Unable to provide rail card proof with purchased ticket

[pringle]

Hi,

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am in panic mode at the moment.
I was travelling from Eynsford to london Blackfriars (Thameslink)with a friend, yesterday I had purchased a ticket to travel which had the rail card option enabled.
We were traveling when the officer asked for my ticket and I produced it. She then asked for the rail card which I thought was routine procedure and I told her I didn't have it on me. My friend was able to provide a digital version a card.
The officer gave me a witness statement receipt and asked me to upload the card onto the portal once I got home.
As soon as I went to do that , I realized that I have only an oyster card which is not the same as the rail card and my friend had a picture of herself on it unlike mine which was just the blue one.
I checked the thameslink site to find assistance to go about this . Unfortunately, there isn't any.
Found this forum and got to know it's not a regular issue anymore. There might be court involved which has gotten me scared.

Unaware of the process at that time, I had asked the officer whether I should buy a new ticket or pay the balance amount. She said that would be unfair to pay extra as I could upload the card later


I have spent hours researching and now know the difference between the cards... Now that I know, I have never been issued a rail card. I usually use oyster and buy paper tickets if required
She said I have 2 weeks to upload the document
- since it has been established that I don't have a rail card, I thought I would buy one and upload that however given the information on the portal and these threads, I can't do that
- from what I understand, I should be receiving a letter from them .
- would that be issued only after two weeks?
- is there anything I could do to help smoothening my process

This is my first time facing this kind of an issue and I've thought of the worst case scenarios which will also affect my career and taint my background checks.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[John R]

You're correct that buying one and uploading it won't work, as you didn't have a valid railcard at the time of your journey. It will certainly do no harm for the next stage of the process (see below) to have purchased one though.

If you don't upload a card within the two week you will be written to (at some stage in the next 6 months), and asked to explain why you were travelling without a valid ticket (as without a railcard your ticket was not valid). GTR (Thameslink) are usually reasonable in terms of offering an out of court settlement if you engage with the process, respond apologetically, explain now you understand you have bought a railcard, and promise to be more careful with rail ticketing in future.

If you purchased your ticket online then you can expect GTR to review your account for any other purchases made with a railcard chosen, and include those tickets in assessing the cost of any settlement offer.

If you receive an offer, you'll usually only have around 14 days to pay, otherwise they will proceed to prosecution, which you certainly don't want.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quick question, what sort of Railcard was involved?

If it was a Network or Disabled Railcard, you would have been able to quite legitimately travel on hers provided you travelled together throughout. Not with other types though.

 

[signed]

The first thing you need to do is get a valid Railcard (https://www.railcard.co.uk/) ASAP

It will show to the TOC that you understand and are willing to learn from your mistake.

This may help you in avoiding getting summoned to court and getting a conviction.

 

[pringle]

Hi,

Thank you for the comments
I didn't not buy a rail card after I read that it would not help buying one to upload it. Most of my travel is done via tube hence the oyster would suffice.

My friend's rail card would be the 26-30 years one, if I am not mistaken.

Would it be preferred that I now but a rail card?

 

[signed]

I didn't not buy a rail card after I read that it would not help buying one to upload it.

For the offense proper, it will not help you

But having one valid now means you understand and you are more likely to get a settlement and not get to court.

 

[pringle]

Thank you, as suggested by you all, I bought a rail card.
I shall keep an eye for the letter.

 

[Haywain]

I bought a rail card.

What railcard have you bought?

 

[pringle]

The 26-30 standard one for a year .
May I know why do you ask this? would the choice of card make a difference?

 

[Haywain]

The 26-30 standard one for a year .
May I know why do you ask this? would the choice of card make a difference?

It makes no difference to your difficulty with GTR. The reason for asking was that you can have a 26-30 Railcard added to your Oyster card for a discount on off-peak PAYG fares but some railcards cannot be added to Oyster.

 

[pringle]

Thank you, I shall add it to my oyster

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2024 ==

May I know ,
For any valid reason, what happens if I don't receive the letter in time/ it is misplaced before it has been delivered to me?
I understand I can email the prosecutions team however this process could take as long as 6 months and I wouldn't know whether it hasn't been delivered or not issued to me yet.

 

[Haywain]

For any valid reason, what happens if I don't receive the letter in time/ it is misplaced before it has been delivered to me?

If it is "misplaced before it has been delivered" then you will be prosecuted but you would have to have also failed to receive a summons or SJPN for that to happen without your knowledge. As long as your correct address has been recorded you will receive a letter but it may take a few weeks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you give the correct address?

 

[WesternLancer]

For any valid reason, what happens if I don't receive the letter in time/ it is misplaced before it has been delivered to me?
I understand I can email the prosecutions team however this process could take as long as 6 months and I wouldn't know whether it hasn't been delivered or not issued to me yet.

