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Remaining Effects of Covid

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nw1

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I know the above paragraph is speculation but I did it to put into context where we have been with Covid19 and what the next threat might be. One lesson might be that we need to keep our immune systems "exercised" with regular exposure and have the capability to develop vaccines very quickly for the once in a hundred years new virus. I think lockdowns were easier with Covid19 than would have been with Spanish Flu as nowadays we have computers and the internet
I wonder whether lockdown would have been viable as a measure even as recently as 1999 (i.e. 20 years before 2019). Internet was widespread at workplaces but not yet at home.

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My bold. I see that happening already. I feel many humans do already resort to indoors much more than we used to. Furthermore I think things like gyms are an answer to the problem that never really existed even 50 years ago. People nowadays replacing lack of social contact with manufactured solutions (probably due to having more leisure time). I do see a lot of people stuck in front of their TV or internet instead of being active.

To be clear I do not think this is being forced on people but many seem happy to be inactive (physically and socially) then wonder why they are depressed. For those of us using common sense lockdowns were a real imposition (I won't argue here about how necessary or not they were).
I do wonder whether, for whatever reason, we are prolonging a lifestyle influenced by Covid and/or lockdown unnecessarily long. It's as if some got "used" to a lockdown lifestyle during 2020/21 and haven't yet snapped out of it. Not because they're frightened of Covid, but because they see it as some kind of "new norm".

To be quite honest I'd like us to reset to pre-Covid times, albeit with a greater awareness of the effects of viral transmission.
 
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Peter Sarf

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I wonder whether lockdown would have been viable as a measure even as recently as 1999 (i.e. 20 years before 2019). Internet was widespread at workplaces but not yet at home.

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Indeed, I suspect that a lockdown would have been harder in 1999, and will be easier in 2039 (robot delivery services are on the way).
I do wonder whether, for whatever reason, we are prolonging a lifestyle influenced by Covid and/or lockdown unnecessarily long. It's as if some got "used" to a lockdown lifestyle during 2020/21 and haven't yet snapped out of it. Not because they're frightened of Covid, but because they see it as some kind of "new norm".

To be quite honest I'd like us to reset to pre-Covid times, albeit with a greater awareness of the effects of viral transmission.
Definitely will be those who have slipped into a lockdown habit to a greater or lesser degree. Some cannot let go of masks - But some will be imunno compromised or old so will want protection from all viruses regardless (but will now view masks as more useful or less unusual).

The big change I personally see is whereas myself and my group of friends would go to the pub almost every Saturday (not every Saturday but someone would always be there so one could bank on it). We now meet up roughly twice a year (not helped by our local Wetherspoons closing and now the next appropriate/near one has gone too). Not sure I want to go back to drinking so much so regularly though. Analysing it the group was getting fragile anyway as some were having to go on medication and two are emigrating - I think lockdowns just accelerated the process and many of us lost the (bad) habit.
 

AM9

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Do you do the same for every other endemic strain of the common cold that there is a small chance that a neighbour might have a rare vulnerability to? If not then your are being logically inconsistent in singling out this one particular strain of cold which is no more dangerous than any other.
Effectively yes insomuch that I have an ability to know at what stage my infection is at. Normally, if i am at the elevated temerature stage, I tend not to mix with others unnecessarily. Uniquely though I do have easy access to an effective test for COVID strains so if I am infectious it is easier to confirm.
For the benefit of others here, In my case, adjusting my life slightly for 2-4 daysis not obesity or mental health inducing and it's laughable to even mention the word lockdown in such a case.:rolleyes:
 

DustyBin

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There’s a decent piece in the Mail regarding the Covid enquiry.

The lesson they're determined to ignore: lockdown was a disaster, writes infectious diseases expert Kevin Bardosh​


At 240 pages thick, the first official report from the near two-year-long Covid Inquiry is certainly weighty, but at its core are just two central messages.

They are that the Government prepared for the wrong pandemic and that the plans Britain put in place in case of a widespread influenza outbreak were inadequate and largely irrelevant in the face of the coronavirus.

It's a message trumpeted time and again in language that veers from alarmist to authoritarian, with talk of 'radical reform' and 'major overhauls' in the way we prepare for future pandemics.

But this is based on a dangerous fallacy – the wrong-headed belief that it is the Government's job to avoid any and all untimely deaths during an outbreak and that we can in some way 'stop' pandemics in their tracks.

A noble sentiment but, alas, neither is possible nor realistic.

The idea that human populations can ever be completely protected from a new virus in whatever form is one based on an illusion of control that does not exist in the real world.

It also ignores basic facts about how viruses and immunity work. The truth is that the mitigation and suppression of any pandemic that might head our way is an imperfect art.

Yet this report proceeds from the basic assumption that more 'preparedness' is needed, and largely ignores the terrible harm that resulted from the effects of panic and overzealous government restrictions when Covid struck.

