DfT in a Hurry on Rail Reform

[coxxy]

I wouldn't class TPE as "failing" any more.

Still running a massively reduced timetable

 

[CAF397]

But have they not resorted to a pathetically easy timetable just to accommodate their ongoing very poor traincrew recourses?

There is massive traction and route training at most depots at the moment, probably hidden from the general public perception. A near full timetable is due to resume in December, and that is the test of whether the 12 months of reduced timetable has worked.

 

[dk1]

There is massive traction and route training at most depots at the moment, probably hidden from the general public perception. A near full timetable is due to resume in December, and that is the test of whether the 12 months of reduced timetable has worked.

Not hidden from me. Just a very poorly run franchise over the last five years that is now paying the price.

 

[YorkshireBear]

TPE are substantially improve on the north route as far as I am concerned. I now consider it unexpected and rare to find one cancelled.

 

[Hadlow Road]

10/10 I totally agree. If I may use an American expression please -- time to walk the walk and not talk the talk!

Perhaps ”get on with it”?

 

[12LDA28C]

Exactly this

Some of the tradues Unions seem ot have a binary switch on their position when dealing with the management of an organisation in that there is only full cooperation when they are getting 100% of their way , anything else flips the switch into 'combative' mode and seeking any opportyunity to hold a legal ballot to get a mandate for ASoS or Strikes
I see another commentor has implied that OLR staff are 'employed by the government' , this is incorrect as even within services and organisations which have remained in the public sector it is rare that , unless you are sufficiently senior Civil Servant that your employer is actually 'HM Government'

I didn't say that and even if I had it wouldn't be limited to OLR staff. Since the passenger TOCs are now micro-managed by the DfT these days and have to get Government approval for any kind of spending, having practically zero authority over their own operations, especially in terms of negotiating a pay rise or changes to Ts & Cs with its own employees, the employer is effectively the Government. Hope that makes things clearer.

 

[FixUpLookSharp]

To say nothing of 3-car 185s rammed to the seams, still happening on Sheffield <> Mancheser with too much frequency.

And it will keep happening because all the money spent to put in a second platform and line at Dore & Totley was never actually meant to mean a third express Sheffield to Manchester service.

It was meant to guarantee an hourly stopping service between Sheffield and Manchester instead.

 

[Goldfish62]

Seems rather odd (or lacking in journalistic rigour) for the article not to mention that TPE, which the article mentions prominently, is already effectively run by the DfT. So presumably the person they 'call in' sits in the next office somewhere....

TPE is not run by the DfT. Public ownership and who actually runs a state-owned company are not the same thing. Just as the NHS and Post Office are not run by civil servants.

It's generally recognised that the OLR-owned operators tend to have more independence from the interference of civil servants.

 

[ABB125]

it will keep happening because all the money spent to put in a second platform and line at Dore & Totley was never actually meant to mean a third express Sheffield to Manchester service.

It was originally meant to, but then "they" changed the scope...

 

[KM1991]

I am 2½ years into my railway career and 30+ years into my working life, I have 2 observations (one may be a bit controversial....) the Unions need get get out of the 1970s and the railway needs to get out of the 1980s. The sooner both get dragged into the 21st century the better.

How are the unions in the “1970s”?

Is it normal for some people on this forum to pretend to work on the railways?

 

[LowLevel]

How are the unions in the “1970s”?

Is it normal for some people on this forum to pretend to work on the railways?

Not all railway staff are wedded to unions. Some refuse to have anything to do with them, others dislike elements of them. Stating that doesn't mean someone is pretending to work on the railway. Personally I've always supported my union, it doesn't mean I like everything about it.

My own personal bugbear has always been stuff that would make my life easier in my work not being introduced because the union wants a "new technology payment" for anything to change, ever. That is quite 1970s

 

[Adrian1980uk]

The drawback of the direction of travel of the railways has already been shown, unions want to negotiate pay with government as there is really no limits (other than artificial budgets) on spending, when it was franchise they had to negotiate with each franchise management team and they had fixed subsidy, the only way to increase income to afford pay rises was bums on seats. Drawbacks of that model are well documented here.

I think the railways going forward will have more union problems but I'm for a decision and moving on with that rather than the situation we have now, no one can make any decisions and all in limbo

 

[Sly Old Fox]

There are definitely things where the union need to wise up a bit, and accept that it’s 2024. Wanting a payment for learning a new type of train is insanity.

 

[Clarence Yard]

TPE is not run by the DfT. Public ownership and who actually runs a state-owned company are not the same thing. Just as the NHS and Post Office are not run by civil servants.

It's generally recognised that the OLR-owned operators tend to have more independence from the interference of civil servants.

That was true until they were put on NRC style contracts - they now tend to have the same degree of DfT control as the others.

 

[KM1991]

Not all railway staff are wedded to unions. Some refuse to have anything to do with them, others dislike elements of them. Stating that doesn't mean someone is pretending to work on the railway. Personally I've always supported my union, it doesn't mean I like everything about it.

My own personal bugbear has always been stuff that would make my life easier in my work not being introduced because the union wants a "new technology payment" for anything to change, ever. That is quite 1970s

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Evidence that Louise Haigh (now the Rt Hon) is moving "at speed" to progress rail reform.

