Chiltern Fare Evasion Letter

[looking4help]

I have just received a letter regarding an incident where I was caught using a Wembley Stadium - Marylebone ticket on my journey from Aylesbury to Marylebone. I have done this on a few occasions over the past couple of years (my trainline account history is 2 years) but not nearly as much as others I have read about on this forum. For the majority of my trainline history I have used valid railcards and valid tickets for my journeys, however there are these few exceptions.

I have contacted a solicitor already before emailing back to Chiltern. I was initially intending to email them and basically tell them that I am extremely sorry, learnt my lesson and to ask what fees I owe.

My solicitor said that this would have been ill advised (they will obviously want me to use them instead of attempt without) but I do not see how it would damage my case simply asking them what they believe I owe.

Very torn on what to do as I would like to at least respond myself in hope that they would just respond with a settlement cost and I can see the back of this with minimal cost.

Many thanks

 

[Haywain]

I have contacted a solicitor already

If you have engaged a solicitor to handle the matter for you, let them handle that matter. They won't thank you, or give you a discount, for corresponding separately with the train company as it will make their task more difficult.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I note that you have blanked out the date and time of the offence- when did it happen? This is important to our advice as there are time limits for bringing a prosecution.

Have you instructed a solicitor, or have you sought advice from them and then baulked at the cost of the solicitor's fees? If there's a solicitor instructed then it's best to leave it to them; you will make the solicitor's task more complex, and more complex means a higher legal fee.

If you haven't instructed a solicitor there is no reason why you can't manage this yourself, although if there is a significant history of short-ticketing then you might find the legal help useful.

 

[Gloster]

Have you actually formally asked the solicitor to deal with the matter or have you merely contacted them to see if they can help, but not instructed them to act?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have just received a letter regarding an incident where I was caught using a Wembley Stadium - Marylebone ticket on my journey from Aylesbury to Marylebone. I have done this on a few occasions over the past couple of years (my trainline account history is 2 years) but not nearly as much as others I have read about on this forum. For the majority of my trainline history I have used valid railcards and valid tickets for my journeys, however there are these few exceptions.

I have contacted a solicitor already before emailing back to Chiltern. I was initially intending to email them and basically tell them that I am extremely sorry, learnt my lesson and to ask what fees I owe.

My solicitor said that this would have been ill advised (they will obviously want me to use them instead of attempt without) but I do not see how it would damage my case simply asking them what they believe I owe.

Very torn on what to do as I would like to at least respond myself in hope that they would just respond with a settlement cost and I can see the back of this with minimal cost.

Many thanks

Welcome to the forum!

The first question is when precisely did the incident take place? I ask because for matters like this to go to court, the matter has to be with the court within six months. So if the incident was any earlier than six months ago (i.e. 12 January 2024 or earlier) then the railway are out of time to prosecute you.

However, assuming that the railway are in time, my thoughts are as follows*

Our experience is that in general the railway responds well to people being open and honest: in general the railway wants to (a) get back the money they're owed (so the dodged train fares, plus the cost of their investigtion) and (b) be reassured that people they have caught won't fare dodge again.

Having said which, historically Chiltern have been quite tough to negotiate with: they have bene known to use a firm called 'Transport Investigations Ltd' (TIL) who tend only to negotiate after two or three exchanges of correspondence.

But this letter appears to be directly from Chiltern rather than from TIL. So my advice is different from your solicitors: rather as you have suggested, i would
- respond to Chiltern, being very apologetic
- confirm how many times you have fare dodged
- ask if they would consider settling out of court.

This isn't a risk free approach: Chiltern could use the information that you have freely given to structure a case to take you to court. But if you don't make full disclosure there is a risk on the other side that Chiltern will decide that there's still a risk of you fare dodging - and will take you to court. On balance, I think the risk of making early disclosure is less than the risk of being seen to be unco-operative.

*Full disclosure - I wrote the bit in italics before I thought about the time limit

 

[looking4help]

I note that you have blanked out the date and time of the offence- when did it happen? This is important to our advice as there are time limits for bringing a prosecution.

Have you instructed a solicitor, or have you sought advice from them and then baulked at the cost of the solicitor's fees? If there's a solicitor instructed then it's best to leave it to them; you will make the solicitor's task more complex, and more complex means a higher legal fee.

If you haven't instructed a solicitor there is no reason why you can't manage this yourself, although if there is a significant history of short-ticketing then you might find the legal help useful.

The incident happened early March this year.

