Remaining Effects of Covid

[AM9]

That's very odd, as it's no longer normal to get a COVID test. What sort of number are you talking about?

I doubt it's worth the resources this would consume. What would your purpose be; to suppress endemic equilibrium to increase the severity of outbreaks?

Who is angry?

In February this year I did an LFT as I was going to see somebody just before they were admitted for a procedure. To my surprise, the second red line came up almost immediately so I self-isolated for 5 days. It also tested positive the next day and very faintly on day 5, clearing on day 6. I really don't like taking those tests so it wasn't on some sort of whim. Had I had vaccinations, - yes five at that time but I still thought it necessary to check in the interests of another person, even if it only prevented their procedure being postponed. In my view, the continued availability of LFT kits is a good thing and ISTR, £2 per test is not a reason to refuse to test.

 

[Richard Scott]

In February this year I did an LFT as I was going to see somebody just before they were admitted for a procedure. To my surprise, the second red line came up almost immediately so I self-isolated for 5 days. It also tested positive the next day and very faintly on day 5, clearing on day 6. I really don't like taking those tests so it wasn't on some sort of whim. Had I had vaccinations, - yes five at that time but I still thought it necessary to check in the interests of another person, even if it only prevented their procedure being postponed. In my view, the continued availability of LFT kits is a good thing and ISTR, £2 per test is not a reason to refuse to test.

Hope you tested for any other illnesses that you may have had before you went back out into the big wide world? Can't be too careful!

 

[AM9]

Hope you tested for any other illnesses that you may have had before you went back out into the big wide world? Can't be too careful!

COVID was around at the time (hospitals would refuse admissions for scheduled procedures) and in consideration for another person's treatment, it was a simple act, - one that was actually worthwhile in my case. Of course I accept that there many who wouldn't give such consideration, that's their choice.

 

[Richard Scott]

COVID was around at the time (hospitals would refuse admissions for scheduled procedures) and in consideration for another person's treatment, it was a simple act, - one that was actually worthwhile in my case. Of course I accept that there many who wouldn't give such consideration, that's their choice.

Possibly counterproductive, people do a test, it's clear so think that's fine when have something else that could cause another person issues. There's more than one illness around and we don't test for those so why concentrate on just one?

 

[nw1]

I do what I have always done. If I feel well, I get on with my life. If I feel unwell, I stay at home until I feel well enough to go out.

Common-sense advice.

If people want to test, that's absolutely fine - but people shouldn't feel socially pressured to do so every time they have the sniffles and feel a bit run-down.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2024 ==

Yes. But with flu you know you have it and usually don't want to go out, whereas Covid affects different people differently. For some it's little more than a mild cold, for others it requires hospitalisation. So, folk with mild symptoms test themselves just in case.

As others have said this isn't necessarily the case. I had this horrendous thing in December 1999 which I think I caught off a friend who just had a moderate cold. I ended up in bed over Christmas with the worst symptoms I've ever had in my adult life, before or since; I've never been that unwell since I was a child.

And I was a fit twenty-something at the time.

 

[ainsworth74]

Possibly counterproductive, people do a test, it's clear so think that's fine when have something else that could cause another person issues. There's more than one illness around and we don't test for those so why concentrate on just one?

Because I believe, from reading @AM9's post, that a positive test for Covid would have prevented the person from being admitted to hospital. Therefore it was sensible to test to ensure that their hospital appointment would not be derailed by @AM9 visiting them beforehand. Questions could be asked as to why the hospital required testing for Covid but not other infectious diseases but it seems quite sensible in the scenario described to take a test to avoid a friend having treatment delayed no?

 

[Dent]

COVID was around at the time (hospitals would refuse admissions for scheduled procedures) and in consideration for another person's treatment, it was a simple act, - one that was actually worthwhile in my case. Of course I accept that there many who wouldn't give such consideration, that's their choice.

In you post you said that you not only avoided meeting that one individual but also self-isolated for five days. Why was that necessary, and how did that help that individual?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It does seem a great pity that so many people have seemingly forgotten the one somewhat positive piece of scientific information that came out during the pandemic, though it would have already been known by anyone who bothered to read up on the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1917-1920. Namely that when a virus jumps to a new population, however virulent or infectious it may be to start with, over time it will inevitably mutate into a milder form which is less virulent and less infectious.

As far as Covid-19 is concerned it does appear that current variants are much less virulent as we don't have hospitals overwhelmed with very sick Covid patients. What is less clear is how infectious current variants are, though such information is probably not worth spending much time or money on to find out. But so many people are still reacting to any mention of Covid-19 with much the same dread as they did 4 years ago despite such a reaction now being somewhat misguided. It seems that political leaders are still unwilling to demonstrate useful leadership by communicating the realities to the wider population.

