London's Broad Street Station

[LBMPSB]

I remember seeing Class 31s, Class 501s and 2-EPBs in Broad Street Station. Did Class 313s ever visit there before it's demise?

 

[cslusarc]

I remember seeing Class 31s, Class 501s and 2-EPBs in Broad Street Station. Did Class 313s ever visit there before it's demise?

Yes

See here.

 

[dk1]

A quick Google reveals they did.

 

[The exile]

That is of course the temporary platform (used from some point in 1985) rather than the station proper.

 

[Class15]

That is of course the temporary platform (used from some point in 1985) rather than the station proper.

Yes. Would be interesting to know if 313s ever used the main station?

 

[PeterC]

Yes. Would be interesting to know if 313s ever used the main station?

I was using Broad Street regularly until just after the temporary platform was opened and I don't recall ever seeing a 313.

 

[Snow1964]

Originally when electric trains started from Broad Street (in middle of First World War in 1916) only platforms 5-9 were electrified. The 9th platform outside station wall was added as late as 1913. All the platforms were relatively short between 419 and 480 feet

On 27 January 1969, the goods station was closed, the approach from Dalston was reduced to 2 tracks and platforms 1, 2, 3, 9 closed. Platforms 4-8 were renumbered 1-5. The 4th rail was also taken out of use.

From 6 November 1976 the Great Northern services stopped, another platform was closed and an other reduced to emergency use, so only 3 of 9 platforms in normal use. The Watford peak hour services dwindled and Richmond effectively closed when services were diverted to newly electrified North Woolwich services in 1985.

The opening of the Graham Road curve in Hackney saw the diversion in May or June 1986 of residual Watford trains to Liverpool Street (I think they only lasted about 6 or 7 years). Due to station demolition for Broadgate development they were served by temporary platform for final few months.

 

[Magdalia]

On 27 January 1969, the goods station was closed, the approach from Dalston was reduced to 2 tracks and platforms 1, 2, 3, 9 closed. Platforms 4-8 were renumbered 1-5. The 4th rail was also taken out of use.

Did those track changes occur immediately after closure of the good shed?

I suspect that they may have had to wait until after the May 1969 timetable change when the GN suburban services at Broad Street ceased to use loco hauled trains.

 

[Class15]

I was using Broad Street regularly until just after the temporary platform was opened and I don't recall ever seeing a 313.

That’s interesting, thanks. Wonder exactly when they began work on the NLL. 1985?

 

[vic-rijrode]

Originally when electric trains started from Broad Street (in middle of First World War in 1916) only platforms 5-9 were electrified.

For a time (perhaps only in the 1930s), there were a few direct trains from Croxley Green to Broad Street (as well as to Euston).

 

[AndrewE]

For a time (perhaps only in the 1930s), there were a few direct trains from Croxley Green to Broad Street (as well as to Euston).

in the 1960s there was at least 1 morning train from Tring to Broad St - my dad used to commute on it! Presumably back in the evening too.

 

[Magdalia]

in the 1960s there was at least 1 morning train from Tring to Broad St - my dad used to commute on it! Presumably back in the evening too.

These ran up to electrification at Euston. In the 1965 timetable they were 0748 and 0840 from Tring in the morning, 1721 and 1805 from Broad Street in the evening.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

These ran up to electrification at Euston. In the 1965 timetable they were 0748 and 0840 from Tring in the morning,..

What were their respective arrival times into Broad Street? Also, did through services from Tring operate on Saturdays (when half day working was, I believe, still the norm).

 

[Magdalia]

What were their respective arrival times into Broad Street?

My WTT doesn't give those, but I'd guess about 0900 and 0950.

Also, did through services from Tring operate on Saturdays

No, just SX.

 

[RT4038]

For a time (perhaps only in the 1930s), there were a few direct trains from Croxley Green to Broad Street (as well as to Euston).

In Sep64 to June65 timetable there was a 07h35 Croxley Green to Broad St arr 08h31. Return at 17h48. Nothing through from Croxley Green to Euston. Nothing on Sa.

In Summer 1956 there was 07h28 and 08h28 Croxley Green to Broad st, returning at 17h25 (only). The 07h28 up also ran Sa, but no return. On Mo.-Sa there was an 08h01 Croxley Green to Euston, but no return.

