How fast do you drive on the motorway?

[jon0844]

Eh? You seem to be contradicting yourself now.

We've established that technically (and boy is it pedantic - as it changes nothing for the sake of this discussion) some roads are still classed as de-restricted in the legal paperwork, as they could one day be truly de-restricted. However, none of them are actually allowing you to drive at any speed because a ruling that sets limits at 60 and 70mph is in place that overrides the de-restriction.

So, you don't need a 70 sign on 'some special roads' as 'there really would be no speed limit at all' as that's nonsense. They'd be covered under the restriction of 60 and 70, based on the type of road, like anywhere else!

You 'won' your little argument, pointless as it was, then went against it completely!

 

[90019]

I am sure I've seen roads with 70 signs, and certainly 60, instead of NSL.

Scottish motorways use 70 signs rather than NSL ones. I've seen a few 60 signs as well.

 

[Zoe]

So, you don't need a 70 sign on 'some special roads' as 'there really would be no speed limit at all' as that's nonsense. They'd be covered under the restriction of 60 and 70, based on the type of road, like anywhere else!

No, I'm talking about roads like the A55 in North Wales. This was built as a "special road" not a public right of way. It is not a motorway and there was no defined speed limit for it so a restriction order had to be made as keeping it as a derestricted road would have resulted in no speed limit at all.

 

[jon0844]

From what I've found from a very quick and lazy search, the 'temporary' speed restrictions were brought in in two phases. The first affected the NSL/de-restricted signs, the second affected 'special roads' of which you have mentioned the A55.

So, perhaps you could class that as a different act if you're really desperate to continue arguing semantics, but there is still an imposed limit in any case - hence 70mph signs on the road.

There are in fact other conditions about right of access for the A55 as a 'special road' and I wonder if there are similar conditions that apply to the National Trust roads through the Brecons?

Of course, there are still speed limit signs there too. You can get done for speeding even on private roads and car parks now I believe, if they're accessible from a public highway.

 

[Zoe]

but there is still an imposed limit in any case - hence 70mph signs on the road.

And that's why there is a speed limit as one has been specifically set for that road.

 

[jon0844]

No, it was set for special roads - of which that is one! This was thought of when the temporary restrictions were introduced, even if it wasn't the same day.

Is there a point to playing this game? It doesn't change anything anyway.

Incidentally, I think the main reason we won't see speed limits being axed here will be down to emissions and fuel consumption, not safety or how we think nobody can drive. To be fair, it's harder to pass now than it was - so younger drivers should be better than a lot of the middle/older aged drivers on the road, even if a number of boy racers probably skew the stats.

If Germany ever has to drop the 'no limit' it will almost certainly be down to pressure from the green parties, not safety campaigners who no doubt acknowledge that the autobahns are actually very safe, and more so than the other roads with lower limits.

 

[Zoe]

No, it was set for special roads - of which that is one!

No NSL exists for special roads that are not motorways, they need to have a specific limit so can't be deristricted.

 

[jon0844]

No NSL exists for special roads that are not motorways, they need to have a specific limit so can't be deristricted.

I just explained that. I was pretty much agreeing with you, but I also asked you what the point was.

I cannot keep going around in circles. Where NSL doesn't apply, a separate restriction does - hence signs with RED BORDERS on them. No road has no limit, so I am still as right as I ever was.

You may as well say 'ah, but let's imagine that there was a road with absolutely no limit, then you'd be wrong' and I'd have to say 'but there isn't' and then you say 'ah, but just imagine there was' and we could then see this thread jump to a million pages, or one of us killing themselves (or dying of old age).

I don't intend for any of those scenarios to happen, so I'm going to say no more about speed limits in this country and the specifics of traffic orders and temporary legislation.

 

[Flamingo]

utter crap, the Jaguar E type reached 150 mph

even today few cars can reach that speed

Wrong, the general production E-Type couldn't reach 150mph, Jaguar tinkered with one to get the figures for PR purposes.

http://www.etype.co.uk/

Don't believe everything that a guy in the pub told you.

 

[Sam Bentley]

Wrong, the general production E-Type couldn't reach 150mph, Jaguar tinkered with one to get the figures for PR purposes.

http://www.etype.co.uk/

Don't believe everything that a guy in the pub told you.

so you've admitted one reached that figure

 

[Flamingo]

I can't understand the prejudice that several posters seem to have about cars with automatic gearboxes. What has the transmission got to do with whether anybody is a safe driver?

I'm not aware of insurance companies having increased premiums for drivers with automatic cars, but the do for people who habitually drive at over the speed limit and get caught. So I would guess that their risk assessors figure that is a bigger risk.

(To be honest, a lot of posts on this thread smack of willie-waving :roll
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

so you've admitted one reached that figure

One out of over 70 000.