Its tone is set from the start – framed by quotations from grieving families. Of course, the deaths of loved ones are incredibly sad. But citing them in this way brings the inevitable sense that, had the Government been more diligent, such deaths could have been avoided. This is not true.

Time and again, the report's authors refer to countries such as South Korea and Taiwan, which took early and stringent measures including rapid border restrictions and localised lockdowns, strict testing, 'contact-tracing' and quarantines.

Yet our own Health Security Agency found little evidence that 'test, trace and isolate' – the mantra we came to rely upon in the UK – was effective.

Meanwhile, the example of Sweden – a country that took a far more relaxed, voluntary-based response to the pandemic, trusting its citizens to use their common sense and maintain social distancing – is largely ignored in the report, despite that, overall, Sweden had a lower percentage of excess deaths than the UK.

Did Britain prepare for the 'wrong pandemic' when it drew up its detailed plans in 2011? Absolutely not.

Influenza mutates unpredictably and is a sensible model upon which to have based our responses. An influenza pandemic would have been no less dangerous than the Covid outbreak of 2020. Were our carefully laid plans irrelevant? Again, no.

Britain's original strategy recognised that preparing for a pandemic was not just about reducing the immediate effect of Covid on the health of the population, but also about minimising the negative impacts of government action on our society.

This is the approach that the Swedes adopted, but which we, unfortunately, abandoned at an early stage. Baroness Hallett's report and recommendations are not all bad.

We can be thankful that the Inquiry acknowledges the widespread social damage caused by Covid and the repeated lockdowns – damage which barely needs to be set out here, living as we are under the desperate consequences of NHS backlogs, mental health and child development crises.

But the most important lesson from Covid – that Britain's experimental policy of closing down society failed to control the virus and caused more harm than good – is never seriously considered. We must hope that future reports do better.

 

Bald Rick

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I reckon in one hundred years time most of us will be at home having food delivered by robots and the waste all goes down the pan (biodegradable packaging). There will be people to avoid e.g. some wierdos that insist on going out perhaps in groups watching trains go by or people having to work in groups actually making or repairing infrastructure. Risk of a two tier society (which sort of had appeared back in lockdown - my team were expected to wear masks as we roamed the whole factory complex). So in future humans will get very ill from any old virus because we will go through most of life not rubbing shoulders with fellow humans.

If you haven’t already, read “The Machine Stops” by E M Forster. Written well over a century ago…
 

Irascible

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There’s a decent piece in the Mail regarding the Covid enquiry.

A not remotely biased summary rather loaded with fallacies there, I see.

--

The vaccine rollout was horribly rushed, and I was railroaded into an early group when I'd have skipped it entirely until I'd seen how people were handling it. I've never recovered from the three jabs I had, and now I'm social distancing for the rest of my life because any positive effect the vaccines had has worn off & I've genuinely lost brain function & don't want to lose any more. And I've never had actual covid...

The fact we can apparently handle working flexibly is a positive effect though. Although given I've been doing that since the 90s, could have just asked me instead.
 

Eyersey468

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A not remotely biased summary rather loaded with fallacies there, I see.

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The vaccine rollout was horribly rushed, and I was railroaded into an early group when I'd have skipped it entirely until I'd seen how people were handling it. I've never recovered from the three jabs I had, and now I'm social distancing for the rest of my life because any positive effect the vaccines had has worn off & I've genuinely lost brain function & don't want to lose any more. And I've never had actual covid...

The fact we can apparently handle working flexibly is a positive effect though. Although given I've been doing that since the 90s, could have just asked me instead.
Sorry to hear the effect it had on you, I agree the vaccine rollout was rushed and a lot of people were pressured into getting it
 

nw1

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If you haven’t already, read “The Machine Stops” by E M Forster. Written well over a century ago…

Not heard of it before, let alone read it, but I see what you mean from reading a description of it online.

I'd like to think that we as a human race are self-aware enough to not slip into anything even close to such a dystopia.

At the end of the day I believe our desire for social contact and our desire to experience the "real world" will prevent something like this happening, unless forced on us by a dictatorial regime.
 

DustyBin

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A not remotely biased summary rather loaded with fallacies there, I see.

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I'm not sure what you're getting at? In my opinion the covid enquiry has been nowhere near critical enough of the botched response, and has whitewashed the fact that our longstanding pandemic response plan was thrown out the window in blind panic. You may disagree of course....

The vaccine rollout was horribly rushed, and I was railroaded into an early group when I'd have skipped it entirely until I'd seen how people were handling it. I've never recovered from the three jabs I had, and now I'm social distancing for the rest of my life because any positive effect the vaccines had has worn off & I've genuinely lost brain function & don't want to lose any more. And I've never had actual covid...

The fact we can apparently handle working flexibly is a positive effect though. Although given I've been doing that since the 90s, could have just asked me instead.

