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The 2024 US presidential election.

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brad465

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Biden just called President Zelenski President Putin when introducing him, think that means its all over for his candidacy now.
Once that debate debacle happened, I was actually hoping another gaffe would come along to "seal the deal" because I believed he'd never recover from the debate. I think this one would more than do it, especially considering the building momentum among Democrats wanting him to step aside.
 
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DarloRich

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Biden just called President Zelenski President Putin when introducing him, think that means its all over for his candidacy now.
The game is up. Get someone else in asap!

Biden is a good man and has the best intentions and interests of his country at heart but he can't go on.
 
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After that monumental gaffe he then called his Vice President “Vice President Trump”….

It’s over. He is embarrassing himself and his country.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Quite agree with these points.
I would say, as a Christian myself, that it is faith (and hence the associated morals) that should influence politics rather than the other way about. This is why, for instance, the British slave trade was abolished: because good, God-fearing Christian men and women believed that slavery was sinful and sought to end it.

At the risk of derailing the thread, I'm not sure that's quite how it worked. For millennia up until the 1700s, God-fearing Christian men and women almost universally believed - based on what was written in the Bible - that slavery was in principle OK. I'd argue that it was to some extent politics and the changing political environment that then during the 1700s an 1800s exposed many Christians to ideas that convinced them that slavery was in fact sinful. You can't really separate faith from politics/culture/etc. because how people interpret their faith inevitably reflects what they've picked up from the world they live in and the ideas that are current in that World. It's therefore inevitable that politics will influence your faith as much as the other way round.
 

Bantamzen

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He needs to step down or be stood down as President as soon as possible, before he really screws things up and causes an international incident! Calling President Zelensky President Putin is not just a gaffe, it a howler, a 30 yard screamer of an own goal. And frankly I'm no longer buying into the narrative that Biden is a good man, just beset with age issues. If he were truly a good man he would recognise the damage he is now doing, and fall on his sword rather than massage his fragile ego.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Now in my opinion, if Biden were to resign in the next few days on ill health grounds and Harris becomes President , she will be able to run as the incumbent. Yes its a brave move but if Democrats want to win it would be not a bad move.

That's actually not a bad idea - although risky. It would start to give Kamala Harris the exposure and publicity that she's largely been denied under Biden - a lack of exposure that I suspect accounts for quite a good part of her unpopularity: She's just so rarely seen. Provided she does well as President and is seen to be competent, that would be a massive boost to her chances in November. The risk is though that, if she handles stuff badly, that could make her even more unpopular.
 

Cowley

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That's actually not a bad idea - although risky. It would start to give Kamala Harris the exposure and publicity that she's largely been denied under Biden - a lack of exposure that I suspect accounts for quite a good part of her unpopularity: She's just so rarely seen. Provided she does well as President and is seen to be competent, that would be a massive boost to her chances in November. The risk is though that, if she handles stuff badly, that could make her even more unpopular.

There’s a lot of risks involved with whatever choice they take at this point, but the greatest risk is definitely keeping Biden in place and watching him race towards the inevitable cliff edge. I’ve got a feeling that we’ll see some proper movement over the next week now though hopefully.

A good way of selling him stepping down is surely to point out to the American electorate that the Dems are still able to take a decision like this when they have someone unsuitable in charge, rather than the complete cowardice of many Republicans who despise Trump but are too scared to speak out?
 

Gloster

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I have no great knowledge of how Joe Public thinks in the US, but I would expect that calling VP Harris ‘Trump’ is the clip that will be pushed out again and again. The other gaffes are about foreign affairs and Joe P. is not interested in them, but this is domestic and he will know the difference.
 

nlogax

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Last night proved there's no way Biden can stay on to contest this election but there's little hope of a replacement candidate winning this either. The more he hangs on the more he damages what's left of the Democrats' remaining chances. This has all been left far too late. Harris (or Newsom etc etc) would have to produce an absolutely knock-out performance on a TV debate with Trump to retain even a glimmer of hope that he's kept from returning to office.

What a miserable state of affairs for American democracy. Strap yourself in for the next four and a half years. It's going to be rocky.
 

DarloRich

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And frankly I'm no longer buying into the narrative that Biden is a good man,
I think you are being unfair. He is a good man, he wants the best for his country and is rightly absolutely terrified of what a second Trump presidency will mean for the USA and the western liberal alliance.

