Revenue Protection at Brighton

[williamn]

Staff will absolutely refuse to let you cross across the platform side of the concourse (in my case from an East Coastway service On P8 onto a West Coastway on I think P3) even if you're showing them a valid ticket. I tried reasoning with one the other day but he absolutely wouldn't have it, despite me having a ton of luggage in tow.

 

[Kite159]

Staff will absolutely refuse to let you cross across the platform side of the concourse (in my case from an East Coastway service On P8 onto a West Coastway on I think P3) even if you're showing them a valid ticket. I tried reasoning with one the other day but he absolutely wouldn't have it, despite me having a ton of luggage in tow.

"Putting the passenger first"
Oh no, you need to queue up to exit the station to queue up to re-enter the station and no doubt the ticket will reject at the barriers.

Brighton, giving Euston/Blackpool North a run for the award of most passenger unfriendly station.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

"Putting the passenger first"
Oh no, you need to queue up to exit the station to queue up to re-enter the station and no doubt the ticket will reject at the barriers.

Brighton, giving Euston/Blackpool North a run for the award of most passenger unfriendly station.

That gets worse when you think about the possibility that they might end up reprogramming the ticket barriers so they only accept tickets based on the line which the platforms are usually assigned for, which in turn will cause problems when platforms gets swapped around.

Staff will absolutely refuse to let you cross across the platform side of the concourse (in my case from an East Coastway service On P8 onto a West Coastway on I think P3) even if you're showing them a valid ticket. I tried reasoning with one the other day but he absolutely wouldn't have it, despite me having a ton of luggage in tow.

By staff, I assume you mean both normal staff and these extra 'revenue protection' staff? (or maybe convenience protection staff, giving they are protecting the station from being convenient to passengers by making you go through a dozen queues).

To be absolutely honest, it would be really nice if all of this nonsense could be made illegal, and showing them a valid ticket proving you are eligible to travel shouldn't lead to you being turned away from an empty piece of concourse. I get where its totally different tickets to other platforms, like at Euston or Blackpool North, but not where its the same train company operating services in different directions. Let's just hope this new 'Great British Railways' system can eliminate at least some of this nonsense.

 

[williamn]

By staff, I assume you mean both normal staff and these extra 'revenue protection' staff?

Only the revenue protection staff, the normal staff are only by the gateline and I was attempting to avoid the scrum of people there…

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

Only the revenue protection staff, the normal staff are only by the gateline and I was attempting to avoid the scrum of people there…

So basically, when the revenue protection staff are not in operation (e.g. during the early mornings or late evenings), you can interchange as normal. Is that right?

 

[williamn]

So basically, when the revenue protection staff are not in operation (e.g. during the early mornings or late evenings), you can interchange as normal. Is that right?

Correct yes, they stow all the temporary barriers away outside of the times the extra checks operate.

 

[MrJeeves]

If anyone wants to get this all changed, a new position has just opened up! :P

GTR Careers

We are the UK’s largest railway franchise, operating Southern, Thameslink, Great Northern and Gatwick Express.

gtrailwaycareers.com

Rail Enforcement Team Leader - Brighton ( £38,758 + Sunday Allowance £25.48 per hour)

An exciting opportunity has arisen to support the Rail Enforcement Manager – Southern Network based in our Brighton location.

You will have the opportunity:

• To lead and work as a member of the Safer Travel Team. In conjunction with both contracted Security Staff and British Transport Police Officers to deter crime and anti-social behaviour.
• To offer outstanding levels of customer service to passengers whilst supporting Southern staff as required.
• To aid with crowd control and respond to emergencies, helping as required to the police and other emergency services.
• Ensure compliance with the Criminal Law, the Conditions of Carriage and the railway byelaws by people on the railway, minimising fare evasion and supporting other team members in their responsibilities.
• Act as an authorised collector within the Southern Penalty Fare Scheme an issue tickets to travel. Issue Penalty Notices for Disorder and Fixed Penalty Notices in accordance with the law.
• Carry out day to day team leader duties, which include first line people management responsibilities.

 

[Kite159]

And the funny thing is those extra checks won't stop someone travelling from say Newhaven (or another station out east without barriers) towards a station out west without barriers as they will simply buy a London Road - Hove day return to bypass the checks at Brighton

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

And the funny thing is those extra checks won't stop someone travelling from say Newhaven (or another station out east without barriers) towards a station out west without barriers as they will simply buy a London Road - Hove day return to bypass the checks at Brighton

They may do though, because if conductors have been briefed to do more ticket checks at any point during journeys, which really could happen at some point on the way into Brighton, that will be a case where you are caught red handed on the train, and depending on how nice the guard is, you'll end up with a penalty fare or having to pay the fare you should have paid in the first place (maybe if you claim you couldn't work out how to use a self service ticket machine). While I see your point, the ultimate reality is that the stations out west which do not have ticket barriers are generally the kind of stations which have lower passengers, who mostly tend to go only into Brighton itself, so I suspect journeys from say Fishersgate to Newhaven are probably pretty rare, at least in terms of commuting.