Exactly the same in 1951.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2024 ==

My WTT doesn't give those, but I'd guess about 0900 and 0950.


No, just SX.

09h03 and 09h48 !

In the 1956 timetable the departures were 07h50 and 08h44. Returning at 17h22 and 18h07. Sa. at 07h50 from Tring, returning at 12h47. By '65 Sa. morning working in offices was quite attenuated from earlier times.

 

[etr221]

These ran up to electrification at Euston. In the 1965 timetable they were 0748 and 0840 from Tring in the morning, 1721 and 1805 from Broad Street in the evening.

They lasted up until the the new 'electric' timetable on the southern bit of the WCML, in mid April 1966. All services into Euston were electric (to old (?) times) from early Jan '66, some had been from (IIRC) Nov '65. Between Jan and April, they were the only regular diesel services on that part of the line. A grubby (as I recall them) green BR Sulzer Type 2 (later class 24) on six non corridor maroons was rather out of place among all the new blue electrics!

Originally when electric trains started from Broad Street (in middle of First World War in 1916) only platforms 5-9 were electrified.

Worth noting perhaps that these ran via the Hampstead Junction line (i.e. Gospel Oak) until the new junction layout at Camden/Primrose Hill was complete - only then was the electrification
brought into use from Queen's Park (whither it had been used by the LNWR/LER(BS&W) through service since 1917) to Euston and Camden Road. While most of the electric service from Broad Street towards Watford was rerouted via the 'new line' (i.e. Queen's Park), I believe that some trains continued to run via the HJ for many years (until the 1960s ?).

 

[Snow1964]

For a time (perhaps only in the 1930s), there were a few direct trains from Croxley Green to Broad Street (as well as to Euston).

The oddest trains that I can find were introduced by LNWR around 1910 to compete with the new Great Central and GW mainline. Businessmen's trains from Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Coventry to City at Broad Street. The description I found said it even carried a carried typist for those needing letters. The service only lasted until First World War.

 

[Magdalia]

They lasted up until the the new 'electric' timetable on the southern bit of the WCML, in mid April 1966. All services into Euston were electric (to old (?) times) from early Jan '66, some had been from (IIRC) Nov '65. Between Jan and April, they were the only regular diesel services on that part of the line. A grubby (as I recall them) green BR Sulzer Type 2 (later class 24) on six non corridor maroons was rather out of place among all the new blue electrics!

Thanks, I'd wondered whether the Tring/Broad Street trains had lasted right through to April 1966.

Worth noting perhaps that these ran via the Hampstead Junction line (i.e. Gospel Oak) until the new junction layout at Camden/Primrose Hill was complete - only then was the electrification
brought into use from Queen's Park (whither it had been used by the LNWR/LER(BS&W) through service since 1917) to Euston and Camden Road. While most of the electric service from Broad Street towards Watford was rerouted via the 'new line' (i.e. Queen's Park), I believe that some trains continued to run via the HJ for many years (until the 1960s ?).

My 1965 WTT has the Tring/Broad Street trains via Camden.

By '65 Sa. morning working in offices was quite attenuated from earlier times.

The two GN Saturday trains to/from Broad Street lasted right up to electrification in 1976.

 

[RT4038]

The two GN Saturday trains to/from Broad Street lasted right up to electrification in 1976.

I would guess that they weren't very well patronised by that time. The 1956 timetable had 7 up and 5 down 'commuter' trains.

 

[etr221]

My 1965 WTT has the Tring/Broad Street trains via Camden.

These, AFAIK, always ran main line. My reference was to some (dc) electrics continuing to run via the HJ, joining the new line at Willesden Jn (new) LL

 

[nw1]

My WTT doesn't give those, but I'd guess about 0900 and 0950.

Would the latter one in particular not be a bit late for the working day?

 

[RT4038]

Would the latter one in particular not be a bit late for the working day?

I think in those days quite a lot of City office people worked 10h00-18h00.

 

[Magdalia]

I think in those days quite a lot of City office people worked 10h00-18h00.

More like 10 am to 4 pm, and with a long lunch.

Until financial deregulation in the 1980s the City was a very leisurely operation.

 

[nw1]

More like 10 am to 4 pm, and with a long lunch.

