responses to leading questions, and I have had it explained with no doubt that the changes were entirely driven by financial considerations (and not by passenger feedback). The Company's senior staff, some Directors and MD were on the high profile inaugural services, so they'll all know what you're writing about in intimate detail (EC is quite different from some train companies in that they only operate a very narrow band of trains/ routes/ destinations).
Their previous catering operation on the route (which I loved) did lose money, but there were other solutions, and the present one is not to my liking any more than yours. I wished some of the alternatives had been adopted.

Can I take the opportunity to make an important distinction between the catering staff (many of whom have a thorough grounding in catering and customer service to a high and qualified standard) and the Company who is their employer?
The teams are great. The Company is the subject of criticism.

We've probably lost the battle to save the Restaurant Car, but the differential in experience between a full price First Class journey and a Standard Class equivalent (ignoring short-term and promotional offers), does not appear to be translating well to the differential in cost.

Thanks for joining us here.
Maybe some feedback will lead to a review, though I suspect that only profit and loss is under consideration.
Perhaps, like a Pivate Eye subscriber, you will ask to have your subscription cancelled in disgust?

 

[premier01]

Bugger all that messing around and "when is the bloody trolley coming?", I'll just take a bottle of wine and a picnic now. It is always going to depend on the crews, and supplies anyway!
I have enjoyed fantastic food and service...delivered, lest we forget, in BR InterCity days, and seriously expanded by Mr Sherwood...how sad Seacontainers went down the pan!! One of the best steaks I've had, to say nothing of the best sea bass I've had, have been care of the restaurant car...and that brilliant Lebanese wine (Mussar?).

I will not now join the train, in anticipation, but resignation, so hence, take your own picnic! Sorry Elaine, you've got it wrong!

What was the BR 1st class offering on East Coast then-any complimentary food or just tea and coffee-sure Inter City West Coast offered breakfast and evening meals


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

@StrollerEd

Thanks for posting such a frank account. Of course, as a paying passenger, you should make your views known to the Company.
As a frequent EC passenger I tend to agree with your observations and experiences.
I am sligltly torn, though, between sympathy (first week, unexpected Icelandic factor, high winds etc.) and criticism (plenty time to plan, suppliers should supply, cusomer preferences are crucial whatever the inconvenience).

Please write to the Company. They pride themselves on 'listening to the customer'. Some of us on here believe that their 'listening' was applied only to passengers' responses to leading questions, and I have had it explained with no doubt that the changes were entirely driven by financial considerations (and not by passenger feedback). The Comapny's senior staff, some Directors and MD were on the high profile inaugural services, so they'll all know what your writing about in intimate detail (EC is quite different from some train companies in that they only operate a very narrow band of trains/ routes/ destinations).
Their previous catering operation on the route (which I loved) did lose money, but there were other solutions, and the present one is not to my liking any more than yours.

Can I take the opportunity to make an imprtant distinction between the catering staff (many of whom have a thorough grounding in catering and customer service to a hingh and qualified standard) and the Company who is their employer.
The teams are great. The Company is the subject of my criticism.

We've probably lost the battle to save the Restaurant Car, but the differential in experience between a full price First Class journey and a Standard Class equivalent (ignoring short-term and promotional offers), does not appear to be translating well to the differential in cost.

Thanks for joining us here.

Is there a restaurant on some of the First Great Western services or is it just not the same as what was on East Coast services.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Is there a restaurant on some of the First Great Western services or is it just not the same as what was on East Coast services.

Yes. There are. Four service each weekday.

(But jeez, did you have to quote my entire post? Much of it didn't relate to your question, and I hadn't finished checking its spelling and grammar!)

 

[ainsworth74]

Is there a restaurant on some of the First Great Western services or is it just not the same as what was on East Coast services.

Two from Plymouth in the afternoon and two from Paddington (back to Plymouth) in the evening. So called Pullman dining, you can find more info here. There are also some services which include a traveling chef which is a similar offering to the former EC at-seat dining but not all that many services have it and the menu choice seems less. You can find details here. The rest offer a pretty much nothing other than a hot bacon baguette.

 

[premier01]

Yes. There are. Four service each weekday.

(But jeez, did you have to quote my entire post? Much of it didn't relate to your question, and I hadn't finished checking its spelling and grammar!)

Yes-unless u can advise how to quote part of a reply on a mobile device or more importantly why u can't access the full website on mobile devices-yes the mobile version is useful but there are times when u want to access things like the search function-and no spend enough time on laptops and computers to do that outside of work

 

[StrollerEd]

@DaveNewcastle

Thanks for the welcome and for the supportive comments.