I can well imagine it must be hard to admit that you are getting old, even if you are not loosing your marbles aging has an effect and to give up something you have striven for your entire life must be heart-breaking. That said it is over. He cant continue. The media and public have turned.

Last night proved there's no way Biden can stay on to contest this election but there's little hope of a replacement candidate winning this either. The more he hangs on the more he damages what's left of the Democrats' remaining chances. This has all been left far too late.
There is still time but things have been made harder by Biden not standing down. Even if he isn't losing his faculties it LOOKS like he is and that is enough to kill his challenge.

Every Trump advert will be one of these Biden slip ups, every message will be about how Biden has lost it. It is over.
 

Cloud Strife

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I agree, it's over. He could have redeemed himself, but he's just making mistake after mistake and it's just not good enough in this high pressure environment.

but there's little hope of a replacement candidate winning this either

I wouldn't say there's little hope. If the Democrats can find and agree on someone who looks great in their 40s, who will take the fight straight to Trump and who will ruthlessly attack his record on what matters.

Trump can be defeated, but it needs a Bill Clinton style candidate who can appeal to suburban Georgia as well as blue collar Pennsylvania. Biden was that man four years ago, and they need the same now.
 

Bantamzen

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I think you are being unfair. He is a good man, he wants the best for his country and is rightly absolutely terrified of what a second Trump presidency will mean for the USA and the western liberal alliance.

I can well imagine it must be hard to admit that you are getting old, even if you are not loosing your marbles aging has an effect and to give up something you have striven for your entire life must be heart-breaking. That said it is over. He cant continue. The media and public have turned.
Maybe he is, but frankly he shouldn't be holding on. This time it's been getting name mixed up, but do we really want the leader of one of the post powerful, and not to mention nuclear countries in the world be making decisions when his brain is misfiring? Time for him to pick himself a nice rocking chair, and sit back and enjoy retirement.
 

gg1

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I agree - however try to put yourself in his place. Would you easily give it up? I wouldn't!
Yes.

He has less than 6 months of his term to run, if he stubbornly insists on holding on rather than standing aside now he'll be remembered as the man who handed the presidency to Trump. Far better for his legacy if he stands aside now.
 

AlterEgo

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The problem is the Dems do not have a credible nominee and have memed themselves into this corner by choosing a VP who is deeply unpleasant and unpopular. They chose her as VP because she is a woman, and black. They can’t well overlook her as a successor.
 

GRALISTAIR

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DarloRich

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Actually I would!
I don't believe you!

He has less than 6 months of his term to run, if he stubbornly insists on holding on rather than standing aside now he'll be remembered as the man who handed the presidency to Trump. Far better for his legacy if he stands aside now.
All that is true but is not the question. The question is whether he (or you) would give up the candidacy for the forthcoming election. Biden isn't giving up the presidency before the election. he may only serve one term but he isn't going to retire today.

The question is whether he is the candidate for the election.

( if a delegation of the "grey suits" came and set out thier negative views, said the game was up, that the polls and the media were so negative that I couldn't win, that they wouldn't support me AND that in doing so I would hand the election to Trump that would be that - I wouldn't just give up because I was getting old! You would be dragging me out!)


They can’t well overlook her as a successor.
from what I understand the democrats COULD go to the convention and fight it out for the candidacy.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I have just seen an interesting take from Australian news media. Joe Biden was persuaded not to run in 2016 to make way for Hilary Clinton. She of course lost. I did it your way once and we lost So this time I am going to do it my way and run despite what you are all saying.
 

AlterEgo

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from what I understand the democrats COULD go to the convention and fight it out for the candidacy.
Oh they can, but they’d be overlooking a black woman and the optics of that on the Dem left aren’t great either.
 

joieman

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And of course Trump famously wouldn’t give it up easily either! Power is addictive.
As far as I know, Trump has never talked about trying to win three terms in office. Obama did, though:
Claim:
Former U.S. President Barack Obama once spoke of the idea of a third term in the White House and talked about delivering lines to a stand-in who would be wearing an earpiece.
Rating:
Correct Attribution

Context
Obama jokingly delivered this answer during an interview with Stephen Colbert on "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert," in which the former commander-in-chief had laughed and smiled prior to and during his remarks.