Overall, I would say that a hypothetical solution rather than all of this nonsense happening would have been if all conductors are asked to do a full ticket check (to the best of their ability) on the first leg of journeys out of Brighton, so for the West Coastway line for example, that would be between Brighton and Hove. Likewise, the instruction could be to do it on the last leg of the journey from Hove to Brighton for services arriving into Brighton. That way, they could ensure that everyone has the right ticket coming into Brighton for the automatic barrier, and if someone gets caught red handed at the barrier, then let normal staff deal with that, given that could technically happen at any railway station in the whole world which has ticket barriers. Too much of the time, I have seen guards just sitting in the back cab, and getting them to do more I would say is reasonable, particularly given they striked to keep their place on the railway in 2016.

Looking at that job description, I think its absolutely hillarious how part of the job is apparantly to ensure "outstanding" customer service, despite the fact that making it harder to interchange at a key junction and berating passengers who attempt the convenience of just walking across the concourse straight from one platform to another really isn't good customer service by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Recessio]

Is this more of a West Coastway problem then? I think I get my ticket checked every single I go from Newhaven to Brighton.

 

[bakerstreet]

You will have the opportunity:

To offer outstanding levels of customer service to passengers

Just the opportunity to.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Yes, the opportunity will be provided during training and is prohibited beyond that point.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Overall, I would say that a hypothetical solution rather than all of this nonsense happening would have been if all conductors are asked to do a full ticket check (to the best of their ability) on the first leg of journeys out of Brighton, so for the West Coastway line for example, that would be between Brighton and Hove. Likewise, the instruction could be to do it on the last leg of the journey from Hove to Brighton for services arriving into Brighton. That way, they could ensure that everyone has the right ticket coming into Brighton for the automatic barrier, and if someone gets caught red handed at the barrier, then let normal staff deal with that, given that could technically happen at any railway station in the whole world which has ticket barriers.

Brighton to Hove is 1 stop and only takes a few minutes . How do you propose a conductor does a full ticket check on a 4-car train that is usually full and standing?

And then, continuing west from Hove, how do you propose the conductor spends his time... in the back cab?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Is this more of a West Coastway problem then? I think I get my ticket checked every single I go from Newhaven to Brighton.

I've done Seaford-Lewes or Seaford-Brighton a few times lately, I've always had a prompt ticket check en route. (Admittedly, on trains lightly loaded - at least on the Seaford-Lewes stretch - at the time.)

 

[Recessio]

I've done Seaford-Lewes or Seaford-Brighton a few times lately, I've always had a prompt ticket check en route. (Admittedly, on trains lightly loaded - at least on the Seaford-Lewes stretch - at the time.)

Even on fairly busy trains the guard has a go at checking, I seem to find, even if they won't manage everyone.

It's only the football days that are standing only the guard doesn't always check, but then they can't always physically fit through the train!

 

[williamn]

Yes I find the coastway trains often have a check. On the London - Lewes - Eastbourne - Hastings trains there's very rarely one however.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

Brighton to Hove is 1 stop and only takes a few minutes . How do you propose a conductor does a full ticket check on a 4-car train that is usually full and standing?

And then, continuing west from Hove, how do you propose the conductor spends his time... in the back cab?

I know its not possible to guarantee a full ticket check, but i would suggest that for the first part of a journey, that should be one of the first things a conductor should get to work on, even though i do totally agree it cant be conpleted by Hove. Overall, i would say it would be useful to ensure that passengers for the stations without gates, like Southwick should expect a reasonable chance of a ticket check.

Although i suspect it doesnt usually happen immediately west of Hove, I have seen conductors in back cabs on many occasions, particularly back when class 313s ran. Its just because they get bored i imagine. One example i can think of was on a 3 car train from Brighton to Portsmouth, where i remember the guard was probably in the back cab when a fight happened on the train, and we were between Lancing and East Worthing (that was around 2130, but still).

 

[williamn]

This irritating system is still in place. What’s nuts is that the contract staff clearly don’t know what they’re looking for on a ticket probably other than date and destination. Mine wasn’t accepted on the way in or out by the ticket gates (not that I should have to exit anyway, grumble grumble) but they waved me through with no questions whereas in Lewes where I got on the Southern staff asked me some questions.

As an aside its odd that the gates rejected my off peak ticket when it was perfectly valid to use on the 08.39 train.