I had written to EC Customer Service, as much to alert as to complain. Indeed I took the opportunity to phone them as well.

The new arrangement is a big mistake, not just a cost-cutting measure: it will lose them custom and hence permium revenue.

The 'free' meal on the plane or the 'free' meal on the train is never free and rarely sumptuous. For a long distance traveller (and London to Edinburgh must count as that - maybe anything over 2 hours) food is important, whether bought in from M&S or bought on the train.

For the premium 'first class' customers access to food in long distance travel is part of the 'comfort' package. But is only a part. If the 'free entitlement' means that all request it as 'getting most bang for the buck' and that means staff rushing about wih a plate of hot food in each hand (an accident surely waiting to happen) and having to talk incessantly whether to take/deliver orders, deal with complaints or just talk among themselves, the 'comfort factor' is lost much more generally.

Yes, I dont blame the staff - they were fatigued but polite. Both staff and passengers alike were polite, deliberately so for fear of causing upset to the other.

I really do have the option of the plane, at not dissimilar coat and would arrive at end destination a little quicker. I would like to continue to take the train but if the new arrangements do not change for the better I may just not do that anymore. The airport lounge would seem a haven of quiet in comparison.

Those of us who used the restaurant liked that option; and it took the hungry away from those who wanted quiet. It was a good formula that should be re-considered urgently. Whatever the problems with that, the new arrangements are not a viable solution and prompt remedy should happen soon to avoid loss of customer satisfaction and their switch away to the alternatives.

 

[williamn]

Re the stated losses on previous catering offer - I find the claims of £20m losses disingenuous. It's impossible to separate the catering out in this way because of the way it impacts on why people take the train. The restaurant may have lost money on its own, but how many people were swayed to take the train and perhaps a 1st class ticket because of it?

Clearly the new service will 'lose' more money than the old one, but its not being thought of in that way.

I think the new service will work for EC, the main drawback I can see is that at certain times of day it wont be possible to get a good quality hot meal, and that if say, I want a bottle of wine, I have to go get it myself, rather than be served at seat.

 

[richa2002]

You've also got to think that the £20 million loss figure will most probably take account of the unsold seats in the restaurant car so no doubt they've multiplied the amount of restaurant car seats by the maximum First Anytime fare on all the previous restaurant services.

 

[williamn]

Indeed. I remember stats about what tiny percentage of the train used the restaurant - ignoring the fact that even if full (which it often was) it will still only be a few % max!

 

[Failed Unit]

Indeed. I remember stats about what tiny percentage of the train used the restaurant - ignoring the fact that even if full (which it often was) it will still only be a few % max!

Not that hard to believe really. 32 people to use the restuarants per train as that is all they could cater for. 7 trains per direction with them. Taking that alone from a 400+ seat train makes a low percentage. The you have the vast majority of east coasts passengers by volume make journeys under 1 hour who would never use it {or want to} you can see how that figure is arrived at. Yes the 1700 and 1800 ex King Cross had full restaurant cars, but they also had 2x first class coaches that we also 100% full.

 

[silentone]

The losses made are far more complex from any normal catering operation. One of my the many mysteries of the railway.

 

[StrollerEd]

Not that hard to believe really. 32 people to use the restuarants per train as that is all they could cater for. 7 trains per direction with them. Taking that alone from a 400+ seat train makes a low percentage. The you have the vast majority of east coasts passengers by volume make journeys under 1 hour who would never use it {or want to} you can see how that figure is arrived at. Yes the 1700 and 1800 ex King Cross had full restaurant cars, but they also had 2x first class coaches that we also 100% full.

surely the purpose of the restuarant car is to allow the long distance traveller to enjoy a quality of meal not available on a plane and leave the rest of first class paying customers in peace and quiet.

if there is neither quiet nor good quality food available for this long distance traveller then the big wadge of money will go elsewhere.

 

[Failed Unit]

surely the purpose of the restuarant car is to allow the long distance traveller to enjoy a quality of meal not available on a plane and leave the rest of first class paying customers in peace and quiet.

if there is neither quiet nor good quality food available for this long distance traveller then the big wadge of money will go elsewhere.

I totally agree, my letter to East Coast will go out next week, I am due another trip on them next week.

To me the restuarant was a good use of my time compared to flying, I need to eat so if I do it while I am travelling to Scotland that is a good thing. If I can't get food on the train I will need eat before hand - so I might as well fly and get the quicker journey.

My experiences are the the breakfast serving, which was OK the quality not as good as the previous at seat offering. Going north was a shambles, 1h23 minutes to serve sandwiches! No hot meals offered and no idea that they were. So to me the offering is a downgrade and considering a 3 course meal was included in the price of my ticket before, I could also argue that I am getting less for my money!

