Token collecting apparatus

[Western 52]

At Clarbeston Road signalbox token collecting apparatus is still present, once used so that trains from Fishguard Harbour didn't have to stop to return the token to the signalman. It's not used now as far as I know. The train I was on stopped, although using the apparatus might be tricky from a class 197 cab!

Does anything like this survive elsewhere on the national network?

 

[Ashley Hill]

In my experience of token working on the mainline it is now the norm for the train to come to a stand to collect or give up a token rendering the catching horn obsolete. Neither in my part of the country are token hoops used anymore,certainly not on units.

 

[Bill57p9]

Token hoops were still used between Girvan and Stranraer the last time I travelled the line (SRPS railtour from Newcastle area with 37516 & 37518. 2018?), but with trains coming to a complete halt to exchange.

Given the line is the last on Network Rail to still use tablets, I assume the hoops are retained to minimise the risk/impact of dropping them.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Presumably using such equipment still meant reducing speed considerably in case the token was not available to proceed?

 

[Rescars]

One thing just to drop off a token, but another to exchange tokens where another section of single line lies ahead.

 

[Buzby]

One thing just to drop off a token, but another to exchange tokens where another section of single line lies ahead

I’m sure I saw this ‘ballet’ on the Stranraer line - the handing over and receiving was extremely slick and clearly much effort had gone into completing the exchange process (without injury)!

 

[ac6000cw]

For anyone who hasn't seen manual 'on the fly' tablet/token exchanges being done, my video below taken on the North Norfolk Railway shows a few:

At 00:06 collecting the hoop from the signaller.
At 11:10 the hoop is dropped onto a spiral catcher (train is being hauled by a pair of 08's so it's slow...)
At 16:21 collecting the hoop from the signaller.

I've seen full exchanges done a few times back in BR days - drop the old hoop on a catcher, on the ballast or maybe on the arm of the the signaller, then collect the new one from the signaller. If the collection goes wrong then stop the train and go back to collect it...

 

[Rescars]

Alas the wonders of Manson's and Bryson's exchange apparatus are long gone!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I recall being taught the most important rule to remember, on lines fitted with token-catching apparatus - during degraded working when the token instruments have failed, do not attempt to hang the pilotman on the catching pole.

 

[Gloster]

An incidental advantage of using a token hoop is that if you drop it you have a better chance of finding the token: tokens are only 4” or 5” long. I used to do it without hoops by standing on the board crossing as the train approached with my arms stretched up and the palms together as if praying, but with the fingers apart. Ideally (and usually) the driver would hold the token out with the flat part parallel to the train so that it slid in between my hands. As soon as it did I clapped my hands together and stepped aside. It could go wrong, most likely because the driver moved his hand at the last moment and I dropped it, got it thrown at me or bashed my knuckles. According to the rules (General Appendix, I think) DMUs were supposed to stop to receive the token, but we saw no reason for another stop.

On the occasions when a driver had to collect a token, I held it hanging down with the key end between two fingers and my hand turned round. The driver just had to lean out, grab the token and it slid backwards out of my hand.

These were my methods: other signalmen had different ones. One chap used to collect with a sort of underarm swing and deliver it with an over arm one aiming to slap the token on the driver’s hand. Another used to dart forward once the driver was right up to the handover point and either offer or grab the token.

 

[matchmaker]

Alas the wonders of Manson's and Bryson's exchange apparatus are long gone!

Indeed. The last place Manson's apparatus was used was the Aberdeen - Inverness line in the days of the Swindon Cross-Country DMUs. They were withdrawn in 1980 and replaced by loco hauled stock. I've seen Manson's in action- at Elgin around 1971. Very impressive!

Use on the HML had ceased with the replacement of token working with tokenless block in the late 1960s.

 

[Taunton]

Presumably using such equipment still meant reducing speed considerably in case the token was not available to proceed?

From the Taunton to Barnstaple line, exchange apparatus ("the scissors") used until the last steam locos in the mid-1960s, and only for the expresses on summer Saturdays:

If there was no onward token available the signals would be On anyway. If a hand exchange the distant would not be pulled off. Only if the exchange apparatus was all set up was the distant lowered.

 

[John Webb]

Presumably using such equipment still meant reducing speed considerably in case the token was not available to proceed?

Hand exchange was limited to between 10 or 15mph, according to different sources I've got. But automatic exchangers could be used at up to 60mph, hence their time-saving use.

 

[Rescars]

Hand exchange was limited to between 10 or 15mph, according to different sources I've got. But automatic exchangers could be used at up to 60mph, hence their time-saving use.

Theoretically? D L Smiths Tales of the GSWR are peppered with accounts of the challenges of hand exchange on express workings - and the attempts at protection by various firemen involving leather sleeves and padding etc.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Hand exchange was limited to between 10 or 15mph, according to different sources I've got.

Officially yes, but in practice often done at higher speeds, especially on or approaching a rising gradient!

 

[D7666]

Given the line is the last on Network Rail to still use tablets,

can i clarify what you mean by that ?

are you being specific to tablet as opposed to token or key or staff or other ?

while i can't say i've been on many traditionally worked NR single lines this century, i did last month Rainford Junction / Headbolt Lane and unless very much mistaken I saw a physical single line authority device handed between signaller and driver

if that was specifically not a tablet but another then fine; i'm just claryfying what is meant here

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Hand exchange was limited to between 10 or 15mph, according to different sources I've got. But automatic exchangers could be used at up to 60mph, hence their time-saving use.