I have had a short consultation with the solicitor (already an expensive start) and they have just sent me forms to fill in. I believe I have no obligation to follow through as he just advised me on what details I need to give him

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2024 ==

Have you actually formally asked the solicitor to deal with the matter or have you merely contacted them to see if they can help, but not instructed them to act?

I have just had a consultation with them, I haven’t sent any further information or agreed to any payments or any further action with them

 

[WesternLancer]

The incident happened early March this year.

I have had a short consultation with the solicitor (already an expensive start) and they have just sent me forms to fill in. I believe I have no obligation to follow through as he just advised me on what details I need to give him

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2024 ==


I have just had a consultation with them, I haven’t sent any further information or agreed to any payments or any further action with them

are you using one of the solicitors that get mentioned on this forum as specialising in rail fare evasion? Previous threads on here where they are involved might give an idea of what people have paid.

I am thinking or either :

Manak Solicitors
or
Penman Sedgwick solicitors

as firms that say they specialise in this area. That is not to say another firm you have contacted can't handle it on your behalf.

 

[looking4help]

are you using one of the solicitors that get mentioned on this forum as specialising in rail fare evasion? Previous threads on here where they are involved might give an idea of what people have paid.

I am thinking or either :

Manak Solicitors
or
Penman Sedgwick solicitors

as firms that say they specialise in this area. That is not to say another firm you have contacted can't handle it on your behalf.

I am with one of those yes however just had a consultation and have not provided further information. I explored these forums more after the consultation and I have been somewhat given some hope to just respond to the letter from Chiltern (as I have not done so yet) to see what their response will be as it seems many people receive their out of court settlement regardless of how heavily they have dodged fares. My case seems to be far less severe than others and cannot see it being any more than £300?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Your case appears to be reasonably straightforward and I would expect you to be able to come to a favourable outcome with Chiltern as long as you co-operate with them. Essentially you have a choice in how to co-operate:

1. Engage the services of a solicitor. This won't be cheap (as you are aware) but they can often 'fast track' your case and do the letter writing for you and present your case to Chiltern.
2. Do it yourself. You will probably get the same outcome but you will have to write the letter yourself and deal with any follow-up. It will probably take a little longer but you won't have the solicitors costs.

There's no right and wrong answer here, it's up to you how to proceed but what you shouldn't do is engage a solicitor and then write to Chiltern yourself!

 

[looking4help]

Welcome to the forum!

Your case appears to be reasonably straightforward and I would expect you to be able to come to a favourable outcome with Chiltern as long as you co-operate with them. Essentially you have a choice in how to co-operate:

1. Engage the services of a solicitor. This won't be cheap (as you are aware) but they can often 'fast track' your case and do the letter writing for you and present your case to Chiltern.
2. Do it yourself. You will probably get the same outcome but you will have to write the letter yourself and deal with any follow-up. It will probably take a little longer but you won't have the solicitors costs.

There's no right and wrong answer here, it's up to you how to proceed but what you shouldn't do is engage a solicitor and then write to Chiltern yourself!

I greatly appreciate your response! So just consulting would not mean I have engaged with them right? The solicitors have a picture of the letter I received but of course I have not given further details nor have I signed anything off with them and I have every right to not go further ahead with the solicitor?

One thing I have noticed which has got me worried a bit, in my letter they ask if I could provide a valid railcard for the time of the incident, which I did have at the time, however it was a short fare of course. Upon looking this up I have seen that my railcard expired last month, I was fully not aware of this and I never received or noticed anything mentioning this. In the past month I have taken 2 trips with a railcard attached due to my trainline app being set like this. I am now worried that I cannot say I have learnt my lesson due to this completely poor timed mess up with no explanation.

I have read in another post on here that they will only look at the incident in question and any time prior as anything after would be considered a separate incident/case? I am a complete idiot for not noticing and I have actually managed to have done this a few years ago too.

 

[Hadders]

I greatly appreciate your response! So just consulting would not mean I have engaged with them right? The solicitors have a picture of the letter I received but of course I have not given further details nor have I signed anything off with them and I have every right to not go further ahead with the solicitor?

I don't know what conversations you've had with your solicitor but whenever I've used a solicitor (tbf for house purchases rather than rail fare evasion) they require a written instruction before undertaking any work.

One thing I have noticed which has got me worried a bit, in my letter they ask if I could provide a valid railcard for the time of the incident, which I did have at the time, however it was a short fare of course. Upon looking this up I have seen that my railcard expired last month, I was fully not aware of this and I never received or noticed anything mentioning this. In the past month I have taken 2 trips with a railcard attached due to my trainline app being set like this. I am now worried that I cannot say I have learnt my lesson due to this completely poor timed mess up with no explanation.

