Notice of intention to prosecute URGENT HELP

[vickerw]

Hi,

I got a letter from thameslink with a notice of intention to prosecute, stating they're considering taking my case to the magistrates court then they listed the penalties, they said they'll give me the opportunity to explain myself and that was it.


I thought the case was dropped as its been over a month and I got the letter on Friday.


So I had an event on early June, I'm from London studying in Brighton usually when I come back to London a family member pays for my trip, I asked my brother via WhatsApp, to send me the money for the ticket as I was unsure whether I'd have enough for the event from my personal bank account.

I normally buy my tickets at the station so I get the next available train, at the station I thought I had forgotten my ID so I bought a ticket back to my accommodation scanned my ticket then went to the platforms that were headinh to my local station to check if I had my ID. After I realised I had it, in my haste, I quickly boarded on the train I had, to take deciding I would pay as I got onto the train.

As I sat down I kept trying to look for other personal belongings ensuring i didn't forget anything, I then I realised I had forgotten to pay, so I tried to pay when I was on the train, an inspector came I told her about the situation, I've never been in this position before so I was under stress and pressure my explanation wasn't as clear because of that and she then decided to take my details I think she assumed I tried to just buy the. Tickets to go past barriers.

This is taking a toll on my mental health as lt could ruin my life I'm about to enter my final year of law degree and I can't allow this to ruin my future I'm scared and anxious I need urgent help please

 

[Titfield]

This is very difficult to understand.

Did you have a ticket yes or no? If you had a ticket what ticket was it?

 

[simonw]

Hi I got a letter from thameslink of notice of intention to prosecute stating they're considering taking my case to the magistrates court then they listed the penalties they said they'll give me the opportunity to explain myself and that was it
I thought the case was dropped as its been over a month and I got the letter on Friday
So I had an event on early June

I'm from London studying in Brighton usually when I come back to London a family member pays for my trip I asked my brother to send me money for the ticket via whatsapp as I was unsure whether I'd have enough for the event from my account

I normally buy my tickets at the station so I get the next available train, at the station I thought I had forgotten my ID so I bought a ticket. Back to my accommodation scanned my ticket then went to the platform to check after I realised I had it I quickly boarded on the train I had to take
Completely forgetting to check if my brother had sent the money for the ticket and paying the fare as I sat down I kept trying to look for other personal belongings ensuring i didn't forget anything then I saw inspectors and realised I had forget to pay the fare I've never been in this position before so I was under stress and pressure my explanation wasn't as clear because of that and she then decided to take my details I think she assumed I tried to just buy the. Tickets to go past barriers.

This is taking a toll on my mental health as lt could ruin my life I'm about to enter my final year of law degree and I can't allow this to ruin my future I'm scared and anxious I need urgent help please

Could you please post a copy of the letter you received with identifying information covered.

You may also want to rewrite your post, so we can understand exactly what happened.

Whilst I understand this is a distressing situation and your post reflects that distress, it doesn't bode well if you are studying law and you do not write in a style that is easily understood.

 

[Hadders]

Can you tell us:

Which stations were you travelling from and to?
Did you buy a ticket before you boarded the train?
If you did purchase a ticket did it cover your whole journey? Was it purchased before you boarded the train? Were there any discounts applied to it eg child or a railcard? If so do you possess the relevent valid railcard?
If you didn't purchase a ticket how did you get through the barriers at your starting station?

 

[vickerw]

Could you please post a copy of the letter you received with identifying information covered.

You may also want to rewrite your post, so we can understand exactly what happened.

Whilst I understand this is a distressing situation and your post reflects that distress, it doesn't bode well if you are studying law and you do not write in a style that is easily understood.

I do not have my phone at the moment, I'm using my mother's who uses tne french language as her main keyboard .... hence why the spelling and grammar mistakes

 

[Snow1964]

Sorry this doesn't make sense, you said you bought a ticket, then popped back to your home, then went and boarded the train. Then start talking about your brother buying tickets.

