"via York" tickets on Lumo services

[miklcct]

Flexible tickets between London and Edinburgh are routed "via York", however, the Lumo train I travelled used a line which avoided York!

Does it mean that these tickets are not valid on Lumo trains which use the York avoiding line?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Perfectly valid. The "via York" is essentially to distinguish services via the East Coast Main Line from those via the West Coast.

Similar applied to "via Birmingham" tickets being valid on Wrexham & Shropshire services back in the day, as they passed through Aston rather than New Street.

 

[Benjwri]

Perfectly valid. The "via York" is essentially to distinguish services via the East Coast Main Line from those via the West Coast.

Similar applied to "via Birmingham" tickets being valid on Wrexham & Shropshire services back in the day, as they passed through Aston rather than New Street.

Are they technically valid though? Is an interesting question as GWR say a season ticket split at Didcot is not valid on trains that use the avoiding line….

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are they technically valid though? Is an interesting question as GWR say a season ticket split at Didcot is not valid on trains that use the avoiding line….

Journey planners offer them for the services that use the York avoiding line, so that strongly suggests they're intended to be valid that way.

I'd also suggest that GWR are talking rubbish when it comes to the Didcot Avoider (and presumably Westbury), as it's entirely possible for trains not booked to call to be diverted via the station and vice versa.

 

[mikeg]

Another disadvantage of this obsession with getting rid of 'any permitted'. Just reword any permitted if it's so damn confusing, but don't take away our freedom.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they technically valid though? Is an interesting question as GWR say a season ticket split at Didcot is not valid on trains that use the avoiding line….

Do the trains have a timing point as passing York? If so yes, if not no. Lumo's trains I believe do.

That's what the planners use, anyway (though it probably isn't contractual).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2024 ==

Another disadvantage of this obsession with getting rid of 'any permitted'. Just reword any permitted if it's so damn confusing, but don't take away our freedom.

This was done because it was making a mess of WCML-valid fares because LNER has single fare pricing and Avanti doesn't.

 

[Segedunum]

Considering that the Anytime Single 'via York' is £199.60 while a Lumo Anytime Day Single is £89.00 - the number of people actually using these tickets and then getting on Lumo in normal circumstances is going to be slim to none.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Considering that the Anytime Single 'via York' is £199.60 while a Lumo Anytime Day Single is £89.00 - the number of people actually using these tickets and then getting on Lumo in normal circumstances is going to be slim to none.

Certainly anyone who pays for their own tickets would be better off refunding it (even less the £5 admin fee) and buying a Lumo ticket, to the tune of over a hundred quid.

The odd business traveller might do it.

 

[Benjwri]

Do the trains have a timing point as passing York? If so yes, if not no. Lumo's trains I believe do.

Some Lumo don’t, for example the 0548 and 1045 off Kings Cross. If they’re booked to use avoiding lines they don’t get a York timing point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some Lumo don’t, for example the 0548 and 1045 off Kings Cross. If they’re booked to use avoiding lines they don’t get a York timing point.

If that's the case the planners probably won't sell a "route York" ticket on that train, though there's really no reason why anyone should buy one (you'd be paying more than double what you need to) so nobody has probably noticed.

Staff will probably accept them fine if you really wanted to, but again that's limited to people who can't refund and repurchase and in doing so save well over a hundred quid.

Just tried and Trainline will sell a route York ticket on the 0548, so presumably something has been put in to ensure they are issued. I don't know if there are any other examples we can try (with routed tickets) to see if this is still the general case, e.g. any tickets routed Didcot Parkway?

However I still suspect hardly anyone does because only people not in a position to refund their ticket would ever do that, because they'd be paying £100 over the odds.

 

[Starmill]

If that's the case the planners probably won't sell a "route York" ticket on that train, though there's really no reason why anyone should buy one (you'd be paying more than double what you need to) so nobody has probably noticed.

Staff will probably accept them fine if you really wanted to, but again that's limited to people who can't refund and repurchase and in doing so save well over a hundred quid.

Just tried and Trainline will sell a route York ticket on the 0548, so presumably something has been put in to ensure they are issued. I don't know if there are any other examples we can try (with routed tickets) to see if this is still the general case, e.g. any tickets routed Didcot Parkway?

However I still suspect hardly anyone does because only people not in a position to refund their ticket would ever do that, because they'd be paying £100 over the odds.

There's an easement for route York tickets on those services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2024 ==

Considering that the Anytime Single 'via York' is £199.60 while a Lumo Anytime Day Single is £89.00 - the number of people actually using these tickets and then getting on Lumo in normal circumstances is going to be slim to none.

Indeed for this journey. But this is one lesson in over-generalising - there's always a chance there's a route York ticket and no Lumo-dedicated equivalent. For example, before Croy to London gained it's Lumo & ScotRail Only tickets.

 

[Thomas Jenkin]

Are they technically valid though? Is an interesting question as GWR say a season ticket split at Didcot is not valid on trains that use the avoiding line….

This is different though as you're talking about split ticketing and not tickets that just say "via ...".
A split ticket is only valid if the train stops in the station the split is at. In your example, Didcot, the train must be booked to stop at Didcot otherwise the tickets are not valid.
A via is just a station you have to go via like tickets from Guildford on SWR. A ticket to London can say via Clandon/Woking. But if the train doesn't stop at Clandon then it is still valid as long as it did pass through it.

 

[Watershed]

This is different though as you're talking about split ticketing and not tickets that just say "via ...".
A split ticket is only valid if the train stops in the station the split is at. In your example, Didcot, the train must be booked to stop at Didcot otherwise the tickets are not valid.
A via is just a station you have to go via like tickets from Guildford on SWR. A ticket to London can say via Clandon/Woking. But if the train doesn't stop at Clandon then it is still valid as long as it did pass through it.

The example @Bletchleyite gave was to do with season tickets; when combining a season ticket with any other ticket, you can make a non-stop split. So the split point reverts to becoming a "via" point, effectively.

 

[westv]

I never knew there was a line that avoided York!

 

[ainsworth74]

I never knew there was a line that avoided York!

Until Lumo started going that way regularly its only passenger usage was by the odd charter service or very occasionally by service trains as a part of a planned closure of York for engineering (but that's very occasional). So easy to miss!

 

[SargeNpton]

Flexible tickets between London and Edinburgh are routed "via York", however, the Lumo train I travelled used a line which avoided York!

Does it mean that these tickets are not valid on Lumo trains which use the York avoiding line?

In retail systems, one of the junctions for the avoiding line is linked to York station as a timing point. So any trains on the avoiding line are treated as running through York for ticket routing purposes.