Travel Incident Report?

[3daystrain]

Hi,

Today I was trying to get the train to Deansgate Manchester from Urmston this morning and as the train is cancelled most days I don’t buy my ticket until I’m on the platform. I was trying to buy my anytime return ticket and it was not going through on Trainline, I realised it was because it was too close to the time of the train departing so went to the next time of the train and bought the same ticket. I tried to pay before I got on the train and felt a vibration on Apple Pay so thought it went through. I sat down and realised it hadn’t so used a different card to pay for the ticket again - my Trainline Confirmation email is for 1min after the train departed. I showed the inspector my ticket and railcard and he asked me why I had purchased the ticket after I had got on the train I then explained the above.
He then said he was giving me a TIR and it isn’t a fine but I’ll get a letter in the post.
I asked why and he said because I got on the train without a valid ticket. I asked why that was a problem as I see people buy their ticket from the conductor on that exact train all the time and he said it’s because he’s a revenue officer and that’s what they do and the conductor can issue tickets on the service. This is what doesn’t make sense to me as why isn’t different rules depending on the person on the train?

What can I expect in the post as if this isn’t a fine as he said is it just a warning or something that will cost money?

Thank you for reading!

 

[island]

Why didn't you buy a ticket from the ticket office or ticket machine at Deansgate?

 

[3daystrain]

Why didn't you buy a ticket from the ticket office or ticket machine at Deansgate?

Because the ticket machine is outside the barrier after I would have left.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because the ticket machine is outside the barrier after I would have left.

It may be he means Urmston - where you began your journey. There is a ticket office and machine there, so there is no excuse not to purchase a ticket unless they were both out of order or otherwise inaccessible.

The rules and the law are actually the same regardless of whether you come across the guard or a revenue protection inspector - but only the latter can usually report you for prosecution, which is what has happened here.

It is likely the company will settle for £100 plus the fare due.

 

[3daystrain]

It may be he means Urmston - where you began your journey. There is a ticket office and machine there, so there is no excuse not to purchase a ticket unless they were both out of order or otherwise inaccessible.

The rules and the law are actually the same regardless of whether you come across the guard or a revenue protection inspector - but only the latter can usually report you for prosecution, which is what has happened here.

It is likely the company will settle for £100 plus the fare due.

Why would he tell me it’s not a fine when issuing it? Also why is it that any other day I would’ve been able to buy a ticket on the train?

 

[jfollows]

Why would he tell me it’s not a fine when issuing it? Also why is it that any other day I would’ve been able to buy a ticket on the train?

A TIR isn't a fine, it's a report which will lead to a letter which could lead to a prosecution and a criminal record (and a fine), but if you come back here for advice when you get the letter we can help you respond in the aim of agreeing a settlement which will avoid a fine and a criminal record. If so, you'll end up paying them some money. But it won't be a fine.

It's a criminal offence to board a train without a ticket, minus a couple of valid excuses which probably won't apply here, and buying a ticket on the train means that you boarded the train without a ticket.

We're here to help you, but we won't lie to you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2024 ==

See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

6.1 You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was
the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:
6.1.1 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or a self-service Ticket machine
is not in working order, or will not accept your only available method of payment
(card or cash); and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from
that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel
issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for
more information about Penalty Fares; or
6.1.2 The station is staffed, and you are specifically permitted to board a train service
by an authorised member of staff, or you have received a written notice or heard
an audible announcement to this effect; or
6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, because
6.1.3.1 the Ticket office is closed; or
6.1.3.2 a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not
accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or
6.1.3.3 You have a disability and Ticket purchasing arrangements at the
station you are departing from are not accessible to you.
In these cases, you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate
Ticket to complete your journey. The price of the Ticket you purchase will be the same
as if you had bought a Ticket at the station from which you first departed.

The fact that many times you are able to buy a ticket on the train, to the extent that you become accustomed to doing so, doesn't get round the problem that it's an offence on the one time they decide to pick you up for it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why would he tell me it’s not a fine when issuing it? Also why is it that any other day I would’ve been able to buy a ticket on the train?

Because it is not a fine. It could lead to your prosecution for the criminal offence you committed (this is a specific bylaw offence).

However it is likely the company will settle anyway for £100 plus the fare due.

You do have to have a ticket before boarding the train.

 

[MotCO]

It's a criminal offence to board a train without a ticket, minus a couple of valid excuses which probably won't apply here, and buying a ticket on the train means that you boarded the train without a ticket.

It is probably worth saying that boarding a train without a ticket is a 'strict liability' offence - there is no argument about whether or not you intended getting on a train without a ticket, the fact is that you did.

It may sound somewhat bizarre, but presumably it is to avoid people only buying a ticket when the inspector comes through, and hoping to get away without buying a ticket (not that I am suggesting this applies to you).