Until financial deregulation in the 1980s the City was a very leisurely operation.

I think in those days quite a lot of City office people worked 10h00-18h00.

Interesting: if one thinks of the Portsmouth Direct in the first half of the 80s, the peak trains arrived into Waterloo between around 0805 and 0925, so the later ones were well after 0900.

I realise it's getting a bit OT but one change I do remember around 1985 is that the former 0733 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo (due 0925), formed of 10 coaches, was replaced by (on the one hand) extra stops on the preceding 0730 fast and (on the other hand) a "short" from Haslemere to Waterloo in more or less the same path, formed of a mere 4 coaches. This must have been a sign that demand for post-0915 arrivals, at least, was considerably lower by then.

A little later, more like late 80s, the previous stopper, the 0713 Portsmouth to Waterloo (due around 0905; exact timings varied depending on year) also went down from 12 to 8 coaches.

 

[Taunton]

Yes. Would be interesting to know if 313s ever used the main station?

There was a comparable discussion here a while ago, all participants denied a 313 ever got into the old main station, until someone posted a photo of one there, alongside a 501 in the next platform. It was an ecs/training run, but there it was. I'm afraid you will have to dig back for it.

 

[Magdalia]

In the 1960s and 1970s the secretaries and clerks in the City would be working standard office hours, in many cases including Saturday mornings. But they usually commuted over much shorter distances, within what became the travelcard boundary. It was the pinstripe suit, briefcase and rolled umbrella City Gents that commuted longer distances and worked much shorter days.

 

[rick_suffolk]

I would guess that they weren't very well patronised by that time. The 1956 timetable had 7 up and 5 down 'commuter' trains.

I took those lunchtime trains a few times out of Broad St - near empty Rolls Royce 3 car Class 125 dmu. The similar Saturday lunchtime departures from Moorgate Widened Lines Cravens 2 car Class 105s were likewise near empty until Kings X

 

[Springs Branch]

I think in those days quite a lot of City office people worked 10h00-18h00.

In the 1960s and 1970s the secretaries and clerks in the City would be working standard office hours, in many cases including Saturday mornings. But they usually commuted over much shorter distances, within what became the travelcard boundary. It was the pinstripe suit, briefcase and rolled umbrella City Gents that commuted longer distances and worked much shorter days.

Not just in the City of London - I remember being surprised that in the late 60s & 70s, many of the DMU successors to the 'Residential’ expresses between Blackpool & Southport and Manchester arrived in Manchester either just before, or significantly after 9am.

These were Southport trains that ran express between St Lukes / Meols Cop and Salford (calling only at Wigan and did the end-to-end trip in 55 mins) or the trains to/from Blackpool North or South which skipped the Bolton stop. They were easily spotted in the WTT by their 'express' 1Jxx headcodes.

I suppose it gave the clerical staff time to open the morning post and sort all the correspondence into the senior chaps' In-Trays before they marched into the office, briefcases & umbrellas in hand.

A snapshot of 'residential' arrivals at Manchester Victoria in 1968:-
From Blackpool South:
08:33 (Man. Exchange), 09:05, 09:12

From Blackpool North:
08:47, 09:27

From Southport:
07:58, 08:49, 09:55

And it wasn't just daily commuting that kept more 'gentlemanly' hours. For longer-distance business travellers, most of the prime business trains from large cities to London (e.g. Pullmans) departed at quite a sensible hour well into later Inter-City days - allowing a leisurely breakfast in the restaurant car, a good read of the newspaper and arrival into London sometime mid-morning. No getting up at Stupid-O'-Clock to catch an early train in the pitch dark for executives in those days, nor any expectation you would arrive in London in time for a 9am meeting.

 

[Rescars]

All really rather civilised!

 

[Dr_Paul]

The oddest trains that I can find were introduced by LNWR around 1910 to compete with the new Great Central and GW mainline. Businessmen's trains from Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Coventry to City at Broad Street. The description I found said it even carried a carried typist for those needing letters. The service only lasted until First World War.

Broad Street was a lot more convenient for the City than Paddington or Marylebone, no need for a change to the underground. On the other hand, Camden Road to Broad Street might not have been that fast, even though there were four tracks, because of stoppers and freight.