I'm sorry to hear that. I opted to give the vaccines a miss for various reasons, but I completely understand why some people felt that they effectively had no choice.
 

island

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I agree we won't learn the lessons. My concern is lockdown being seen as the go to thing every time something threatening comes along rather than the once in a lifetime last resort that it should be
Indeed. It seems to be a heuristic that people are using that a "big" action is "better" than a "small" action. Just like how (according to a study) people perceived an injectable medicine to be more effective than a pill.
 

Bikeman78

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I'm sorry to hear that. I opted to give the vaccines a miss for various reasons, but I completely understand why some people felt that they effectively had no choice.
People working for the NHS being one example. Though some chose to resign instead. Which probably isn't helping the ever growing waiting lists.
 
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DustyBin

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People working for the NHS being one example. Though some chose to resign instead. Which probably is isn't helping the ever growing waiting lists.

It's interesting that you mention this as I know a few NHS workers, including a couple of fairly senior doctors, who declined the vaccine or didn't receive a booster. I asked them (a couple of them anyway) if they were concerned about the prospect of losing their job, and they actually weren't. They said is that the NHS would literally cease to function if the government followed through with it's threat as so many staff were unvaccinated, and therefore the threat was an empty one. If you look beyond the headline "98% vaccinated" figure, the scale of the problem the government would have faced becomes apparent....

It was a shameful episode however, regardless.
 

Mag_seven

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It's interesting that you mention this as I know a few NHS workers, including a couple of fairly senior doctors, who declined the vaccine or didn't receive a booster. I asked them (a couple of them anyway) if they were concerned about the prospect of losing their job, and they actually weren't. They said is that the NHS would literally cease to function if the government followed through with it's threat as so many staff were unvaccinated, and therefore the threat was an empty one. If you look beyond the headline "98% vaccinated" figure, the scale of the problem the government would have faced becomes apparent....

It was a shameful episode however, regardless.

The vaccine did stop vulnerable people from becoming very ill but the reason that vaccine mandates were introduced was because it was claimed they stopped transmission when they didn't. As far as I am aware no one in authority has ever apologised for this.
 

Bikeman78

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It's interesting that you mention this as I know a few NHS workers, including a couple of fairly senior doctors, who declined the vaccine or didn't receive a booster. I asked them (a couple of them anyway) if they were concerned about the prospect of losing their job, and they actually weren't. They said is that the NHS would literally cease to function if the government followed through with it's threat as so many staff were unvaccinated, and therefore the threat was an empty one. If you look beyond the headline "98% vaccinated" figure, the scale of the problem the government would have faced becomes apparent....

It was a shameful episode however, regardless.
I know one person that simply resigned. She can't be the only one.
 

brad465

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The new XEC variant is starting to dominate:


People have started catching a new Covid variant that could soon take off and become the dominant type, according to scientists.
Identified in Germany, in June, cases of the XEC variant have since emerged in the UK, US, Denmark and several other countries, say users on X,, external formerly known as Twitter.
It has some new mutations that might help it spread this autumn, although vaccines should still help prevent severe cases, experts say.
For those more likely to become seriously ill from Covid, the NHS offers a free booster shot.
The vaccines have been updated to better match recent variants, although not XEC, which has emerged from earlier Omicron subvariants.
Prof Francois Balloux, Director of the Genetics Institute at University College London, told BBC News that although XEC has a "slight transmission advantage" over other recent Covid variants, vaccines should still offer good protection.
He says it is possible XEC will become the dominant subvariant over the winter though.

Going by its name this variant is particularly dangerous, as it causes one of make rash business decisions, spread conspiracy theories, incite violence and other criminal activity.
 

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zero

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The new XEC variant is starting to dominate:




Going by its name this variant is particularly dangerous, as it causes one of make rash business decisions, spread conspiracy theories, incite violence and other criminal activity.

While I think this was said in jest, I wonder if there is actually some truth to it.

Increased aggression and impaired / rash decision making could be a psychological effect stemming from governments' responses to the pandemic, but perhaps exposure to this virus may also have caused behavioural changes, not necessarily correlated to whether you had physical flu-like symptoms if you were infected?
 

GRALISTAIR

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The new XEC variant is starting to dominate:

Going by its name this variant is particularly dangerous, as it causes one of make rash business decisions, spread conspiracy theories, incite violence and other criminal activity.
Brilliant!
That has just so made me laugh :lol:
Me too.
While I think this was said in jest, I wonder if there is actually some truth to it.

Increased aggression and impaired / rash decision making could be a psychological effect stemming from governments' responses to the pandemic, but perhaps exposure to this virus may also have caused behavioural changes, not necessarily correlated to whether you had physical flu-like symptoms if you were infected?
I have no doubt there is some truth in this. I have not caught up reading all the scientific journals (peer reviewed) but there is certainly anecdotal evidence that some of this is true. People's attitudes have changed since the pandemic.
 
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