Buffer Stop Collision near Brighton (Lovers Walk Depot)

[MrJeeves]

Looks like something has gone badly wrong this morning around Lovers Walk Depot.

The down road into Brighton is blocked to electric traction, and GTR are suggesting everything is basically stuck at Brighton or in the depot.

A few trains are starting short at Preston Park for northbound services but this "not going to be a regular thing today".

⛔ NO trains can run between Brighton and Preston Park until further notice.

This is affecting trains on the route from Brighton to Cambridge and Bedford, in both directions.

⏰ If you use these routes, please allow and extra 30 mins to complete your journey this morning.

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twitter.com

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Derailment

 

[MrJeeves]

Derailment

Not quite as catastrophic as I had initially imagined, but definitely not good!

 

[ThameslinkUser]

No, but there's a distinct lack of information about what is going on. Staff across the network don't know if it is a power supply failure, an operational incident, or a problem in the depot. Of course, this is not to mention the actual service patterns. My down train is terminating at HHE according to the driver, but is showing on the live departures as PRP.

 

[MrJeeves]

I think my town is relatively lucky because we're continuing to get the Ore/Eastbourne and Littlehampton services. I managed to get a short-starter from Preston Park to head into London this morning, thankfully, else all my plans for the day would have been ruined.

I think they are trying to terminate them at PRP until Metrobus/Compass Bus properly starts up for the morning to pick up the disrupted passengers.

I have no idea what is going through control's head telling people to get the bus from Haywards Heath all the way to Brighton... Like hell is there enough buses to manage the demand that services to Brighton have.
I suppose they don't wish to fully crowd out the Littlehampton trains with everyone alighting at Preston Park or Hove, though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

Ah, looks like they have thought of that now, too.

Your ticket will now be accepted on Brighton & Hove Buses between Brighton and Hove Stations.

With this, you can also travel to Hove via Southern train from Haywards Heath and use this, to complete your journey, both ways.

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[ThameslinkUser]

I have no idea what is going through control's head

That is standard for GTR during disruption.

 

[dk1]

Just says disruption until 09:00 so not too bad.

 

[MrJeeves]

Just says disruption until 09:00 so not too bad.

It's usually quite overoptimistic. I've never seen disruption end before the time advertised.

 

[uglymonkey]

1 Cambridge - Brighton cancelled at the moment, the others showing as running - this may be the usual crew shortage and not be related anyway. So "fingers" crossed so far.

 

[D7666]

It's usually quite overoptimistic. I've never seen disruption end before the time advertised.

it says 1500 on Thameslink and NRE and has said that for some time

 

[dk1]

It's usually quite overoptimistic. I've never seen disruption end before the time advertised.

Oh I have many times, often earlier on occasions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

Although this has now changed to 15:00 here.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Already updated to 1500 which I should imagine still is unachievable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2024 ==

1 Cambridge - Brighton cancelled at the moment, the others showing as running - this may be the usual crew shortage and not be related anyway. So "fingers" crossed so far.

That’s bold thinking

 

[D7666]

It's usually quite overoptimistic. I've never seen disruption end before the time advertised.

no more over optimistic than the overt pessimism of this thread so far

 

[ThameslinkUser]

pessimism

realism*

 

[MrJeeves]

no more over optimistic than the overt pessimism of this thread so far

Accurate predictions from regular users, unfortunately!

 

[RailwayRookie]

1 Cambridge - Brighton cancelled at the moment, the others showing as running - this may be the usual crew shortage and not be related anyway. So "fingers" crossed so far.

Cancellations on:

Brighton to Cambridge
9S00 - 0738
9S02 - 0811
9S04 - 0841
9S06 - 0911

Cambridge to Brighton
9S13 - 1018
9S15 - 1048
9S17 - 1118
9S19 - 1148

 

[Intercity_225]

5W13 is currently on the move out of Brighton, presumably an empty stock of Gatwick Express 387s to Haywards Heath (to form 1W13). How come an empty stock can go past the area but passenger trains can't?

Edit: Just as I say that 9S03 (05:23 Cambridge - Brighton) arrives into Brighton, 3 minutes late.

 

[dk1]

How come an empty stock can go past the area but passenger trains can't?

Not sure of the track layout here but are the ECS workings using a non-passenger line?

 

[Intercity_225]

Not sure of the track layout here but are the ECS workings using a non-passenger line?

Nope, they're using the same track as the passenger services are meant to be using.

Edit: NRE have updated their page to say that Thameslink services can run into Brighton, just with delays. Gatwick Express still cut short at Gatwick Airport/Haywards Heath.
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/preston-park-20240801/

 

[greenline712]

My goodness . . . you lot are harsh!! Just because there is social media doesn't mean that the human brain can respond that quickly!!

Just in respect of ticket availability on buses . . . GTR would need to contact Brighton Buses and request acceptance . . . this might be given quickly, but then the message has to get out to drivers on the road; no point advertising acceptance if the driver doesn't know, and refuses. All this takes time . . . the bus company controller may not start work until 0600!!

