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[sheff1]

I thought 'good, now you don't need to select a time for the return when using walk up tickets, as there is an Open Return option'. Having to select a return unnecessarily is the main reason I don't book on the old site as often as I would otherwise.

Unfortunately, when I selected that option the new site showed 'No results after filtering'.
If I select an unwanted return time I see the exact same split info as the old site. Journey is Sheffield to Ruabon, via Shrewsbury.

Had I not read earlier posts, I would not have realised that the cog wheel is the equivalent of the "more options" on the current site.

Same here. Without seeing the earlier posts I would never have guessed that was where to set a route option etc.

It would be helpful to understand what value you get from knowing the split points for the search results you are considering. If it's an Advance split, I'm not entirely sure I'd see the relevance.

In my case (flexible rather than Advance) I like to know as the split point originally offered is not always the optimum one. For example on more than one occasion a split at Long Eaton heading south on the MML has been offered when a split at Derby gives the same fares with more flexibilty. I have also had splits offered at University when a split at New St would give the same fares, again the latter gives more flexibility. Talking about the old site here, haven't had time to check the new.

 

[Adam Williams]

I thought 'good, now you don't need to select a time for the return when using walk up tickets, as there is an Open Return option'.

Unfortunately, when I selected that option the new site showed 'No results after filtering'.

What origin/destination did you search between, and are there actually through-return fares defined on that flow?

As it's designed today, it can't suggest splits to you. You need to be quite careful with selling people split walk-ups and advertising that we an "open" return, I think, even if all of the constituent tickets were Anytime Returns - because the split points can heavily influence the number of itineraries the combination is actually valid for.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2024 ==

In my case (flexible rather than Advance) I like to know as the split point originally offered is not always the optimum one. For example on more than one occasion a split at Long Eaton heading south on the MML has been offered when a split at Derby gives the same fares with more flexibilty. I have also had splits offered at University when a split at New St would give the same fares, again the latter gives more flexibility. Talking about the old site here, haven't had time to check the new

I think if you can write in to customer support about these sorts of cases, that's probably the best approach - as they'll be able to be logged and can be used to improve the splits that the system comes up with.

Obciously you are told the split points on the Ticket Information screen so nothing has changed in this respect.

 

[BRX]

The option for other itineraries is certainly something that I like to know - I like to have a plan B in case of disruption due to, for example, "short notice changes in the timetables".

On an advance ticket, a split point close to home (for example Liverpool South Parkway on a ticket to Lime Street, should that split apply), would give me the option to terminate my journey at South Parkway and get the bus home, rather than continuing to Lime Street and getting a bus from Liverpool city centre. Local split points also give me the option of using a Merseytravel Saveaway ticket which would cover the bus to/from the station (for example splitting at Newton le Willows on a Liverpool/Leeds journey).

I'm currently looking at tickets between Liverpool and Birmingham International and for a flexible fare, it turns out that use of a Ranger or Daytripper can give me extra flexibility and/or additional savings. As these tickets are not included in the split ticketing options, it was useful to see the split points.

For example, replacing the Wolverhampton-Birmingham Off-Peak Day Return (£9.20) with an off peak West Midlands Day Tripper (£8.20) gives me a small saving, additional flexibility for alternative types of transport between Birmingham and Wolverhampton in case of disruption, and the option to explore further afield if time allows.
View attachment 161913

I have quite similar use cases when traveling places from south London - if I can see that a split is happening at one of the London termini then sometimes I'll decide just to buy the ticket from there and do the rest on contactless.

It's also useful to know where the split is on tickets that are a combination of advance/walk-up because it can give useful info about flexibility in break of journey.

 

[sheff1]

What origin/destination did you search between, and are there actually through-return fares defined on that flow?

As it's designed today, it can't suggest splits to you. You need to be quite careful with selling people split walk-ups and advertising that we an "open" return, I think, even if all of the constituent tickets were Anytime Returns - because the split points can heavily influence the number of itineraries the combination is actually valid for.

As I said, Sheffield to Ruabon with an intermediate point of Shrewsbury. I don't believe the through fare is valid that way (but happy to be corrected) but the split at Wilmslow obviously is and is offered if a return time is selected.

I don't fully understand your second para. The 'open' returns are Sheffield - Wilmslow and Wilmslow - Ruabon - they can't be valid other than via Wilmslow.

 

[MrJeeves]

As I said, Sheffield to Ruabon with an intermediate point of Shrewsbury. I don't believe the through fare is valid that way (but happy to be corrected) but the split at Wilmslow obviously is and is offered if a return time is selected.

I don't fully understand your second para. The 'open' returns are Sheffield - Wilmslow and Wilmslow - Ruabon - they can't be valid other than via Wilmslow.

The open return option will only offer through return tickets. It doesn't suggest splits.

If you want a split with period returns, you're better off using the normal search and changing the ticket selection in the sidebar on the right hand side after picking your itineraries.

Alternatively, add each part of the journey using the open return functionality individually.