In the latter days of U.S. President Donald Trump's term in the White House, his predecessor – former U.S. President Barack Obama – sat down with talk show host Stephen Colbert for an extended interview to be aired on "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert."

At the beginning of the November 2020 interview, Colbert posed a question to Obama, asking, "Did you ever look at something going on in the news and say, 'You know what this situation needs? A little Barack Obama.'"

In response, Obama laughed, then smiled while delivering an answer about the idea of "third term" and a "stand-in" who could be wearing an "earpiece."

The Transcript
The full question and answer went as follows:

COLBERT: On behalf of a lot of Americans, I think I can say with confidence that we missed you these last four years.

OBAMA: Thank you.

COLBERT: Did you miss you? Did you ever look at something going on in the news and say, "You know what this situation needs? A little Barack Obama."

(Obama laughs)

OBAMA: I said this before. People would ask me, "Knowing what you know now, do you wish you had a third term?" And I used to say, "You know what? If I could make an arrangement where I had a stand-in, a front man or front woman, and they had an earpiece in and I was just in my basement in my sweats looking through the stuff, and then I could sort of deliver the lines, but somebody else was doing all the talking and ceremony, I'd be fine with that. Because I found the work fascinating. I mean, I write about the... even on my worst days, I found puzzling out, you know, these big, complicated, difficult issues, especially if you were working with some great people, to be professionally really satisfying. But I do not miss having to wear a tie every day.

These remarks appeared in a video on the official YouTube channel for "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert," as well as in later uploads elsewhere on YouTube, TikTok, Truth Social, Facebook, and other social media and video platforms.

The Video
As can be witnessed in social media posts and video comments, many of the mentions of Obama's answer about a third term came with a claim that promoted the evidence-free idea, whether the users were joking or not, that said Obama was secretly spending his days "pulling the strings" of a "puppet" – a reference to U.S. President Joe Biden – to guide his own former vice president through his time in the White House.

'I Think if I Ran, I Could Win'
Separate from the remark made in the Colbert interview, Obama also at least one other time previously said he believed he could win again if the U.S. Constitution, which limits presidents to two terms, allowed him to run for a third term.

Obama's "I think if I ran, I could win" remark was delivered in somewhat of a joking manner in front of the African Union in Ethiopia on July 28, 2015.

According to Obama's speech, the purpose of his having mentioned the possibility of a third term was to try to drive a point home about the dangers of leaders staying in office for too long.
For this reason, as well as others, some believe that the Biden administration is merely an extension of the Obama administration:
It is no coincidence that both Joe Biden and Barack Obama began their presidencies by unceremoniously throwing the same bust of Winston Churchill out of the Oval Office. Obama hated Churchill’s role as Prime Minister in responding firmly to the exceedingly violent Mau Mau uprising in colonial Kenya in the 1950s. Biden, for decades a supporter of Irish nationalism, also abhors Britain’s past, and clearly views Churchill as the embodiment of what the woke Left like to call “British imperialism.”

Significantly, both Obama and Biden advanced presidencies that have been the antithesis of practically everything Churchill stood for as Britain’s great wartime savior. They are two of the weakest leaders in American history, who have done more to promote America’s decline than any president in the modern era, including Jimmy Carter. They clearly could not stand the sight of Churchill watching over them, as they did all they could to tear apart the U.S./U.K. Special Relationship and drag down the world’s superpower.

In so many respects the Biden presidency has been Obama’s de facto third term. As USA Today reported back in June 2021, a staggering three quarters of top aides to Joe Biden appointed in the early months of his presidency had served in the Obama administration. Barack Obama has loomed over the Biden White House to an extent that no previous ex-President has before, even overshadowing the present incumbent at a White House reception in April last year, where Biden was pictured wandering around seemingly lost and largely ignored while his predecessor was mobbed by an adoring crowd of supporters.

It is hard to imagine a U.S. presidency that could be more weak-kneed, ineffective, and destructive than the one led by Barack Obama. But this is the harsh reality with Joe Biden in power. Biden is Obama 2.0 with the same broken left-wing policies, an incredibly dangerous addiction to spending taxpayers’ money and generating government debt (now standing at an astonishing $32.7 trillion), and a willingness to grovel to America’s enemies and throw its allies under the bus.