It is important / vital you get communication from them and respond to it quickly - and they may send this in hard copy (most likely) or by e-mail - so with the latter check your spam and check any e-mail accounts linked to sites you buy tickets from

If you have reasons to believe your post is unreliable then take steps to resolve that (ie do you think you suffer form post theft eg if you have a communal letter box?) - if you want to test your post post yourself a letter with a 2nd class stamp and see how long it takes to arrive.

If you expect to be away for a period see if a reliable person can check for your post on a regular basis and alert you to post they find for you.

Not being able to respond to what they send you risks missing your chance to request an out of court settlement and increases the prospects of being prosecuted, which you will want to avoid.

 

[pringle]

Thank you all for the responses.
I checked the receipt the officer gave me. The address mentioned is correct. I am a bit worried about this as I live in a part residential part commercial building. Although I do receive my mail at the correct address, there has been a time or two when the mail has been delivered elsewhere and I only got to know about it because I received a delivery message,royal mail. Since there is no way to track this letter, it would be unfortunate if I didn't receive it and am unable to respond in time although I had no intention breaking the rules.

As advised above, I will post a letter to myself just to make sure I've covered all bases.

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you all for the responses.
I checked the receipt the officer gave me. The address mentioned is correct. I am a bit worried about this as I live in a part residential part commercial building. Although I do receive my mail at the correct address, there has been a time or two when the mail has been delivered elsewhere and I only got to know about it because I received a delivery message,royal mail. Since there is no way to track this letter, it would be unfortunate if I didn't receive it and am unable to respond in time although I had no intention breaking the rules.

As advised above, I will post a letter to myself just to make sure I've covered all bases.

Thank you

Thanks - frustrating post situation for you as described. Posting to yourself would be a good test as I suggested, though from what you describe still not a guarantee. With ref to the commercial part of the building are you able to contact them to check every now and again if they get any post for you / the residential part of the building. If you can do that I am sure you of course will.

 

[Hadders]

To add to what others have said, rather than wait for GTR to write to you I would write a short, concise letter to GTR saying that you didn't own a railcard at the time of your journey. I'd also mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- That you have since purchased a 26-30 Railcard for future use
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Upload the letter to the portal where you have been asked to upload your railcard to. I think it's better to be proactive about this rather than it looking like you've simply not bothered to reply.

GTR will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which will keep the matter out of court, as long as you pay it.

 

[John R]

To add to the above, explain that your post is very unreliable, and so you would appreciate it if any correspondence could be to the email you give them. You might wish to somehow make this request stand out, to minimise the chance of it being missed.

 

[pringle]

Upload the letter to the portal where you have been asked to upload your railcard to. I think it's better to be proactive about this rather than it looking like you've simply not bothered to reply.

GTR will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which will keep the matter out of court, as long as you pay it.

Thank you.
I did consider uploading a letter explaining the situation instead and then read the information given on that portal. It is stated that we couldn't use that section to appeal or for mitigation through the form.
Would there be a chance of them getting annoyed if I did it?

 

[Hadders]

Thank you.
I did consider uploading a letter explaining the situation instead and then read the information given on that portal. It is stated that we couldn't use that section to appeal or for mitigation through the form.
Would there be a chance of them getting annoyed if I did it?

I don't think they'd be annoyed. It actually saves GTR having to write to you saying you haven't uploaded your railcard.

The worst that can happen is GTR ignore what you upload and write to you anyway.

 

[pringle]

I have taken all your advice and drafted a letter to upload to the portal resisting the urge to mention every detail. It still looks rather lengthy to me.
I would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

 

[Wolfie]

To add to the above, explain that your post is very unreliable, and so you would appreciate it if any correspondence could be to the email you give them. You might wish to somehow make this request stand out, to minimise the chance of it being missed.

The issue there is that certain correspondence, to comply with legislation, may have to be by snail mail.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I have taken all your advice and drafted a letter to upload to the portal resisting the urge to mention every detail. It still looks rather lengthy to me.
I would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

When you say you bought a ticket "with the railcard option" - which railcard? There isn't something called just "a railcard": there are several of them, and you need to buy the right one depending on the reason that you're eligible for the discount that card enables you to claim (age, disability, etc etc), and then specify which one when buying a ticket. So when you chose a railcard to get the cheaper ticket, it would have been clear what it was called and hence why you were eligible, and none of those railcards could possibly be confused with a regular Oyster card as used for travel in London. So trying to claim that you only later realised [NB "realise", not "realize"] that your Oyster card wasn't appropriate to upload (to demonstrate that you really had the travelcard you'd omitted to carry with you) is unlikely to make sense to the people you're writing to.