 

[Blindtraveler]

We could see the governmental messaging on this change. However, however that change could well be given the attitude of the now ruling labour party and its leader during the worst of it that he wants lots of mini lockdowns every now and again

 

[ainsworth74]

We could see the governmental messaging on this change.

We could, but we won't.

However, however that change could well be given the attitude of the now ruling labour party and its leader during the worst of it that he wants lots of mini lockdowns every now and again

The world has moved and so has the Labour party quite clearly.

I feel sometimes as if there are two sides who are stuck in 2020/21. One side which very focussed on Covid and it's risks (even where none exist), and one side which is very focussed on the slightest hint of a restriction being imposed (to the point they make such things up). Meanwhile most people have just moved on with their lives and don't bother refighting the same tired battles.

 

[Busaholic]

The world has moved and so has the Labour party quite clearly.

I feel sometimes as if there are two sides who are stuck in 2020/21. One side which very focussed on Covid and it's risks (even where none exist), and one side which is very focussed on the slightest hint of a restriction being imposed (to the point they make such things up). Meanwhile most people have just moved on with their lives and don't bother refighting the same tired battles.

That's my feeling too, two lots of zealots who carry on shouting both at each other and the other 90% of us just trying to make our way in this already mad-enough world. Their presentation of 'facts and figures' to support their case, carefully handpicked, are cheerfully ignored by the rest of us who are heartily bored with the subject. Anyway, at least I'm prepared to say I'll never opine here again on covid!

 

[Crossover]

I do what I have always done. If I feel well, I get on with my life. If I feel unwell, I stay at home until I feel well enough to go out.

Likewise.

There is a possibility me and my OH had Covid last week - didn't find out until half way through the week that I had been with a load of people up until the weekend before (in a theatre) who had tested positive in the few days after (there were a few people who raised the point at the meeting I was at on Wednesday of "well, if they hadn't tested, they wouldn't have known they had it")

We never tested and I continued doing what I was doing (including volunteering (at a fully outdoor event) at the weekend) and by Monday I was able to go to work as normal

 

[Bikeman78]

That's my feeling too, two lots of zealots who carry on shouting both at each other and the other 90% of us just trying to make our way in this already mad-enough world.

I think this was largely true four years ago. Sometimes it was quite entertaining to watch the opposing sides shouting at each other.

 

[AM9]

In you post you said that you not only avoided meeting that one individual but also self-isolated for five days. Why was that necessary, and how did that help that individual?

Because some of the people that I meet are vulnerable through age or illness, and staying in for 5 days wasn't a major scarifice for me to make. Unless I had a genuinely important reason to risk passing it on I felt that that was reasonable. I don't see myself as benefitting others by spreading infection for herd immunity, especially using that as a convenient excuse.

 

[island]

But wasting the Earth's resources! These things have a carbon dioxide footprint; more plastic waste.

I do not think many tests are being manufactured; certainly, a batch I examined in Boots the other day were marked as having been made in November 2022.

 

[najaB]

Meanwhile most people have just moved on with their lives and don't bother refighting the same tired battles.

Very well said, count me in that group!

 

[Bald Rick]

I feel sometimes as if there are two sides who are stuck in 2020/21. One side which very focussed on Covid and it's risks (even where none exist), and one side which is very focussed on the slightest hint of a restriction being imposed (to the point they make such things up). Meanwhile most people have just moved on with their lives and don't bother refighting the same tired battles.

Well said old chap. Perhaps it’s time to close all Covid threads…

 

[Richard Scott]

I feel sometimes as if there are two sides who are stuck in 2020/21. One side which very focussed on Covid and it's risks (even where none exist), and one side which is very focussed on the slightest hint of a restriction being imposed (to the point they make such things up). Meanwhile most people have just moved on with their lives and don't bother refighting the same tired battles.

Some of us are quite prickly about it as it lockdowns had a very negative affect on our lives and slightest hint of it brings back memories of those depressing times. Seeing a mask may not bother majority but it conjours up all of those negative memories when I see one so that's why.
I cannot help that reaction, it's not a choice I make.

 

[DustyBin]

Some of us are quite prickly about it as it lockdowns had a very negative affect on our lives and slightest hint of it brings back memories of those depressing times. Seeing a mask may not bother majority but it conjours up all of those negative memories when I see one so that's why.
I cannot help that reaction, it's not a choice I make.