My washing machine does 1600rpm at its fastest spin speed. It doesn't move anywhere though.

Velocity has direction.

 

[LowLevel]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Yes, I believe it comes in the form of wages and release from the day job for training, as well as payment for overtime if required.

Some things I can go with, that materially change the job being done.

Others - well it was once suggested to me that a new tech payment should be available for having online payslips rather than posted ones, available several days in advance at your convenience and not cluttering up your living room. Sure the company saves a few pence on postage but who cares, the convenience is worth far more to me. They even still do the paper ones for those who want them.

 

[ABB125]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Why?

Any required training should be done during normal working hours (or at an agreed overtime rate etc), but that's it.

(I appreciate, however, that this is not necessarily the best thread to discuss this. However, it is one thing that definitely needs reforming!)

 

[Falcon1200]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Why? And for every single change, no matter how minor?

Staff in other railway roles certainly did not receive compensation when new things came in! For example, Booking Office Clerks going from Flexiprinter and NCR 51 machines to Intis and Aptis, or Controllers going from handwritten fleet control to Promise, Gemini and Genius.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Yes, I believe it comes in the form of wages and release from the day job for training, as well as payment for overtime if required.

Some things I can go with, that materially change the job being done.

Others - well it was once suggested to me that a new tech payment should be available for having online payslips rather than posted ones, available several days in advance at your convenience and not cluttering up your living room. Sure the company saves a few pence on postage but who cares, the convenience is worth far more to me. They even still do the paper ones for those who want them.

You still have paper payslips?

My first dual electronic/paper payslip was 21 years ago. Fully switched to digital only in 2006!

 

[RexMundi]

You still have paper payslips?

My first dual electronic/paper payslip was 21 years ago. Fully switched to digital only in 2006!

Still have paper ones although we can get them electronically too

 

[WAB]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

This is very out of step with the real world. When you take on a job, it is not reasonable to expect it to remain in aspic forever; particularly given the salaries on offer.

We keep being told that traincrew grades are skilled, which is fair enough. But skilled people should be able to adapt to relatively minor changes without bribery.

 

[RPI]

Please don't confuse me with someone who has their head in the sand as to be so nieve about who has been pulling the strings with the employers. But the Unions really don't do themselves favours sometimes. The whole industry is constantly pulled between those who don't want reform and those who want to modernise and it's the workers and passengers caught in the middle....

I've done over 20 years on the railway, and this post sums the whole thing up perfectly, well said.

 

[AverageJoe]

It still has one of the higher cancellations rates compared to other TOCs. It’s just less high than it used to be.

Do you have evidence to support that?

 

[LowLevel]

You still have paper payslips?

My first dual electronic/paper payslip was 21 years ago. Fully switched to digital only in 2006!

They're still available to those who always had them if they want them.

I transferred mine to electronic as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

 

[RPI]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Total rubbish, thankfully at the TOC I work for "Technology payments" were done away with years ago, literally they used to make our life harder, new technology that would be introduced to make our jobs easier would be delayed because some of the militant faction wanted a payment of £50 to read a 3 page instruction book, or they wanted a day off trains to sit in the classroom to be taught something that a five year old could do. When we were first given company mobile phones in 2006, to massively improve our safety as much as anything, some wanted to go on a course on how to use a Nokia brick phone, that's how crazy it was.

 

[Snow1964]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Yes, training and update courses are part of a job, as long as get the time allocated within normal hours to do them shouldn't need any extra payment.

But staff shouldn't expect it for everything, Otherwise would still be using quills and ink pens, because no one allowed to write on a tablet computer. If you applied rule as you phrase it, then if they changed the style of handle on toilet door, and didn't offer training and compensation then no one would use it.

Time and Technology move on, and accepting change and modernisation is part of a career.

 

[43066]

Sure the company saves a few pence on postage but who cares, the convenience is worth far more to me. They even still do the paper ones for those who want them.

I’m sure we would all like tablets, especially those of us involved with instructing. Although they need to be iPads, or I’d rather stick to pen and paper .

This is very out of step with the real world.

Depends which bit of the real world. These things vary by industry. In previous non railway roles I received private health care, bonuses and a “car allowance”, despite not owning a car at the time and working in central London! none of these are offered to train crew. Tech payments are tiny in the scheme of things, so I’m surprised people are quite so exercised by them.

When the job itself changes, due to driving policy/rulebook changes, re signalling schemes etc. no payment is forthcoming.

Yes, training and update courses are part of a job, as long as get the time allocated within normal hours to do them shouldn't need any extra payment.

Just as they are for traincrew at both TOCs I’ve worked for.

 

[fandroid]

Staff should always be compensated for learning new things that come in after they joined the role.

Perhaps they should be pleased to be offered free training that keeps them abreast with modern practices? It would make more sense to compensate them for becoming less and less employable due to inadequate exposure to modern equipment and systems.

 

[KM1991]

Perhaps they should be pleased to be offered free training that keeps them abreast with modern practices? It would make more sense to compensate them for becoming less and less employable due to inadequate exposure to modern equipment and systems.

Nah.

Technology payments have always existed at my TOC and will continue to do so.

If they want you to take on something extra, then staff will be compensated. It’s as simple as that.