Expecting service patterns to be changed at a moment's notice is unrealistic . . . is a Thameslink 12-coach train allowed to terminate at Hove? If it does, will it foul a track circuit in Platform 3, which will screw up the rest of the service through the station? It would seem to me that terminating Thameslink at Haywards Heath would be sensible, but that would mean that such trains need to return immediately northwards . . . are the drivers in hours, or are they expecting a mandatory PNB at Brighton?

All this and more has to be evaluated and communicated . . . and there is probably one bloke in Control trying to co-ordinate and inform everyone. With the best will in the world, it's still a Mark 1 human brain that is doing it all.

 

[dk1]

Nope, they're using the same track as the passenger services are meant to be using.

Edit: NRE have updated their page to say that Thameslink services can run into Brighton, just with delays. Gatwick Express still cut short at Gatwick Airport/Haywards Heath.
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/preston-park-20240801/

Cheers. No idea then.

 

[MrJeeves]

Not sure of the track layout here but are the ECS workings using a non-passenger line?

Nope, they're using the same track as the passenger services are meant to be using.

Until at least 7:30, both the carriage sidings and the down line were blocked to electric traction, but presumably the "depot problem" has been resolved far enough that current could be restored and services could start to use those lines again.

 

[D7666]

Accurate predictions from regular users, unfortunately!

Of course I have not lived and commuted on Thameslink for more than 30 years and have no experience whatsoever of TL information .........................

 

[dk1]

Until at least 7:30, both the carriage sidings and the down line were blocked to electric traction, but presumably the "depot problem" has been resolved far enough that current could be restored and services could start to use those lines again.

Cheers for that mate.

 

[D7666]

My goodness . . . you lot are harsh!! Just because there is social media doesn't mean that the human brain can respond that quickly!!

Indeed, there was another post whining about not knowing the detail of the issue i.e. power / derailment / whatever.

Only those DIRECTLY dealing with those detials need to know, anyone else just needs to know what the impact is - not what the cause is.

 

[Intercity_225]

Until at least 7:30, both the carriage sidings and the down line were blocked to electric traction, but presumably the "depot problem" has been resolved far enough that current could be restored and services could start to use those lines again.

Cheers.

 

[MrJeeves]

Indeed, there was another post whining about not knowing the detail of the issue i.e. power / derailment / whatever.

Only those DIRECTLY dealing with those detials need to know, anyone else just needs to know what the impact is - not what the cause is.

Except knowing the actual cause can allow people to be more sympathetic.

Many people are fed up with just hearing "a problem currently under investigation" or "an operational incident" or, in this case, a non-descript "problem at the depot".

If people actually hear "a derailment" they'd almost certainly be more understanding about the severity of the issue and why services are delayed. A plain "problem at the depot" makes it, to me, sound far less severe and means people are more frustrated about the fact trains aren't running or are delayed/cancelled.

No member of the public should expect live log of the incident. We don't need to know what caused the derailment, nor do we need to know how they're going to solve the issue, but at least providing a clear explanation of the issue would be beneficial for everyone, both passengers and staff.

Expecting service patterns to be changed at a moment's notice is unrealistic . . . is a Thameslink 12-coach train allowed to terminate at Hove?

Noone asked for this?

 

[RailwayRookie]

Except knowing the actual cause can allow people to be more sympathetic.

Many people are fed up with just hearing "a problem currently under investigation" or "an operational incident" or, in this case, a non-descript "problem at the depot".

If people actually hear "a derailment" they'd almost certainly be more understanding about the severity of the issue and why services are delayed. A plain "problem at the depot" makes it, to me, sound far less severe and means people are more frustrated about the fact trains aren't running or are

Obviously there's no official line yet, but telling the public a train has derailed will cause some to assume its some sort of mass casualty event and then the inevitable hysteria the media loves.

if it were the case that someone forgot a set of manual points and a train dropped one bogey off the rails but blocked the whole depot by conincidence.. that's very much a "problem at the depot"

People don't always need to know why, but they should be told how to deal with the fallout. Like if the Police close a road you need, you are not entitled to be told what has happened just because it affects your journey.

 

[zwk500]

Except knowing the actual cause can allow people to be more sympathetic.

Or cause people to start trying to dig into what's going on. Bit like rubbernecking on the motorway. I had a drive back home once late on a sunday, Motorway taken from 3 lanes down to 1 so a bit of a queue as that sorted itself out, but then I was slightly annoyed at the fact it didn't seem to get moving beyond the merge. Lo and behold, every other car was stopping in the single lane section to get a good gander at the staff clearing the drains or whatever they were doing for a good few seconds.

There's never a right answer because some people are happier knowing more, and others simply want the most relevant information - how to get moving again.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Obviously there's no official line yet, but telling the public a train has derailed will cause some to assume its some sort of mass casualty event and then the inevitable hysteria the media loves.

if it were the case that someone forgot a set of manual points and a train dropped one bogey off the rails but blocked the whole depot by conincidence.. that's very much a "problem at the depot"

People don't always need to know why, but they should be told how to deal with the fallout. Like if the Police close a road you need, you are not entitled to be told what has happened just because it affects your journey.

That's not why they're not telling the truth. The reason they're not telling the truth is to try an protect their reputation. GTR are compulsive liars.