So did you buy a ticket for a train, if so was it for specific train but you got later one. Or did you not actually get a ticket.

I'm not aware of being able to buy tickets on WhatsApp, so was this some sort of scam site selling pretend tickets

 

[vickerw]

Can you tell us:

Which stations were you travelling from and to?
Did you buy a ticket before you boarded the train?
If you did purchase a ticket did it cover your whole journey? Was it purchased before you boarded the train? Were there any discounts applied to it eg child or a railcard? If so do you possess the relevent valid railcard?
If you didn't purchase a ticket how did you get through the barriers at your starting station?

Travelling from Brighton to London Bridge

Bought my ticket to my accommodation before I boarded the train to London. It didn't cover the whole journey as I didn't take the train to Falmer (my accommodation) because I had found my ID in my bag and tried to rush to get the last train I could to London for my event completely assuming I had paid the fare

In brighton the platforms are all on one side of the station so you can go on any train after you've gone past the barriers

 

[30907]

Travelling from Brighton to London Bridge

Bought my ticket to my accommodation before I boarded the train to London. It didn't cover the whole journey as I didn't take the train to Falmer (my accommodation) because I had found my ID in my bag and tried to rush to get the last train I could to London for my event completely assuming I had paid the fare

In brighton the platforms are all on one side of the station so you can go on any train after you've gone past the barriers

So you bought a ticket to Falmer and used it to get through the barriers but boarded a train to London. Correct?

Did you then try to buy a ticket to London immediately you were on the train?

Roughly when did the inspector reach you?

 

[vickerw]

Sorry this doesn't make sense, you said you bought a ticket, then popped back to your home, then went and boarded the train. Then start talking about your brother buying tickets.

So did you buy a ticket for a train, if so was it for specific train but you got later one. Or did you not actually get a ticket.

I'm not aware of being able to buy tickets on WhatsApp, so was this some sort of scam site selling pretend tickets

No, I bought a ticket at Brighton station intending to go back to my accommodation as I, had thought I left my ID at my accommodation (Falmer ) so I went past the barriers using that ticket as I decided its best to go to my accommodation to check it, I then checked again on the platforms and had found it in my bag in my haste I rushed to get the last train to London completely forgetting to check if my brother had sent the money to my account in order to purchase a ticket to London I realised I forgot to pay whilst being on the train, The inspector came to me I explained the situation but she decided to note it down for further review. I gave her my details she told me they'd contact me in 2-3 weeks and if I don't respond they'd escalate it to prosecution

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Doubt it would be particuiarly good for a law student's career prospects to be prosecuted and convicted in court for what appears to be a fairly clear case of fare evasion.

Presume the train company involved here is Govia Thameslink, so what are the chances of the OP negotiating an "out of court settlement" being the sum of the unpaid fare (= £30.40?) plus the usual three figure sum towards GTR's investigation and admin costs?

 

[vickerw]

So you bought a ticket to Falmer and used it to get through the barriers but boarded a train to London. Correct?

Did you then try to buy a ticket to London immediately you were on the train?

Roughly when did the inspector reach you?

Yes forgetting to pay the fare, that's when I tried to buy a ticket, I told the inspector and she told me it wouldn't be valid anyway, it was like 3 - 4 stops after I boarded the train to London

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Doubt it would be particuiarly good for a law student's career prospects to be prosecuted and convicted in court for what appears to be a fairly clear case of fare evasion.

Presume the train company involved here is Govia Thameslink, so what are the chances of the OP negotiating an "out of court settlement" being the sum of the unpaid fare (= £30.40?) plus the usual three figure sum towards GTR's investigation and admin costs?

Yes it's thameslink, only evidence I have to show I didn't intend to evade the fare was asking my brother to pay for my fare to London I have the WhatsApp message I screenshotted it on the day

 

[WesternLancer]

Whilst all the details and reasons for not having the correct ticket are noted despite the lack of clarity I would simply advise the op to :

A) look at a few other cases here involving southern or thameslink to get an idea of what to do.

b) see the standard format for an apology letter as posted by @Hadders on many threads which is always good advice.