This is totally understandable.

The main issue for me is that if we simply “move on with our lives” no lessons will be learned. The whole episode was an almighty cockup, the consequences of which will effect us for the foreseeable future. It was also largely avoidable, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss the subject and occasionally vent one’s frustrations!

 

[Eyersey468]

This is totally understandable.

The main issue for me is that if we simply “move on with our lives” no lessons will be learned. The whole episode was an almighty cockup, the consequences of which will effect us for the foreseeable future. It was also largely avoidable, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss the subject and occasionally vent one’s frustrations!

I agree, the lessons must be learned otherwise the next time something threatening comes along,and at some point it will, we will just repeat the mistakes and cause even more damage, next time possibly irreparable

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes. But with flu you know you have it and usually don't want to go out, whereas Covid affects different people differently. For some it's little more than a mild cold, for others it requires hospitalisation. So, folk with mild symptoms test themselves just in case.

There is lots of flu around that won't make most people ill but some cop it badly. Covid19 has now joined that level - its endemic and most people have enough experience of it to mean its not serious. But some do get it (Covid19 or other viruses) and suffer badly.

Yes. I’m 73 and in all honesty have probably had genuine flu only once or twice in my life. You know if you have flu as you definitely don’t want to go out or actually do anything. Every year I have common colds which of course is what most people have.

I have not knowingly had Flu badly but probably did when I was young. Covid19 hammered me badly Christmass 2020 BUT that was only because my immune system had no experience of it before so was late in fighting back. Second time I got Covid19 I recognised the feeling but was really not very ill. I still took lots of precautions to protect others though because Covid19 was not yet something most people had immunity to. Now its 2024 we really need to accept Covid19 is just another virus because it is unlikely that someone getting it has no previous experience of Covid19.

I do what I have always done. If I feel well, I get on with my life. If I feel unwell, I stay at home until I feel well enough to go out.

I don't feel particularly unwell with colds/flu but I know that a number of people get colds/flu worse than me. I tend to go to work as otherwise I will look to be skiving due to hardly any symptom. I accept that I am arguably a silent spreader. BUT with Covid19 I was more cautious because it was a new virus - it is no longer a new virus.

Obviously having had Covid19 at least twice I am unlikely to be aware of having Covid now - just like most Flus pass me by.

Possibly counterproductive, people do a test, it's clear so think that's fine when have something else that could cause another person issues. There's more than one illness around and we don't test for those so why concentrate on just one?

I agree the time to treat Covid19 as special have passed - that was always going to happen as it is no longer the new virus thank goodness.

Because I believe, from reading @AM9's post, that a positive test for Covid would have prevented the person from being admitted to hospital. Therefore it was sensible to test to ensure that their hospital appointment would not be derailed by @AM9 visiting them beforehand. Questions could be asked as to why the hospital required testing for Covid but not other infectious diseases but it seems quite sensible in the scenario described to take a test to avoid a friend having treatment delayed no?

That is where probably hospitals or other institutions need to review the need for precautions specific to Covid19 now that is is no longer a new virus.

It does seem a great pity that so many people have seemingly forgotten the one somewhat positive piece of scientific information that came out during the pandemic, though it would have already been known by anyone who bothered to read up on the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1917-1920. Namely that when a virus jumps to a new population, however virulent or infectious it may be to start with, over time it will inevitably mutate into a milder form which is less virulent and less infectious.

As far as Covid-19 is concerned it does appear that current variants are much less virulent as we don't have hospitals overwhelmed with very sick Covid patients. What is less clear is how infectious current variants are, though such information is probably not worth spending much time or money on to find out. But so many people are still reacting to any mention of Covid-19 with much the same dread as they did 4 years ago despite such a reaction now being somewhat misguided. It seems that political leaders are still unwilling to demonstrate useful leadership by communicating the realities to the wider population.

The variants are probably just as virulent as the first version of Covid19 BUT the affects on the population are far less severe as we have almost all had lessons learnt by our immune systems (caught it before or been vaccinated) so we fight it better. It is only the old or imuno-compromised that need to be careful of ALL viruses not just Covid.

I agree, the lessons must be learned otherwise the next time something threatening comes along,and at some point it will, we will just repeat the mistakes and cause even more damage, next time possibly irreparable

Yes. We did largely forget the lessons learned from Spanish Flu. Remember all those US soldiers crammed into to ships where it spread like wildfire. Any virus would but a NEW virus then adversely affects more people so precautions are only needed for a new virus - Covid19 was new but it is old hat now.

