Southeastern Journey Times

[bgstrowger]

Hello everyone.

I commute daily from Whitstable to Victoria and have noticed gradual increases to my journey time.

Does anyone know where I can find details of timetables from when the Kent Phase 1 electrification was implemented and also timetables from before then?

This is mainly to settle an argument on twitter that journey times to Whitstable are now slower than the days of steam.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Hello everyone.

I commute daily from Whitstable to Victoria and have noticed gradual increases to my journey time.

Does anyone know where I can find details of timetables from when the Kent Phase 1 electrification was implemented and also timetables from before then?

This is mainly to settle an argument on twitter that journey times to Whitstable are now slower than the days of steam.

I've got copies, though they aren't where I am now. I will be able to settle any pre-High Speed vs. now journey times for you when I can pick them up on Sunday.

I could also do times from 1974 and the 80s and 90s now if you liked

 

[Clip]

Hello everyone.

I commute daily from Whitstable to Victoria and have noticed gradual increases to my journey time.

Does anyone know where I can find details of timetables from when the Kent Phase 1 electrification was implemented and also timetables from before then?

This is mainly to settle an argument on twitter that journey times to Whitstable are now slower than the days of steam.

Theres a good chance that they are. Even more so now that the services to Ramsgate generally stop @ Meopham and Longfield now and more services stop @ Teynham and Newington then they did before too.

 

[OxtedL]

I would be a little surprised though. Electric trains have mcuh better acceleration. If they are slower, something is very wrong...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not the train, the timetabling. EMUs would beat steam towards Medway/the Kent Coast hands down, but you find a lot more classic route trains being put behind HS1 trains - also, as said above, Margate trains etc now call at intermediate stations, such as Newington, Meopham and Teynham. Also, times on the Maidstone East and Tonbridge Main Line and down to Hastings via Battle have rocketed. It's all about twisting times to make HS1 looks far superior, and collect the extra money as a result.

 

[OxtedL]

Good point... but still...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Good point... but still...

Still what?

From I would say privatisation to December 2008, Kent had its best timetable ever, faster, more regular services on modernish stock. Dover, Folkestone, Ashford, Margate etc all had trains about 10 mins fater to London than now. Now it is all planned to ensure that if you need to get to London fast, you must get High Speed trains and pay more. Look at Maidstone East-Ramsgate - avoiding shelling out for HS1 leaves you with a 50 mins connection for the sole classic train per hour at Ashford.

 

[OxtedL]

Ok. I resign. Something is very wrong.

 

[Clip]

Ok. I resign. Something is very wrong.

Oh indeed there is.. I believe that in the days of steam you would get margate/ramsgate services that wouldnt even stop at places like Sittingbourne and places like that.

Ive said before on here about how stupid it is to have a service that calls at all 4 medway towns too. Why they do so when there is also a stopper that starts at Gillingham either just before or just after it I do not know.

 

[embers25]

Non-Hi Speed services were slowed down to ensure that Hi-Speed was still just faster than them from Faversham and so they coud justify the supplement. Similarly Maidstone East trains in peak have been dramatically slowed but fear not as you can now use Hi Speed from Maidstone West and take exactly the same tme to reach London (if not longer) than it used to take from East before Hi Speed. Even Ashford trains were slowed dramatically so they could claim bigger journey time savings when in reality compared to the old peak fasts the savings are not that great. It's all a con to try to justify the supplements on HS1

 

[junglejames]

London to Folkestone Ctrl would have been around 1hr 15mins before HS1. It only took 1hr to get to Ashford, and the fast ones were then non stop to Folkestone.
Now its a knats hair under 1hr 30mins to Westenhanger, then about another 10 mins at least to Ctrl. It really does take the biscuit that there are no longer any fast trains along the Tonbridge Mainline.

Admittedly on the whole, the change in timetable usually benefits me (2 trains per hour off peak from Westenhanger, and im in St Pancras in 1hr, then no tube needed to get to Euston or Kings Cross, which are my usual destinations).

However there is no denying that apart from some stations getting extra services, the timetable is awful.

 

[bgstrowger]

I've got copies, though they aren't where I am now. I will be able to settle any pre-High Speed vs. now journey times for you when I can pick them up on Sunday.

I could also do times from 1974 and the 80s and 90s now if you liked

Thanks, that sounds interesting

Certainly, it would be interesting to compare journey times and stopping patterns over the years, just so I could blind management with stats at the next Meet the Manager session.

From what digging I did, the 1959 timetable looks good. From VIC, stopping only at stopping at BMS, CTM, GLM, where the train spilt and then the RAM section then running fast to WHI.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Ok, can't do it right now but I'll get 74, 80s and 90s comparisons for you tomorrow afternoon on key Kent routes

 

[Mintona]

Look at Maidstone East-Ramsgate - avoiding shelling out for HS1 leaves you with a 50 mins connection for the sole classic train per hour at Ashford.

Except you can use the high speed service from Ashford to Ramsgate without paying a supplement. And there are still two mainline trains an hour to Ramsgate from Ashford as well.

Still, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Except you can use the high speed service from Ashford to Ramsgate without paying a supplement. And there are still two mainline trains an hour to Ramsgate from Ashford as well.

Still, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Apologies. I would never knowingly put an untruth into a 'rant' without knwoing otherwise. It's also good to know that you can get HS trains at now extra cost down there.

 

[LE Greys]

Would extra stops be an issue? The only definite "slower than steam" journey I know of is Exeter Central-Waterloo, and that is because the ACE used to stop only at Salisbury on the way.

 

[Clip]

Would extra stops be an issue? The only definite "slower than steam" journey I know of is Exeter Central-Waterloo, and that is because the ACE used to stop only at Salisbury on the way.

Well they are as im sure(correct me if im wron) but even the off peak southeastern services from ramsgate & dover that joined at faversham that never stopped @ meopham and long field were a little wuicker if only by minutes. Then add on the teynham and newington stops that some do that were stops on teh trains that used to start at faversham all adds up

 

[bgstrowger]

Well they are as im sure(correct me if im wron) but even the off peak southeastern services from ramsgate & dover that joined at faversham that never stopped @ meopham and long field were a little wuicker if only by minutes. Then add on the teynham and newington stops that some do that were stops on teh trains that used to start at faversham all adds up

The extra stops inserted in have made a huge difference. Digging out a pre-December 2009 timetable, the train I catch home now takes 1hr 35mins, as opposed to 1hr 26mins. The service now has stops at LGF, MEP and RTR, whereas before it ran fast to CTM from BMS.