C) draft up a letter along those lines and post the draft here so people can help get it right. Most or even all of the complicated reasons for not having a ticket do Not need to be mentioned in great detail as the railway won’t care much. They just want you to never make such mistakes again.

Hope this helps in terms of advice on what to do.

Whilst we do say every case on here is different it seems to me that what you need to do about it is often not that different and I think this applies in this case.

 

[vickerw]

Whilst all the details and reasons for not having the correct ticket are noted despite the lack of clarity I would simply advise the op to :

A) look at a few other cases here involving southern or thameslink to get an idea of what to do.

b) see the standard format for an apology letter as posted by @Hadders on many threads which is always good advice.

C) draft up a letter along those lines and post the draft here so people can help get it right. Most or none of the complicated reasons for not having a ticket need to be mentioned in great detail as the railway won’t care much. They just want you to never make such mistakes again.

Hope this helps in terms of advice on what to do.

Whilst we do say every case on here is different it seems to me that what you need to do about it is often not that different and I think this applies in this case.

I've edited the scenario, sorry, even typing is just giving me anxiety

 

[vickerw]

This is the letter

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==

Whilst all the details and reasons for not having the correct ticket are noted despite the lack of clarity I would simply advise the op to :

A) look at a few other cases here involving southern or thameslink to get an idea of what to do.

b) see the standard format for an apology letter as posted by @Hadders on many threads which is always good advice.

C) draft up a letter along those lines and post the draft here so people can help get it right. Most or even all of the complicated reasons for not having a ticket do Not need to be mentioned in great detail as the railway won’t care much. They just want you to never make such mistakes again.

Hope this helps in terms of advice on what to do.

Whilst we do say every case on here is different it seems to me that what you need to do about it is often not that different and I think this applies in this case.

Thank you, I’ll draft one now and send it through for advice, I’m really panicking the inspector seemed pretty lenient so I thought I’d be fined but I guess it needed further review.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is the letter

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Thank you, I’ll draft one now and send it through for advice, I’m really panicking the inspector seemed pretty lenient so I thought I’d be fined but I guess it needed further review.

Do not panic.

Take a little time to get reply good as it can be over next couple of days

This is their standard letter. Designed to make you understand it’s serious and you must not ignore it.

For whatever reason the inspector opted not to issue you with a Penalty Fare which is a more lenient option but no easy way to know why they did not do that.

Follow advice here and very strong prospect of avoiding being prosecuted I would suggest.

 

[Hadders]

I'm still struggling to understand exactly what happened but Govia Thameslink Railway are generally one of the more reasonable train companies to deal with in cases like this. I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Try not to complicate the reply by mentioning forgetting ID etc. It's not really relevent to your case. Post up a draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[vickerw]

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute dated xxxxxx I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on xxxxxx and respectfully request your consideration of my case.



On the day in question, I needed to travel to London for an event and had to bring my ID. I purchased a ticket to travel to [Station Name] to check if I had left my ID there. After finding my ID at the station, I boarded the train to London. Before boarding, I had asked my brother to send me money for the correct fare to London to ensure I had enough funds for the event and my travel back home.



In the rush and confusion, I forgot to purchase the ticket. While on the train, I realized my mistake and attempted to pay for the fare using the funds my brother sent me, but the inspector informed me that it would not be valid at that point.





I am deeply sorry for what has happened. I understand the importance of having a valid ticket for the entire journey, and I sincerely regret this oversight.



This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring that I have the correct ticket before traveling. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will take extra care to avoid such mistakes in the future.



I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.



To further support my explanation, I have attached the following evidence: (screenshot of the message and the money transfer)



Given these circumstances and my cooperation with the inspector, I kindly request that you consider this explanation and evidence. I hope we can resolve this matter amicably.