The Obama era was a tragedy for the United States on the international stage, with the president of the most powerful nation in the world embarking on an embarrassing apology tour, spending much of his time condemning the history of his own country to foreign audiences from Paris to Cairo, while strengthening the hand of America’s adversaries. Biden has simply doubled down on the Obama approach by kowtowing to Communist China, overseeing the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, and failing to do anything at all to prevent Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Meanwhile, America’s friends have been treated with barely disguised disdain and contempt from Israel to the UK. Strikingly, Obama and Biden have headed outright anti-British Presidencies that have treated America’s closest partner with a complete lack of respect. Barack Obama famously intervened ahead of the 2016 Brexit referendum, warning the British people they would be at “the back of the queue” if they dared to vote to leave the European Union. In a similar vein, Brexit-hating Joe Biden issued menacing threats to sink a U.S./U.K. trade deal if London did not cooperate with Washington over the issue of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

In the wake of the U.S. president’s incessant knifing of Britain in the back, I have not heard a single positive word said about Joe Biden from any British Member of Parliament I have spoken to. Biden is widely viewed by America’s British allies as hugely incompetent, rude, hostile, and frankly out of his mind. The increasingly common view of Joe Biden in London and many European capitals is that he is an embarrassing buffoon who should be nowhere near the White House.

At home and abroad the outlook for the world’s superpower is grim. Having lived in Washington through all the years of the Obama and Biden administrations, I can attest that the overwhelming sense of direction is the same. As the latest RealClear Politics polling average shows, a significant majority of Americans today believe the U.S. is heading in the wrong direction. It was the same throughout much of the Obama presidency. Americans are disillusioned with the Obama/Biden approach. Their prosperity is declining, their taxes are rising, their debt is forever growing, and economic freedom is rapidly diminishing.

There is a real sense of malaise across Biden’s America, clearly reflected in the soaring crime, homelessness and lawlessness evident in every major city run by the Left, from Los Angeles and San Francisco to Chicago and Philadelphia. The second Obama era with Joe Biden as President has been a complete disaster.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden share the same big government elitist mindset, with a sneering disregard for the plight of ordinary Americans. They are two of the most arrogant and out-of-touch world leaders of the modern era. Their shameful joint legacy has been a testament to failure, despair and American ruin.
On top of that, Obama became the first former President to continue living in Washington DC since Woodrow Wilson:
US President Barack Obama will be moving out of the White House in 2017, but he will not be moving far.

Mr Obama said on Thursday the family would stay in Washington while his 14-year-old daughter, Sasha, finishes her education at the elite academy, Sidwell Friends.

"Transferring someone in the middle of high school. Tough," he said to an audience question in Wisconsin.

It is not common for presidents to stay in the capital after they leave office.

Woodrow Wilson, who served as president from 1913 to 1921, was the last.

However, the Obama family also plans to spend time in Chicago, where the family has a home and First Lady Michelle Obama has family.

Mr Obama is also establishing his presidential library in Chicago.
 
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nw1

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I agree, it's over. He could have redeemed himself, but he's just making mistake after mistake and it's just not good enough in this high pressure environment.



I wouldn't say there's little hope. If the Democrats can find and agree on someone who looks great in their 40s, who will take the fight straight to Trump and who will ruthlessly attack his record on what matters.
I don't think they have to be in their 40s! That is very, very young.

Plenty of suitable candidates older than that - Harris and Newsom, for starters. Arbitrarily insisting on someone in their 40s would be completely shooting themselves in the foot, not to mention ageist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Last night proved there's no way Biden can stay on to contest this election but there's little hope of a replacement candidate winning this either. The more he hangs on the more he damages what's left of the Democrats' remaining chances. This has all been left far too late. Harris (or Newsom etc etc) would have to produce an absolutely knock-out performance on a TV debate with Trump to retain even a glimmer of hope that he's kept from returning to office.

What a miserable state of affairs for American democracy. Strap yourself in for the next four and a half years. It's going to be rocky.

I would disagree there. I continue to maintain that Trump is an unstable, unhinged, dangerous, authoritarian, far-right extremist who has blatantly used hate speech against political opponents.