---

We need to no longer remember the precautions taken (rightly or wrongly) for Covid19. BUT we do need to very quickly remember them again when the next NEW virus is discovered. We won't of course. One lesson I have learnt is don't trust the politicians as they are either stupid or rule breakers - there is a remaining effect.

If a new virus came along today then I wonder whether I would respect lock-downs unless it suited me - because no one else is going to bother next time so why should I ?.

 

[AM9]

In you post you said that you not only avoided meeting that one individual but also self-isolated for five days. Why was that necessary, and how did that help that individual?

It didn't but my concern for others' vulnerability is not necessarily confined to that person. There are other vulnerable neighbours here for whom I was quite willing to pay the small price of not going to the local supermarket.The precautions that I took do not affect anybody else.

 

[Eyersey468]

There is lots of flu around that won't make most people ill but some cop it badly. Covid19 has now joined that level - its endemic and most people have enough experience of it to mean its not serious. But some do get it (Covid19 or other viruses) and suffer badly.

I have not knowingly had Flu badly but probably did when I was young. Covid19 hammered me badly Christmass 2020 BUT that was only because my immune system had no experience of it before so was late in fighting back. Second time I got Covid19 I recognised the feeling but was really not very ill. I still took lots of precautions to protect others though because Covid19 was not yet something most people had immunity to. Now its 2024 we really need to accept Covid19 is just another virus because it is unlikely that someone getting it has no previous experience of Covid19.

I don't feel particularly unwell with colds/flu but I know that a number of people get colds/flu worse than me. I tend to go to work as otherwise I will look to be skiving due to hardly any symptom. I accept that I am arguably a silent spreader. BUT with Covid19 I was more cautious because it was a new virus - it is no longer a new virus.

Obviously having had Covid19 at least twice I am unlikely to be aware of having Covid now - just like most Flus pass me by.

I agree the time to treat Covid19 as special have passed - that was always going to happen as it is no longer the new virus thank goodness.

That is where probably hospitals or other institutions need to review the need for precautions specific to Covid19 now that is is no longer a new virus.

The variants are probably just as virulent as the first version of Covid19 BUT the affects on the population are far less severe as we have almost all had lessons learnt by our immune systems (caught it before or been vaccinated) so we fight it better. It is only the old or imuno-compromised that need to be careful of ALL viruses not just Covid.

Yes. We did largely forget the lessons learned from Spanish Flu. Remember all those US soldiers crammed into to ships where it spread like wildfire. Any virus would but a NEW virus then adversely affects more people so precautions are only needed for a new virus - Covid19 was new but it is old hat now.

---

We need to no longer remember the precautions taken (rightly or wrongly) for Covid19. BUT we do need to very quickly remember them again when the next NEW virus is discovered. We won't of course. One lesson I have learnt is don't trust the politicians as they are either stupid or rule breakers - there is a remaining effect.

If a new virus came along today then I wonder whether I would respect lock-downs unless it suited me - because no one else is going to bother next time so why should I ?.

I agree we won't learn the lessons. My concern is lockdown being seen as the go to thing every time something threatening comes along rather than the once in a lifetime last resort that it should be

 

[Dent]

It didn't but my concern for others' vulnerability is not necessarily confined to that person. There are other vulnerable neighbours here for whom I was quite willing to pay the small price of not going to the local supermarket.

Do you do the same for every other endemic strain of the common cold that there is a small chance that a neighbour might have a rare vulnerability to? If not then your are being logically inconsistent in singling out this one particular strain of cold which is no more dangerous than any other.

 

[najaB]

Do you do the same for every other endemic strain of the common cold that there is a small chance that a neighbour might have a rare vulnerability to? If not then your are being logically inconsistent in singling out this one particular strain of cold which is no more dangerous than any other.

And this is your concern how, exactly?

 

[Dent]

And this is your concern how, exactly?

Where did I claim it was my concern? This is a discussion forum.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think the way to view Covid19 is that it has joined the ranks of all the other common or garden cold or flu. It no longer demands the specific caution that it needed when it was a new thing for most peoples immune system. We have now either died from it, got vaccinated or learnt the hard way (before vaccines like I did). We only need to remember the use of lockdown again if a new virus appears (not a strain of Covid19 but something very new). Avian flu might be that if it mutates enough to become more transmissible amongst humans. But on balance we are probably going to have to dust off the plans in bout one hundred years.