I have read that on the Somerset & Dorset, if the loco was a 'foreigner' and not fitted with Whitaker's apparatus, the fireman used to fold a copy of the Bournemouth Echo (other papers were available) around his arm inside his sleeve. A couple of changes and the paper was cut through.
Pat

 

[John Webb]

can i clarify what you mean by that ?

are you being specific to tablet as opposed to token or key or staff or other ?

while i can't say i've been on many traditionally worked NR single lines this century, i did last month Rainford Junction / Headbolt Lane and unless very much mistaken I saw a physical single line authority device handed between signaller and driver

if that was specifically not a tablet but another then fine; i'm just claryfying what is meant here

According to photos in "The Encyclopaedia of 21st Century Signal Boxes" the majority of the West Highland line is worked by Tyler's tablet machines, but the last section from Dunragit to Stranraer is key token. (Although the box at Stranraer is apparently out of use.)

Regarding Rainford - Headbolt Lane, the same book says that there are passenger and freight tokens, the latter with a key that unlocks the ground frame at Knowsley. I assume therefore this is a train staff type token as you can't have a ground frame key on a tablet!

 

[ac6000cw]

According to photos in "The Encyclopaedia of 21st Century Signal Boxes" the majority of the West Highland line is worked by Tyler's tablet machines, but the last section from Dunragit to Stranraer is key token. (Although the box at Stranraer is apparently out of use.)

Don't you mean the Ayr – Stranraer line?

The West Highland line has been RETB worked for decades (excepting the Fort William area).

 

[Bill57p9]

can i clarify what you mean by that ?

are you being specific to tablet as opposed to token or key or staff or other ?

while i can't say i've been on many traditionally worked NR single lines this century, i did last month Rainford Junction / Headbolt Lane and unless very much mistaken I saw a physical single line authority device handed between signaller and driver

if that was specifically not a tablet but another then fine; i'm just claryfying what is meant here

The single line authority devices used between Girvan and Stranraer are tablets: disc shaped devices. I have read it somewhere that the use of tablets specifically is now unique to this route on NR.

There are boxes at Girvan, Barrhill, Dunragit and Stranraer (Harbour) though the latter is usually switched out with the section being worked from Dunragit.

RailScot has a photo of the tablet apparatus in Barrhill station: https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/30/786/
Unusually the tablet apparatus is in the station building, rather than the signal box.

Plenty of other parts of NR have token devices of one form or another.

Don't you mean the Ayr – Stranraer line?

The West Highland line has been RETB worked for decades (excepting the Fort William area).

It would be Stranraer - Girvan rather than Ayr. The two sections between Ayr and Girvan (intermediate box is Kikerran) are tokenless block.

 

[Rescars]

Is Glenwhilly box still open? At one stage it was claimed to be the most remote box in the UK.

 

[Railsigns]

The single line authority devices used between Girvan and Stranraer are tablets: disc shaped devices.

Tablets are only used between Girvan and Dunragit (three single line sections). The last section from Dunragit to Stranraer Harbour uses key tokens (or a train staff in the form of an Annett's key when Stranraer Harbour signal box is switched out).

There are boxes at Girvan, Barrhill, Dunragit and Stranraer (Harbour)

And Glenwhilly.

The two sections between Ayr and Girvan (intermediate box is Kikerran) are tokenless block.

Only Kilkerran to Girvan is worked by tokenless block. North of Kilkerran it's track circuit block.

 

[BillStampy]

At Clarbeston Road signalbox token collecting apparatus is still present, once used so that trains from Fishguard Harbour didn't have to stop to return the token to the signalman. It's not used now as far as I know. The train I was on stopped, although using the apparatus might be tricky from a class 197 cab!

Does anything like this survive elsewhere on the national network?

Class 197s do the same down the Maesteg branch with ease, at Tondu. So doesn't seem to be any struggle.

 

[Railsigns]

Is Glenwhilly box still open? At one stage it was claimed to be the most remote box in the UK.

It's still open. The sections from there to Dunragit and Barrhill are both worked by tablet.

Its other claim to fame is that it works the only remaining semaphore distant signal in Scotland on NR infrastructure.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Unusually the tablet apparatus is in the station building, rather than the signal box.

Many locations in Scotland had the tablet/token and in some cases tokenless block instruments in the station offices.
The West Highland, Far North and Kyle lines and Nairn on the Inverness - Aberdeen line come to mind but possibly others in addition to the Stranraer line. Latterly (pre RETB and pre Network Rail) at most locations the signaller would be the only member of staff on duty and would also sell tickets, deal with parcels etc. and would only visit the signal box when required to operate points and signals.

 

[D7666]

The single line authority devices .................tablets: disc shaped devices. I have read it somewhere that the use of tablets specifically is now unique to this route on NR.

That is my question.

I know what a tablet is physically - however there is common (mis-)use of tablet or token or key or staff by many for any authority device - so what I was trying to get at is really tablet meant here as opposed to the common any device use of the term.

 

[John Webb]

Don't you mean the Ayr – Stranraer line?

The West Highland line has been RETB worked for decades (excepting the Fort William area).

I did indeed mean Ayr-Stranraer - my apologies! (I was hurriedly looking through the book I cited as my source and misread the heading before the pages with the Ayr-Stranraer boxes.)