Yours sincerely,

 

[WesternLancer]

For future ref be aware you can buy tickets from any station to any other station irrespective of changes required. Eg one ticket to cover Falmer to London Bridge

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Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute dated xxxxxx I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on xxxxxx and respectfully request your consideration of my case.



On the day in question, I needed to travel to London for an event and had to bring my ID. I purchased a ticket to travel to [Station Name] to check if I had left my ID there. After finding my ID at the station, I boarded the train to London. Before boarding, I had asked my brother to send me money for the correct fare to London to ensure I had enough funds for the event and my travel back home.



In the rush and confusion, I forgot to purchase the ticket. While on the train, I realized my mistake and attempted to pay for the fare using the funds my brother sent me, but the inspector informed me that it would not be valid at that point.





I am deeply sorry for what has happened. I understand the importance of having a valid ticket for the entire journey, and I sincerely regret this oversight.



This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring that I have the correct ticket before traveling. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will take extra care to avoid such mistakes in the future.



I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.



To further support my explanation, I have attached the following evidence: (screenshot of the message and the money transfer)



Given these circumstances and my cooperation with the inspector, I kindly request that you consider this explanation and evidence. I hope we can resolve this matter amicably.

Yours sincerely,

Ok. Now pause for 24 hours to let people comment on and help improve draft. No need to get anxious!

 

[vickerw]

For future ref be aware you can buy tickets from any station to any other station irrespective of changes required. Eg one ticket to cover Falmer to London Bridge

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==


Ok. Now pause for 24 hours to let people comment on and help improve draft. No need to get anxious!

I’m just worried that’s all, when I’m worried I’m a bit impulsive, like I said I’ve never had this happen before, never been in trouble by authorities so that’s why I’m just a little anxious and hope to resolve the issue as fast as I can

But thank you I do appreciate all the help regardless

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==

For future ref be aware you can buy tickets from any station to any other station irrespective of changes required. Eg one ticket to cover Falmer to London Bridge

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==


Ok. Now pause for 24 hours to let people comment on and help improve draft. No need to get anxious!

Does the timing of the ticket matter when I buy it ? because I don’t understand why it would still be invalid if the ticket states that I’m going to let’s say, London

 

[simonw]

I do not have my phone at the moment, I'm using my mother's who uses tne french language as her main keyboard .... hence why the spelling and grammar mistakes

I wasn't questioning the grammar and spelling, more the layout of events. A key skill in law.

 

[vickerw]

I wasn't questioning the grammar and spelling, more the layout of events. A key skill in law.

Ok so are you here to give me the feedback I need especially after I’ve revised the scenario like everyone else has or continue to act unnecessarily passive aggressive?

 

[simonw]

I’m just worried that’s all, when I’m worried I’m a bit impulsive, like I said I’ve never had this happen before, never been in trouble by authorities so that’s why I’m just a little anxious and hope to resolve the issue as fast as I can

But thank you I do appreciate all the help regardless

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==


Does the timing of the ticket matter when I buy it ? because I don’t understand why it would still be invalid if the ticket states that I’m going to let’s say, London

Because you bought it after boarding the train, not before as required. It also looks to the inspector like you bought it when challenged.

 

[vickerw]

No I tried to buy it before, it didn’t go through as I entered the details wrongly, I didn’t try to buy it at the moment I was challenged

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I tweaked the draft a little bit so this is the respective finished draft.

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute dated xxxxxx I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on xxxxxx and respectfully request your consideration of my case.



On the day in question, I needed to travel to London for an event and had to bring my ID. I purchased a ticket to travel to [Station Name] to check if I had left my ID there. After finding my ID at the station, I boarded the train to London. Before boarding, I had asked my brother to send me money for the correct fare to London to ensure I had enough funds for the event and my travel back home. Unfortunately, in the rush and stress of the situation, I overlooked purchasing the correct ticket before boarding the train, so In the rush and confusion, I forgot to purchase the ticket. While on the train, I realized my mistake and attempted to pay for the fare using my own funds as my brother didn’t send it in time, I showed the inspector but the inspector informed me that it would not be valid at that point.