 

[nanstallon]

I know its not possible to guarantee a full ticket check, but i would suggest that for the first part of a journey, that should be one of the first things a conductor should get to work on, even though i do totally agree it cant be conpleted by Hove. Overall, i would say it would be useful to ensure that passengers for the stations without gates, like Southwick should expect a reasonable chance of a ticket check.

Although i suspect it doesnt usually happen immediately west of Hove, I have seen conductors in back cabs on many occasions, particularly back when class 313s ran. Its just because they get bored i imagine. One example i can think of was on a 3 car train from Brighton to Portsmouth, where i remember the guard was probably in the back cab when a fight happened on the train, and we were between Lancing and East Worthing (that was around 2130, but still).

In other words, if railway staff did the job they are paid to do, there wouldn't be the need to hassle customers at Brighton. On a service with frequent stops at small stations it isn't easy to cover them all, but if passengers are expecting 'a reasonable chance of a ticket check' they are less likely to try their luck.

 

[OrangeJuice]

In other words, if railway staff did the job they are paid to do, there wouldn't be the need to hassle customers at Brighton. On a service with frequent stops at small stations it isn't easy to cover them all, but if passengers are expecting 'a reasonable chance of a ticket check' they are less likely to try their luck.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. Quite a few people I know get frustrated when they don't get tickets checked or barriers are open and if others experience that they are far more likely to chance it

 

[Sonic1234]

In other words, if railway staff did the job they are paid to do, there wouldn't be the need to hassle customers at Brighton

Exactly. If people knew there was a high probability of being caught, they wouldn't chance it (doesn't have to be 100%). You only need to sell them a new ticket, if it happened a few times people would learn it's not worth chancing it. Or the railway should accept that the savings in staff costs are worth a few people applying a Railcard discount they're not entitled to.

Southern have the worst of both worlds - staff costs for the OBSs but poor revenue protection, as some OBSs do very little.

If you're delayed due to a revenue block, claim delay repay and complain. GTR seem to favour giving out a £10 rail travel voucher to complainants, so it's worthwhile expressing your dissatisfaction.

 

[dontteleport]

Not that it's much help but this morning I noticed there were actually announcements about Brighton's new revenue measures. Not generic ones e.g. "revenue staff routinely patrol our network" but specific ones stating passengers should expect to pass through the gate line to make their connections, and to allow extra time for this. Looks like this will be the norm from now on.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

and to allow extra time for this.

And this is the most outlandish part of it. It's outright saying 'we know this is likely to make you miss your legally valid connection; deal with it as we don't care'

 

[Sonic1234]

And this is the most outlandish part of it. It's outright saying 'we know this is likely to make you miss your legally valid connection; deal with it as we don't care'

The automated delay repay systems won't know this, so customer relations will be dealing with a lot of rejected claims.

The risk to Southern is people thinking if I'm going to be stuck at Brighton station, I may as well be stuck on the A27.

 

[Howardh]

I'm arriving about 4.30pm on Monday with a perfectly valid ticket. What problems am I gonna face going through the barriers, especially as I'll have a large suitcase? I'm exiting, not changing!

 

[ianBR]

Are there any specific byelaws or conditions of travel that state you must follow instructions to exit a station halfway through your journey and re-enter (potentially missing your connection in the process)

If not I’d be tempted to climb through/around any herding fences whilst happily displaying my valid ticket to anyone who wants to see it.

 

[williamn]

Are there any specific byelaws or conditions of travel that state you must follow instructions to exit a station halfway through your journey and re-enter (potentially missing your connection in the process)

If not I’d be tempted to climb through/around any herding fences whilst happily displaying my valid ticket to anyone who wants to see it.

They won't let you - I've tried. If they wanted to be remotely customer friendly they could implement a separate 'lane' for connecting passengers, but clearly they want everyone to use ticket gates because the contract staff aren't really qualified to look at tickets.

 

[DJ_K666]

A friend of mine is Revenue staff on Thameslink (if you're a colleague he's well known as being slightly....eccentric) so I can ask him what's going on. In the past I've had no qualms about barging my way through the queue sideways saying 'come on out the way, got a train to catch'

No chance of that now. Especially when there's only 2 minutes to cross the whole station.

 

[Howardh]

I don't know what the allowable connection time is at Brighton, 10', 15'? but if your train in is delayed and you miss the next one, then delay repay might be in order, but I doubt that's the case if revenue hold you up and you miss your connection. So either the connection mimimum should be increased, or you should be able to claim delay repay. If it's the latter that would concentrate minds on getting pax to their connection and not hold them up.

 

[Flange Squeal]

In other words, if railway staff did the job they are paid to do, there wouldn't be the need to hassle customers at Brighton. On a service with frequent stops at small stations it isn't easy to cover them all, but if passengers are expecting 'a reasonable chance of a ticket check' they are less likely to try their luck.

Or, if people bought tickets like they are supposed to do, there wouldn't be the need to hassle customers anywhere.