Unlike you, who said they all could.

 

[Zoe]

Where NSL doesn't apply, a separate restriction does - hence signs with RED BORDERS on them. No road has no limit, so I am still as right as I ever was.

If a special road was deristricted (no speed limit orders for that road) then there really would be no limit. This however would never be allowed so an order is made, in the case of the A55, here is the order: http://wales.gov.uk/docs/det/legislation/100326a55glanconwyen.pdf

 

[jon0844]

OMG - FFS - WTF (etc). But there is a special order for that road, so who cares?

You also ignore everything else that you're asked and just repeat the same thing!

Incidentally, I had no insurance premium hike when I declared 3 penalty points (SP30) and only a very minor increase for the SP60. They really weren't bothered and said it doesn't make much difference.

Drink driving or something to do with careless driving on the other hand...

 

[Zoe]

OMG - FFS - WTF (etc). But there is a special order for that road, so who cares?

The A55 is a special road but there is no Act that specifies a speed limit for a special road that is not a motorway: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1586/made

It is necessary to impose a specific speed limit on the special road because it is not a motorway and the provisions of the Motorways Traffic (Speed Limit) Regulations 1974 (S.I. 1974/502) only apply to special roads which are motorways. The provisions of the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977 as continued indefinitely by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) (Continuation) Order 1978 (S.I. 1978/1548) do not apply to special roads.

As you can see the speed limit had to specifically be imposed for that road.

 

[Striker]

I can't understand the prejudice that several posters seem to have about cars with automatic gearboxes. What has the transmission got to do with whether anybody is a safe driver?

I'm not aware of insurance companies having increased premiums for drivers with automatic cars, but the do for people who habitually drive at over the speed limit and get caught. So I would guess that their risk assessors figure that is a bigger risk.

(To be honest, a lot of posts on this thread smack of willie-waving :roll
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One out of over 70 000.

Unlike you, who said they all could.

Nothing wrong with cars with auto gearboxes. They serve a purpose. What IS wrong is people who don't want to drive manuals and ONLY drive autos because manuals are too difficult. They shouldn't be on the road.

 

[Zoe]

What IS wrong is people who don't want to drive manuals and ONLY drive autos because manuals are too difficult. They shouldn't be on the road.

Care to explain why? If someone can safely drive an automatic, why should they be banned?

 

[Donny Dave]

I've read some of the topic, but with the same people saying the same things over and over, I couldn't be arsed to read everything.

The things I did see repeated again and again were ....

"Speed kills."
"Speeding is dangerous."
"Anyone who speeds deserves to be banned."
"People who speed are a danger to everyone else."

Bollocks to all that ....

I speed at times, so what? Does going 1mph over the limit instantly make me a deranged lunatic who can kill everyone with 1 mile? No, so what about 10mph over the limit? Or even 20 or 30mph over the limit? It's not the speed you go at, it's how you drive, in other words, driving to the conditions.

On motorways, I tend to drive at 80-90mph, depending on the amount of traffic and the prevailing conditions (road surface, weather and road layout). If it's howling it down with rain, or there is a lot of surface water, then yes, I do slow down, and sit at a comfortable 60-65mph (or slower if it's particulary bad).

Until the Daily Mail readers can get a sense of proportion, can I ask that you stay away from the topic please? Having theories about how people should drive is fine, but the theories don't sit well in the real world....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nothing wrong with cars with auto gearboxes. They serve a purpose. What IS wrong is people who don't want to drive manuals and ONLY drive autos because manuals are too difficult. They shouldn't be on the road.

Care to explain why? If someone can safely drive an automatic, why should they be banned?

If they think a manual gearbox is too difficult, it means they can not fully concentrate on driving.

A driving instructor in the first couple of lessons should get any new driver comfortable with a manual box. If they can't manage that, then they should say you shouldn't be driving if you can't handle 1.

PS. Try using a 12 or 16 speed gearbox, complete with splitter and high/low gears. A normal 4 or 5 speed box is childs play after that

 

[Max]

I normally drive about 80, although sometimes creep up to about 85 (maximum).

 

[Zoe]

If they think a manual gearbox is too difficult, it means they can not fully concentrate on driving.

I know people that find manual too difficult but have no difficulty at all fully concentrating on driving in an automatic.

 

[Eclipse]

I think what everyone's saying, regarding the automatics is this...

If driving requires such a high percentage of concentration that you don't have enough left to perform a simple task such as changing gear, then even if you are able to drive an automatic, you still have very little concentration in reserve. Therefore any extra strain on the driver or any distraction could cause dangerous loss of focus. It only takes a split second lapse of focus to cause a potentially fatal accident.