I am deeply sorry for what has happened. I understand the importance of having a valid ticket for the entire journey, and I sincerely regret this oversight. This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring that I have the correct ticket before traveling. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will take extra care to avoid such mistakes in the future. I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.

To further support my explanation, I have attached the following evidence: (screenshot of the message)



Given these circumstances and my cooperation with the inspector, I kindly request that you consider this explanation and evidence. I hope we can resolve this matter amicably.



Yours sincerely,

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m just worried that’s all, when I’m worried I’m a bit impulsive, like I said I’ve never had this happen before, never been in trouble by authorities so that’s why I’m just a little anxious and hope to resolve the issue as fast as I can

But thank you I do appreciate all the help regardless

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==


Does the timing of the ticket matter when I buy it ? because I don’t understand why it would still be invalid if the ticket states that I’m going to let’s say, London

Timing affects price in general terms

But ref this case you MUST buy your ticket and have it available to show before you step on board a train (apart from rare cases where there is no ticket office or ticket machine at the station you board at). Failure to do thus is an automatic offence.

If you buy the ticket on line from your train seat after boarding the inspector’s ticket scanner will detect purchase after train departure and they will inform you the ticket was not valid. Then these sorts of consequences follow.

This is because deliberate fare evaders travel with no ticket until they see an inspector coming along the carriage and only then buy a ticket. That is called ‘pay when challenged’.

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Ok so are you here to give me the feedback I need especially after I’ve revised the scenario like everyone else has or continue to act unnecessarily passive aggressive?

People are trying to help you. However anxious you are it is always good to pause and re read your post and think ‘will someone who reads this understand what I’m trying to say’ and in the case of your opening post it’s not the clearest. I think that is the point being made.

If people here can’t understand things then the the officials at the railway probably won’t be able to either.

 

[vickerw]

Timing affects price in general terms

But ref this case you MUST buy your ticket and have it available to show before you step on board a train (apart from rare cases where there is no ticket office or ticket machine at the station you board at). Failure to do thus is an automatic offence.

If you buy the ticket on line from your train seat after boarding the inspector’s ticket scanner will detect purchase after train departure and they will inform you the ticket was not valid. Then these sorts of consequences follow.

This is because deliberate fare evaders travel with no ticket until they see an inspector coming along the carriage and only then buy a ticket. That is called ‘pay when challenged’.

Oh ok, I see, thank you

She asked me if I had any ticket and I showed her the one I bought to go to my local station then she scanned it

 

[Haywain]

Yes it's thameslink, only evidence I have to show I didn't intend to evade the fare was asking my brother to pay for my fare to London

In passing an opportunity to pay at Brighton station (the ticket office) and using another ticket to pass through the barriers it is easy for Thameslink to demonstrate that you did intend to evade the fare. The fact that you were asking your brother to pay also suggests that you did not have the means to pay for the fare. All this would give them a compelling case if they chose to prosecute you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Oh ok, I see, thank you

She asked me if I had any ticket and I showed her the one I bought to go to my local station then she scanned it

If you think you may have had a valid ticket then you probably need to list out the different trains you took that day on the overall journey. List or show all the tickets you had. State on what train your ticket was challenged and roughly what time or ideally upload copies of the tickets so we can see them.

He his will make events clear.

But it sounds like you did not have a paid for ticket at the time you boarded the train from Brighton to London. But do correct me if I am wrong.

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In passing an opportunity to pay at Brighton station (the ticket office) and using another ticket to pass through the barriers it is easy for Thameslink to demonstrate that you did intend to evade the fare. The fact that you were asking your brother to pay also suggests that you did not have the means to pay for the fare. All this would give them a compelling case if they chose to prosecute you.

Yes I agree. Clearly put.