If you were in a panic and lied about having "left your railcard behind", rather than admitting you didn't have one and so had a wrongly discounted (and hence invalid) ticket, then be honest with them and say so. They will assume it was perfectly obvious to you that you'd claimed a discount you weren't entitled to. In order to settle this out of court, honesty is important - telling them things which they'll think are implausible won't encourage them to offer an out-of-court settlment, rather than prosecuting in court (which they're entitled to do).

Someone asked you earlier if you'd done this (travelled with a wrongly discounted ticket) before, but I don't think you answered that point. If you always buy electronic tickets, rather than physical tickets, then if you have done, they will of course discover this (online purchases are not "private"; they're recorded and traceable). This means that when they write to you (after you fail to upload a railcard, or - as you intend - write to them pre-emptively to admit you don't have one) they'll be asking about more than just the one journey where you were caught. That would naturally make the situation worse for you, hence the importance of being honest at this stage, to encourage them not to prosecute. (Having said that, you're not required to incriminate yourself, so you can certainly write to them just with reference to the one occasion; however, if it isn't the first time then be very careful not to phrase the letter in a way that implies it is...)

 

[pringle]

Someone asked you earlier if you'd done this (travelled with a wrongly discounted ticket) before

Thank you for the advice. This is first time this has happened and it did probably because a friend of mine helped me get the ticket from the kiosk as I am not privy to the process.
I did buy a few electronic tickets so they will find a ticket history.

---

I do realise that they will assume it was obvious to me what ticket I chose and should have known for what I was paying that amount.
I will work on that letter as I do not want to have to go to court for this mistake.

---

I have a question. On the night of the incident, in a state of panic as I did not have a document to upload to the portal,I used the company site to send them a query asking them if there was anything to be done to solve the issue.
It was only after that that I found this forum and got to know about the prosecution process. What I mentioned there is similar to my letter draft.
If I take responsibility for choosing the incorrect ticket to avail the discount in this letter, would the discrepancy be a problem?

 

[30907]

I have a question. On the night of the incident, in a state of panic as I did not have a document to upload to the portal,I used the company site to send them a query asking them if there was anything to be done to solve the issue.
It was only after that that I found this forum and got to know about the prosecution process. What I mentioned there is similar to my letter draft.
If I take responsibility for choosing the incorrect ticket to avail the discount in this letter, would the discrepancy be a problem?

I doubt it. They are used to people claiming to have railcards they don't own.

The letter/mail will be a standard one, and there is little you can do to speed up the process - you are one of hundreds!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Thank you for the advice. This is first time this has happened and it did probably because a friend of mine helped me get the ticket from the kiosk as I am not privy to the process.
I did buy a few electronic tickets so they will find a ticket history.

---

I do realise that they will assume it was obvious to me what ticket I chose and should have known for what I was paying that amount.
I will work on that letter as I do not want to have to go to court for this mistake.

---

I have a question. On the night of the incident, in a state of panic as I did not have a document to upload to the portal,I used the company site to send them a query asking them if there was anything to be done to solve the issue.
It was only after that that I found this forum and got to know about the prosecution process. What I mentioned there is similar to my letter draft.
If I take responsibility for choosing the incorrect ticket to avail the discount in this letter, would the discrepancy be a problem?

When you say you got the ticket from a kiosk, do you mean a ticket office rather than a ticket machine? If so, then the person selling the ticket would have asked what railcard it was when you tried to buy the ticket with a railcard discount (and might have asked to see the card in fact). Or if you mean a ticket machine, then on that machine you have to press a button naming the railcard before it'll sell the ticket at a discount. Either way, it's impossible to get a railcard discount without knowing what you're doing...

Yes - they will indeed assume it was obvious, and hence that the invalid ticket was bought intentionally. I don't think you can try to tell them it was a mistake because you didn't understand how to buy a ticket!

If all your previous electronic (and hence traceable) rail tickets were above board, and correct for the journey made [is that what you're implying?], then (unless they look dodgy for some reason, even though they weren't), at least that means you're not likely to have additional accusations thrown at you.

 

[pringle]

Thank you for the advice. I will work on my letter accordingly.

 

[pringle]

Hello all,
Just following up my case from July . I had received the letter from GTR in August and with the advice given by you all I responded to them and sent them the letter on 31/08 via recorded delivery which confirmed it was delivered in time . I haven't since received any letter / further communication from them . May I know whether it usually takes this long for them to respond or could something have potentially gone wrong ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello all,
Just following up my case from July . I had received the letter from GTR in August and with the advice given by you all I responded to them and sent them the letter on 31/08 via recorded delivery which confirmed it was delivered in time . I haven't since received any letter / further communication from them . May I know whether it usually takes this long for them to respond or could something have potentially gone wrong ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

That does seem a bit on the slow side. Maybe e mail them what you sent before if you’ve not heard in another week perhaps?

 

[pringle]

I shall do that .. thank you