That makes things more problematic, although I would still expect a settlement to be offered.

I have read in another post on here that they will only look at the incident in question and any time prior as anything after would be considered a separate incident/case? I am a complete idiot for not noticing and I have actually managed to have done this a few years ago too.

Chiltern will look into your online ticket purchasing history and could go back up to six years.

 

[looking4help]

don't know what conversations you've had with your solicitor but whenever I've used a solicitor (tbf for house purchases rather than rail fare evasion) they require a written instruction before undertaking any work.

I had a video call consultation and simply explained the incident and the situation as a whole, answering some questions from them. They explained what they are able to do and what they will need from me and that they will send everything over for me to complete. I have not responded or filled anything nor signed anything.

However reading through what they sent after the consultation, the ‘Welcome Letter’ attached reads “Thank you for instructing XXXX”. I believe I have not actually officially instructed for them to take this further and do have the right to not follow through with using them, correct? Obviously I am aware that if Chiltern aim to prosecute and I need to go through the solicitors this will result in complications.

I definitely feel that yesterdays panic and stress has led to me being muddled on what route to take and have only discovered further information after paying for the consultation

*Edit*
I have just found this online on a solicitors web page;
Once a person has decided they need the services of a solicitor, they will need to instruct the solicitor to act on their behalf. In essence this means the solicitor needs to be officially asked to represent the client. At the start of every case, a solicitor should send out what is known as a “client care letter” or “retainer”. This document sets out the contract between the solicitor and the client, defining the work to be done and how this is to be paid for. Once the client has agreed to this contract, usually in writing, the solicitor is said to have been instructed.

This gives me confidence I have not formally instructed the solicitor I have been in contact with

 

[AndroidBango]

I had a video call consultation and simply explained the incident and the situation as a whole, answering some questions from them. They explained what they are able to do and what they will need from me and that they will send everything over for me to complete. I have not responded or filled anything nor signed anything.

However reading through what they sent after the consultation, the ‘Welcome Letter’ attached reads “Thank you for instructing XXXX”. I believe I have not actually officially instructed for them to take this further and do have the right to not follow through with using them, correct? Obviously I am aware that if Chiltern aim to prosecute and I need to go through the solicitors this will result in complications.

I definitely feel that yesterdays panic and stress has led to me being muddled on what route to take and have only discovered further information after paying for the consultation

*Edit*
I have just found this online on a solicitors web page;
Once a person has decided they need the services of a solicitor, they will need to instruct the solicitor to act on their behalf. In essence this means the solicitor needs to be officially asked to represent the client. At the start of every case, a solicitor should send out what is known as a “client care letter” or “retainer”. This document sets out the contract between the solicitor and the client, defining the work to be done and how this is to be paid for. Once the client has agreed to this contract, usually in writing, the solicitor is said to have been instructed.

This gives me confidence I have not formally instructed the solicitor I have been in contact with

Rather than assume, it might be wiser to ask the solicitor - especially as you've been sent a letter saying specifically 'thank you for instructing'.

 

[Haywain]

I am aware that if Chiltern aim to prosecute and I need to go through the solicitors this will result in complications.

Even if Chiltern do proceed to prosecution you do not have to have a solicitor.

 

[island]

Rather than assume, it might be wiser to ask the solicitor - especially as you've been sent a letter saying specifically 'thank you for instructing'.

Indeed.

There may be a 14 day cooling-off period available – I am not certain if this might fall within one of the exemptions.

 

[looking4help]

Indeed.

There may be a 14 day cooling-off period available – I am not certain if this might fall within one of the exemptions.

I appreciate you and Androids responses. I have emailed to find out whether it is considered an instruction yet at this point or if that will be the case once I have chosen the specific route to take with them, sent any information on my journeys and paid and signed.

I am pretty annoyed at myself for not even responding to Chiltern’s letter first but here we are

 

[Gonzoiku]

I appreciate you and Androids responses. I have emailed to find out whether it is considered an instruction yet at this point or if that will be the case once I have chosen the specific route to take with them, sent any information on my journeys and paid and signed.

I am pretty annoyed at myself for not even responding to Chiltern’s letter first but here we are

Solicitors are required to establish, and document, the identity and residential address of every client. This is usually done by taking copies of passport and utility bill. Taking copies means you have to provide the *originals*. If you haven't done that, you have not been accepted as a client, but I can't exclude that they may charge you for some time spent so far. Best to tell them you have decided not to engage

GZ