 

[vickerw]

In passing an opportunity to pay at Brighton station (the ticket office) and using another ticket to pass through the barriers it is easy for Thameslink to demonstrate that you did intend to evade the fare. The fact that you were asking your brother to pay also suggests that you did not have the means to pay for the fare. All this would give them a compelling case if they chose to prosecute you.

no I asked him to cover me (just in case) I wouldn’t have enough funds for my night out, I had the funds she asked me and I told her and I tried to pay it then when she came and I showed her she said it wouldn’t be valid

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This is because deliberate fare evaders travel with no ticket until they see an inspector coming along the carriage and only then buy a ticket. That is called ‘pay when challenged’.

We've seen previous occasions where persons travelling from Brighton to London Bridge have used a local ticket to get through the barriers at Brighton before then buying another ticket from say East Croydon to London Bridge (to get through the barriers there) but didn't also have a valid ticket for the inbetween part of the journey. Not saying that this is what happened here, but presumably inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any previous instances of tickets having been purchased between Brighton and Falmer, and, for the same day, somewhere in South London to London Bridge, but nothing inbetween.

Ok so are you here to give me the feedback I need especially after I’ve revised the scenario like everyone else has or continue to act unnecessarily passive aggressive?

Some on here might say that your explanation of the circumstances when you were stopped has the hallmarks of a fare-evader attempting to road test a plausible excuse. This may, or may not, be correct. Either way, you now need to positively engage with Govia Thameslink as you really don't want to find yourself in court, where, in all likelihood, from what you've now told us, you'll be found guilty and end up with a conviction.

 

[vickerw]

If you think you may have had a valid ticket then you probably need to list out the different trains you took that day on the overall journey. List or show all the tickets you had. State on what train your ticket was challenged and roughly what time or ideally upload copies of the tickets so we can see them.

He his will make events clear.

But it sounds like you did not have a paid for ticket at the time you boarded the train from Brighton to London. But do correct me if I am wrong.

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Yes I agree. Clearly put.

I only took the train to London I didn’t need to take the train back to my accommodation because I had found my ID whilst I was looking for it at the station

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==

We've seen previous occasions where persons travelling from Brighton to London Bridge have used a local ticket to get through the barriers at Brighton before then buying another ticket from say East Croydon to London Bridge (to get through the barriers there) but didn't also have a valid ticket for the inbetween part of the journey. Not saying that this is what happened here, but presumably inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any previous instances of tickets having been purchased between Brighton and Falmer, and, for the same day, somewhere in South London to London Bridge, but nothing inbetween.


Some on here might say that your explanation of the circumstances when you were stopped has the hallmarks of a fare-evader attempting to road test a plausible excuse. This may, or may not be correct. Either way, you now need to positively engage with Govia Thameslink as you really don't want to find yourself in court, where, in all likelihood, from what you've now told us, you'll be found guilty and end up with a conviction.

Nope my online ticket history is fine, it was only one day where I thought I’d be going to London but my friend cancelled it I bought a ticket to meet her in King’s Cross but was going to travel to London via coach then meet her at King’s Cross so it may look a bit dodgey considering I didn’t request a refund on that one as I thought it was the only 2/3 pounds so I just left it at that. Other than that I haven’t got any instances of anything similar

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2024 ==

We've seen previous occasions where persons travelling from Brighton to London Bridge have used a local ticket to get through the barriers at Brighton before then buying another ticket from say East Croydon to London Bridge (to get through the barriers there) but didn't also have a valid ticket for the inbetween part of the journey. Not saying that this is what happened here, but presumably inspection of your online ticket purchasing history won't show any previous instances of tickets having been purchased between Brighton and Falmer, and, for the same day, somewhere in South London to London Bridge, but nothing inbetween.


Some on here might say that your explanation of the circumstances when you were stopped has the hallmarks of a fare-evader attempting to road test a plausible excuse. This may, or may not, be correct. Either way, you now need to positively engage with Govia Thameslink as you really don't want to find yourself in court, where, in all likelihood, from what you've now told us, you'll be found guilty and end up with a conviction.

So even if I show evidence of asking my brother to send the funds for my ticket to London that wouldn’t at least be enough ?