 

[Adam Williams]

It doesn't suggest splits

Nor can it, without opening a can of worms.

The example from Sheffield to Ruabon with a forced via point is less egregious because you're expecting multiple tickets to do that journey as a matter of course, but I think you really need to be careful about suggesting splits at a location that the customer hasn't deliberately identified as a forced Via point (in stop at/change at mode). For example, let's say I ask for an open return from Rugby to London Euston. Do you offer the two returns splitting at MKC, without knowledge of the customer's selected itinerary on the way back? What happens when they get on the Preston-bound Avanti on the way back?

 

[sheff1]

Thanks both. I can see why you are aiming at people who don't fully understand how split tickets work. I prefer not to be forced to select a return train when I don't know when I will be returning.

 

[Adam Williams]

Thanks both. I can see why you are aiming at people who don't fully understand how split tickets work.

It's a really tricky one to balance. Particularly since the devs working on this directly see the impact on the customer service team from every design decision that gets made.

The entire engineering team is basically a bunch of rail enthusiasts, so there does tend to be conversations about the needs of power-users and the folks who do understand the fares system, as well. Not just a case of wanting to dumb things down.

I prefer not to be forced to select a return train when I don't know when I will be returning.

Frankly I'd prefer not to need to select any itineraries at all, and just buy fares. Ideally via a command line interface

$ raileasy buy --rlc TST LMS MYB SVR 2024-07-18
# or
$ raileasy buy --rlc TST LMS MYB SVR tomorrow
Multiple fares match criteria:

1) Route: ANY PERMITTED for £42.20
2) Route: VIA BANBURY for £40.10

Enter selection: 2

 

[SickyNicky]

Frankly I'd prefer not to need to select any itineraries at all, and just buy fares. Ideally via a command line interface

Nice - plus a switch to specify authentication details (maybe using a lodged card which you've already verified?) and it simply drops the PDF / TOD as the result.

raileasy buy --auth ./key.pub --rlc TST LMS MYB SVR today
Multiple fares match criteria:

1) Route: ANY PERMITTED for £42.20
2) Route: VIA BANBURY for £40.10

Enter selection: 2

Success. E-ticket written to ./2024-07-18-LMSMYB-073717.pdf

 

[Adam Williams]

Nice - plus a switch to specify authentication details (maybe using a lodged card which you've already verified?) and it simply drops the PDF / TOD as the result.

raileasy buy --auth ./key.pub --rlc TST LMS MYB SVR today
Multiple fares match criteria:

1) Route: ANY PERMITTED for £42.20
2) Route: VIA BANBURY for £40.10

Enter selection: 2

Success. E-ticket written to ./2024-07-18-LMSMYB-073717.pdf

Exactly yes, or perhaps an environment variable! Stick it in your shell config and away you go

 

[signed]

A small thing, that just threw me for a spin, the Beta site states a flat point-to-point ticket is a split despite being not a split

The search has Split Tickets disabled

TH

 

[JoshD14]

A small thing, that just threw me for a spin, the Beta site states a flat point-to-point ticket is a split despite being not a split

This is hopefully already fixed in a branch I have locally with some wider changes and fixes to searching, hopefully that will all get tested and go live some point soon!

 

[Farigiraf]

Quick query: I'll be on an advance single this summer (travelling with luggage) on a route which includes a 'journey across London with tube, DLR or train'. The itinerary says to go to Blackfriars (TL) then take an (unspecified) tube to Waterloo. I'd prefer not having to navigate Embankment with suitcases, so I'm wondering whether it would be valid to stay on the TL train as long as London Bridge, then take a direct Jubilee line train to Waterloo?
Transfer time between BFR and WAT would be roughly an hour so if anyone knows any other simpler routes (that are valid on the ticket), I'd be much obliged.
TIA

 

[MrJeeves]

Quick query: I'll be on an advance single this summer (travelling with luggage) on a route which includes a 'journey across London with tube, DLR or train'. The itinerary says to go to Blackfriars (TL) then take an (unspecified) tube to Waterloo. I'd prefer not having to navigate Embankment with suitcases, so I'm wondering whether it would be valid to stay on the TL train as long as London Bridge, then take a direct Jubilee line train to Waterloo?
Transfer time between BFR and WAT would be roughly an hour so if anyone knows any other simpler routes (that are valid on the ticket), I'd be much obliged.
TIA

Yeah, you won't have an issue with that.

Remember the tube is a decent walk from the trains at Bridge, though.

 

[Haywain]

Transfer time between BFR and WAT would be roughly an hour so if anyone knows any other simpler routes (that are valid on the ticket), I'd be much obliged.

A step-free alternative to London Bridge would be Blackfriars - Westminster - Waterloo, using Circle/District and Jubilee lines.