 

[Striker]

I know people that find manual too difficult but have no difficulty at all fully concentrating on driving in an automatic.

Good grief.

If they find changing gears too difficult then how do they cope when they have to deal with something truly challenging such as hitting standing water? Thats the point I'm making. If already they reach their limits upon having to change a gear then they obviously dont have the skill to drive, full stop!

Its these kinds of people who end up having accidents because they can't cope with having to react to something OR they're the ones sat in the middle lane of the motorway doing 50 mph, hunched over the steering wheel looking absolutely petrified!


Whats ridiculous is that you don't even drive yourself!

 

[Zoe]

Whats ridiculous is that you don't even drive yourself!

I don't think I have actually said anywhere if I drive or not but that is not revelant to the question of if people that find driving a manual difficult should be allowed to drive or not. The fact is that I do know people that find driving a manual too difficult but they do hold driving licences for automatics. I actually asked some North Americans earlier if they think people that can't cope with a manual should be banned from driving and the answer I got was a resounding no.

 

[Eclipse]

I love your ability to avoid other people's points and simply repeat your own. :roll:

 

[jon0844]

I'm amazed Zoe stayed up until nearly 4am to continue saying the same things over and over, and then managed to ask some Americans to get more confirmation. This person is certainly dedicated!

Autos do rule in the USA, but people DO actually buy manual cars there. There's nothing wrong with buying an auto for the convenience (it's nice for cruising along a highway for hours on end, or city driving) but the point that is being made time and time again is that if you're UNABLE to use a manual, it doesn't bode well for the rest of your driving skills.

If you simply opt to buy an auto because you want one, fine.

 

[HST Power]

Autos do rule in the USA, but people DO actually buy manual cars there. There's nothing wrong with buying an auto for the convenience (it's nice for cruising along a highway for hours on end, or city driving) but the point that is being made time and time again is that if you're UNABLE to use a manual, it doesn't bode well for the rest of your driving skills.

If you simply opt to buy an auto because you want one, fine.

I agree with this point. It's important that you know how to drive a manual. When I first hired a car, it was an auto, and I'd never driven one before and really wasn't sure about how to go about it. But they are actually really simple and veru useful for things like city driving and cruising.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It's important to have a manual licence because jobs that involve advanced driving (fire, police, ambulance etc) all require their staff to have a full clean manual licence. If advanced drivers need manual that should tell you something about it...

 

[Striker]

I don't think I have actually said anywhere if I drive or not but that is not revelant to the question of if people that find driving a manual difficult should be allowed to drive or not. The fact is that I do know people that find driving a manual too difficult but they do hold driving licences for automatics. I actually asked some North Americans earlier if they think people that can't cope with a manual should be banned from driving and the answer I got was a resounding no.

Really? Oh well, in that case I'm going to have to rethink my whole ethos if the "North Americans" (were there Canadians there too?) don't agree with me.

 

[Oswyntail]

This is utterly ridiculous. There has always been a macho thing about the manual/auto debate that I fail to comprehend. But the gear style you use is utterly irrelevant to whether you are a good driver. That depends on a combination of a) road sense and b) using the machine you are driving properly. In my experience, in th UK "a" is rarer than "b". The part of "road sense" that is often missing lies in making the assumption that, because you feel safe with your actions, everyone else does. This includes speeding (judged by the law of the country), tailgating, lane hogging, sudden lane changes, and just about every bit of bad driving that everyone on here has described. E.g. If I do not know that you can stop on a sixpence when you approach me at speed, then your working on that assumption is unsafe. Simple.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I don't think I have actually said anywhere if I drive or not but that is not revelant to the question of if people that find driving a manual difficult should be allowed to drive or not. The fact is that I do know people that find driving a manual too difficult but they do hold driving licences for automatics. I actually asked some North Americans earlier if they think people that can't cope with a manual should be banned from driving and the answer I got was a resounding no.

Yes we noticed!

What you don't realise is that this whole concentrating on gears point is completely irrelevant. The "mechanics" of driving quickly become something a driver with even slight experience doesn't even think about. I don't think about what gear I need to be in, where the bite of the clutch is etc. They just become subconscious acts, and the concentration is purely on the road ahead.

You seem very bitter towards drivers and extremely overcautious about driving but know a lot about very obscure regulations. Did you fail a driving test or something??

By the way, if you don't already know it (maybe its your source for this stuff) you'd like the site Pathetic Motorways http://www.pathetic.org.uk/ which has a few cases where the roads are neither all purpose roads, nor motorway, meaning they are special roads and therefore if signed, are signed 70. All motorways are special roads, but not all special roads are motorways. The old Severn Bridge is one.

http://www.pathetic.org.uk/features/special_roads/

 

[jon0844]

That will keep Zoe busy for a while!