I reckon in one hundred years time most of us will be at home having food delivered by robots and the waste all goes down the pan (biodegradable packaging). There will be people to avoid e.g. some wierdos that insist on going out perhaps in groups watching trains go by or people having to work in groups actually making or repairing infrastructure. Risk of a two tier society (which sort of had appeared back in lockdown - my team were expected to wear masks as we roamed the whole factory complex). So in future humans will get very ill from any old virus because we will go through most of life not rubbing shoulders with fellow humans.

I know the above paragraph is speculation but I did it to put into context where we have been with Covid19 and what the next threat might be. One lesson might be that we need to keep our immune systems "exercised" with regular exposure and have the capability to develop vaccines very quickly for the once in a hundred years new virus. I think lockdowns were easier with Covid19 than would have been with Spanish Flu as nowadays we have computers and the internet. Next hundred years goodness knows.

 

[nw1]

I reckon in one hundred years time most of us will be at home having food delivered by robots and the waste all goes down the pan (biodegradable packaging). There will be people to avoid e.g. some wierdos that insist on going out perhaps in groups watching trains go by or people having to work in groups actually making or repairing infrastructure. Risk of a two tier society (which sort of had appeared back in lockdown - my team were expected to wear masks as we roamed the whole factory complex). So in future humans will get very ill from any old virus because we will go through most of life not rubbing shoulders with fellow humans.

I doubt it. People will not tolerate being stuck at home all the time under normal (i.e. non-lockdown/pandemic conditions) and never socialising.

There will be truly immense anger if those in power try and impose that kind of dystopian society on us in normal (non-pandemic) times. Human beings are social and at the end of the day we are hunter/gatherers. We are evolutionarily hard-wired to go out and meet other people. We aren't hard-wired to be stuck in the place we sleep 24/7. For another thing, we'll all be dying early of obesity-related conditions if we never go out - and those who survive obesity may well end up dying as a consequence of mental health conditions.

Lockdowns lasting a few months were bad enough for the mental health of many of us. A future in which a lockdown lifestyle becomes the normal when there is no pandemic about will be too much for most of us to take.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I doubt it. People will not tolerate being stuck at home all the time under normal (i.e. non-lockdown/pandemic conditions) and never socialising.

There will be immense anger if those in power try and impose that kind of dystopian society on us in normal (non-pandemic) times. Human beings are social and at the end of the day we are hunter/gatherers. We are evolutionarily hard-wired to go out and meet other people. We aren't hard-wired to be stuck in the place we live 24/7. For another thing, we'll all be dying early of obesity-related conditions if we never go out - and those who survive obesity may well end up dying as a consequence of mental health conditions.

My bold. I see that happening already. I feel many humans do already resort to indoors much more than we used to. Furthermore I think things like gyms are an answer to the problem that never really existed even 50 years ago. People nowadays replacing lack of social contact with manufactured solutions (probably due to having more leisure time). I do see a lot of people stuck in front of their TV or internet instead of being active.

To be clear I do not think this is being forced on people but many seem happy to be inactive (physically and socially) then wonder why they are depressed. For those of us using common sense lockdowns were a real imposition (I won't argue here about how necessary or not they were).

What has this got to do with the thread title ? - well perhaps more of the human race are now more aware of the effects of social and physical inactivity as a result of Covid19. There are lessons there regardless of a pandemic.

 

[Eyersey468]

I think the way to view Covid19 is that it has joined the ranks of all the other common or garden cold or flu. It no longer demands the specific caution that it needed when it was a new thing for most peoples immune system. We have now either died from it, got vaccinated or learnt the hard way (before vaccines like I did). We only need to remember the use of lockdown again if a new virus appears (not a strain of Covid19 but something very new). Avian flu might be that if it mutates enough to become more transmissible amongst humans. But on balance we are probably going to have to dust off the plans in bout one hundred years.

I reckon in one hundred years time most of us will be at home having food delivered by robots and the waste all goes down the pan (biodegradable packaging). There will be people to avoid e.g. some wierdos that insist on going out perhaps in groups watching trains go by or people having to work in groups actually making or repairing infrastructure. Risk of a two tier society (which sort of had appeared back in lockdown - my team were expected to wear masks as we roamed the whole factory complex). So in future humans will get very ill from any old virus because we will go through most of life not rubbing shoulders with fellow humans.

I know the above paragraph is speculation but I did it to put into context where we have been with Covid19 and what the next threat might be. One lesson might be that we need to keep our immune systems "exercised" with regular exposure and have the capability to develop vaccines very quickly for the once in a hundred years new virus. I think lockdowns were easier with Covid19 than would have been with Spanish Flu as nowadays we have computers and the internet. Next hundred years goodness knows.

I agree we need regular exposure to things to keep our innumerable systems working properly