 

[alistairlees]

Quick query: I'll be on an advance single this summer (travelling with luggage) on a route which includes a 'journey across London with tube, DLR or train'. The itinerary says to go to Blackfriars (TL) then take an (unspecified) tube to Waterloo. I'd prefer not having to navigate Embankment with suitcases, so I'm wondering whether it would be valid to stay on the TL train as long as London Bridge, then take a direct Jubilee line train to Waterloo?
Transfer time between BFR and WAT would be roughly an hour so if anyone knows any other simpler routes (that are valid on the ticket), I'd be much obliged.
TIA

You could just get the train from London Bridge to Waterloo East, then walk up the ramp into Waterloo. There are lifts at both ends too. This is much less walking and will probably be quicker.

 

[MrJeeves]

You could just get the train from London Bridge to Waterloo East, then walk up the ramp into Waterloo. There are lifts at both ends too. This is much less walking and will probably be quicker.

I agree that this is probably the best option.

 

[Farigiraf]

Thanks for all the replies. I think the option via Waterloo East would require the lowest amount of walking but I'll keep the others in mind too

 

[1D54]

Is the original site going to remain open for business? I've just used it so hopefully it will continue.

 

[Mike395]

Is the original site going to remain open for business? I've just used it so hopefully it will continue.

Certainly in the short term

 

[Egg Centric]

I wonder if it's worth making the forum link in the header link to the end of this thread? I should imagine that's possible with XenForo even if I'm too lazy to google it.

Not used the new site yet, partly due to a change in expenses policy that makes it more lucrative for me to drive, so will reserve feedback on that to when I do!

 

[PO48RA]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question, it does relate to the booking site.

When I search for Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria on, for example, 30th July it offers me an advance single departing at 1004 arriving at Victoria at 1245 changing at Hilsea which is about 10 minutes out of Portsmouth Harbour. The 1004 service continues to Victoria. Price £7.

The conection at Hillsea is onto a Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria service which departed at 1029 and for which the advance single fare shows as £10.

Only the £10 ticket shows on southern's website.

Is this a glitch or does the site have different inventory to southern's own site?

Thanks.

 

[Adam Williams]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question, it does relate to the booking site.

When I search for Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria on, for example, 30th July it offers me an advance single departing at 1004 arriving at Victoria at 1245 changing at Hilsea which is about 10 minutes out of Portsmouth Harbour. The 1004 service continues to Victoria. Price £7.

The conection at Hillsea is onto a Portsmouth Harbour to Victoria service which departed at 1029 and for which the advance single fare shows as £10.

Only the £10 ticket shows on southern's website.

Is this a glitch or does the site have different inventory to southern's own site?

Thanks.

I think what you're describing is "step back".

The site doesn't have access to any secret inventory, but the underlying journey planner is not stupid and will check to see if getting off and boarding a service behind at an intermediate stop can save you more money. Is it an Advance & Connections ticket / are you given reservations on both trains? Counted place on both, ftot is SAV.



It only needs to get inventory from Portsmouth Harbour to Hilsea on train #1 and inventory from Hilsea to London Victoria on train #2, but when it asks for availability it will tell the reservation system some details about the overall journey origin/destination which can influence the ticket types that are considered available.

The TOC sites are designed to flog the fastest services, generally. The aim isn't to give you the best value tickets. Even the ones that do do split-ticketing do a half-hearted job at it.

 

[camhef]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere in the 38 pages of comments but...
I am trying to book tickets for two adults; one with a Senior Railcard, one with no railcard. This is not possible:

You will need 2 railcards. If you don't have enough your tickets won't be valid.

Is there a solution?

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere in the 38 pages of comments but...
I am trying to book tickets for two adults; one with a Senior Railcard, one with no railcard. This is not possible:

Is there a solution?

For the time being, add each ticket to your basket separately, and then pay.

For each ticket, you can use the seat selector (if applicable to your journey) and therefore ensure you get seats next to each other.

Multiple Railcard support with split ticketing (bear in mind some journeys can involve a double figure number of splits) is complicated, but it is very much on the roadmap.

 

[camhef]

For the time being, add each ticket to your basket separately and then pay

I'll try that, thanks. Will seat reservations work together or could we end up in different carriages?

 

[MrJeeves]

I'll try that, thanks. Will seat reservations work together or could we end up in different carriages?

You can (try to) use the seat selector for each of the journeys to place your seats next to each other if you'd like.

 

[PO48RA]

Question about Plusbus on e-tickets purchased from the site.

From what I've read it only seems to apply in Cambrige and West Yorkshire at present?

I'm being offered plusbus for e-tickets on the site in Lierpool and Newcastle, how does that work?

Thanks

 

[MrJeeves]

I'm being offered plusbus for e-tickets on the site in Lierpool and Newcastle, how does that work?

I'm afraid I can't reproduce this behaviour. Any journey with Liverpool or Newcastle PlusBus will only let me choose to receive paper tickets both on the original site and the beta site.

Do you have a search link you could share that reproduces this behaviour? Or the details of your original search so we can check our logs to see if anything went wrong during the booking process?

 

[PO48RA]

My apologies, when I actually select to include Plusbus, it reverts to paper tickets. I was thrown by the first page where it indicated that they would be e-tickets and didn't go any further before asking the question.