That is not going to sit well with Mr and Ms Average, surely, even if he does try to bribe them with tax cuts. Surely Mr and Ms Average might be just a little concerned if their country's appalling public image under Trump might lead to economic side-effects as other countries start dealing with the USA with increased suspicion and an increasingly long bargepole.

Surely any credible, less-than-dire Dem candidate who is mentally up to the job (i.e. sadly not Biden) would wipe the floor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And quite a few people believe that the Biden administration is merely an extension of the Obama administration:

That's just more evidence that the Telegraph is an ideological mouthpiece dressed up as a serious "newspaper".

Dislike of Brexit equals "hatred" of Britain. What a load of tripe.
 
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Bantamzen

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I don't believe you!
You don't have to, but not everyone would cling to the job when they could see themselves creating massive problems. I would certainly say "you know what, someone else needs to take over". Its called taking responsibility, good leaders know when to do so. I realise this isn't a popular trait in an ever more cynical world where everybody believes their own hype, but if Biden wants to be the good guy then it's time to make his farewell speech.

I would disagree there. I continue to maintain that Trump is an unstable, unhinged, dangerous, authoritarian, far-right extremist who has blatantly used hate speech against political opponents.
There is no doubting this. The fact that the Republicans can't seem to break their Trump addiction makes me think he is holding them to ransom.

That is not going to sit well with Mr and Ms Average, surely, even if he does try to bribe them with tax cuts. Surely Mr and Ms Average might be just a little concerned if their country's appalling public image under Trump might lead to economic side-effects as other countries start dealing with the USA with increased suspicion and an increasingly long bargepole.

Surely any credible, less-than-dire Dem candidate who is mentally up to the job (i.e. sadly not Biden) would wipe the floor.
Money is everything for a lot of people in the US, you know "The American Dream". I suspect many would hope to take the money and disappear behind their white fences to sit out the next 4 years. What the Democrats need is someone to expose the truth on the debating floor, and show Americans that they will not be given more money for Trumpism, and that Trump is there for one reason only. To line his pockets.
 

gg1

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I don't believe you!

All that is true but is not the question. The question is whether he (or you) would give up the candidacy for the forthcoming election. Biden isn't giving up the presidency before the election. he may only serve one term but he isn't going to retire today.

The question is whether he is the candidate for the election.

( if a delegation of the "grey suits" came and set out thier negative views, said the game was up, that the polls and the media were so negative that I couldn't win, that they wouldn't support me AND that in doing so I would hand the election to Trump that would be that - I wouldn't just give up because I was getting old! You would be dragging me out!)
That would be an even more solid yes. If he stands he will lose, it's as simple of that, his performance yesterday proved that the disastrous Trump debate wasn't an unlucky fluke. If he genuinely can't see that he's deluding himself. Not standing for re-election at all is preferable to standing and losing.
 

joieman

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That's just more evidence that the Telegraph is an ideological mouthpiece dressed up as a serious "newspaper".

Dislike of Brexit equals "hatred" of Britain. What a load of tripe.
"Hatred of Britain" wasn't the point I was trying to make.
And if it's about ideological mouthpieces, then vendors like the BBC and the Guardian are just as bad in my opinion (and I used a BBC article as one of my "exhibits").
Money is everything for a lot of people in the US, you know "The American Dream". I suspect many would hope to take the money and disappear behind their white fences to sit out the next 4 years. What the Democrats need is someone to expose the truth on the debating floor, and show Americans that they will not be given more money for Trumpism, and that Trump is there for one reason only. To line his pockets.
I would think that isn't the case with Trump. (Cue to me linking to another article from the BBC, a source which I admittedly avoid these days: )
 

Bantamzen

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I would think that isn't the case with Trump. (Cue to me linking to another article from the BBC, a source which I admittedly avoid these days: )
You've got to be kidding right? Trump is one of the main characters on the American gravy train. Don't let him not taking a wage fool you, he's been chasing a much bigger prize than the $400K pa wage...
 

joieman

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You've got to be kidding right? Trump is one of the main characters on the American gravy train. Don't let him not taking a wage fool you, he's been chasing a much bigger prize than the $400K pa wage...
Well, I don't think any American president in recent history from either party was particularly poor before taking office or after leaving office, am I right?
 
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