I will see what the 1700 ex KX brings, if I can get a seat at all! My northbound services are worse on both respects, no restuarants and slower, but that is a rant to both East Coast and Transport Scotland.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The losses made are far more complex from any normal catering operation. One of my the many mysteries of the railway.

I believe that the 'costs' include a proportion of the access charges for the rail network, a notional access charge for the TOC's rolling stock (the restaurant and kitchen), access charges incurred by RG at their stations and warehouusing and crew space in those stations (all added to their costs and therefore charged on to the TOC) and of course the catering staff (incl time spend travelling pass.) and quite low down the list, the stock.

The second of these (charge for rolling stock) is, of course, a sleight of hand, as the coaching stock is either used to convey passengers who do not eat in the restaurant or to convey passengers who DO eat in the restaurant. i.e. the cost is independent of the operation. Its the same passengers, and same revenue, but their seats are only charged as a 'cost' if they eat in the restaurant and not if they eat 'at-seat'.

As for the other costs, they are all borne by the TOC whether they run a restaurant or not. The only difference is that if there IS a restaurant, then all these costs quickly fall into the 'restaurant' cost-centre and if there is not a restaurant, then they fall into general service operating costs.

Accountancy is one the UK's most lucrative Creative Industries. That shouldn't come as a surprise - the UK's biggest earner is the financial sector. The second are the Creative Industries.
Its very tempting to conclude that all financial reports are world-class fiction.

 

[premier01]

I totally agree, my letter to East Coast will go out next week, I am due another trip on them next week.

To me the restuarant was a good use of my time compared to flying, I need to eat so if I do it while I am travelling to Scotland that is a good thing. If I can't get food on the train I will need eat before hand - so I might as well fly and get the quicker journey.

My experiences are the the breakfast serving, which was OK the quality not as good as the previous at seat offering. Going north was a shambles, 1h23 minutes to serve sandwiches! No hot meals offered and no idea that they were. So to me the offering is a downgrade and considering a 3 course meal was included in the price of my ticket before, I could also argue that I am getting less for my money!

I will see what the 1700 ex KX brings, if I can get a seat at all! My northbound services are worse on both respects, no restuarants and slower, but that is a rant to both East Coast and Transport Scotland.

A 3 course meal was included in the ticket price? I thought that only tea, coffee, orange juice, water, cake, biscuits and crisps were include in the ticket price and at least £14 to use restaurant.

 

[ainsworth74]

A 3 course meal was included in the ticket price? I thought that only tea, coffee, orange juice, water, cake, biscuits and crisps were include in the ticket price and at least £14 to use restaurant.

I suspect that Failed Unit is referring to the Scottish Executive ticket which if I recall correctly cost £199 for a Edinburgh - London return and for that included meals (both ways I think), parking and travel in Z1/2 for the underground but the best bit about it was that it could be claimed on expenses as a standard class ticket but actually gave the user a free upgrade to first class.

 

[premier01]

I suspect that Failed Unit is referring to the Scottish Executive ticket which if I recall correctly cost £199 for a Edinburgh - London return and for that included meals (both ways I think), parking and travel in Z1/2 for the underground but the best bit about it was that it could be claimed on expenses as a standard class ticket but actually gave the user a free upgrade to first class.

Yes a bit like a VT business ticket but with better food options-would it have been cheaper than a SOR then?-some companies look at just cost, some class and others both-a few allow 1st at any time but guess there are less of those around at this time.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes a bit like a VT business ticket but with better food options-would it have been cheaper than a SOR then?-some companies look at just cost, some class and others both-a few allow 1st at any time but guess there are less of those around at this time.

According to NFM 09 the SOR is £292 whilst the FOR £390 so it was a very good value ticket (doesn't exist anymore I don't think however) it would be interesting to find out how many EC actually sold on their services. There was a bit of promotion (I saw the odd poster on station platforms) but it never seemed to be heavily marketed.

 

[dcd]

However, the trolley wasn't even through L when we were into PBO and this was an HST, so that's just over a carriage done in 45 mins. Not surprisingly, at the 30+ minutes point peeps were walking up from M to get water bottles to slake their thirst.

Out of interest which carriage gets served first!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Has the Scottish Executive offer gone now?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm pretty sure it has I can't find any mention of it on their site anymore so I'm guessing that it's no longer offered.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Shame, it did look like quite a good offer, I'd have thought It'd help fill First Class from further north and brought in a bit of extra money... Can underatand it being scrapped though, maybe now it's time for Virgin to take it up?