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Er, go in to one and present a cheque? I must have done it hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past. Seriously, nobody's saying there should be no technology, just that we should not be totally reliant upon it all the time, and there should always be a back-up, like keeping a torch or candles at home when your electricity's down.
Er, go in to one and present a cheque? I must have done it hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past. Seriously, nobody's saying there should be no technology, just that we should not be totally reliant upon it all the time, and there should always be a back-up, like keeping a torch or candles at home when your electricity's down.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to see cash to completely but it does make me laugh when people think we can just revert to cash as though we’re in the 1950s. We can’t.
Same with cheques - you might have a cheque book (as do I buy I’ve not used it since 2011) but I’ll bet that virtually no-one under the age of 45 will have one.
Shops are totally reliant on tech for their systems. If the tech goes down nothing’s getting ordered. Just look at what happened to KFC a few years ago…
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to see cash to completely but it does make me laugh when people think we can just revert to cash as though we’re in the 1950s. We can’t.
Same with cheques - you might have a cheque book (as do I buy I’ve not used it since 2011) but I’ll bet that virtually no-one under the age of 45 will have one.
Shops are totally reliant on tech for their systems. If the tech goes down nothing’s getting ordered. Just look at what happened to KFC a few years ago…
I don't really disagree with any of that, but I get the impression the U.K. has become much more complacent than any other country about our reliance on technology, some of which have major drawbacks in their efficacy. We don't have enough clear-headed sceptics in places like the Post Office; for instance, to query the supposed wonderful advantages that will accrue when a billions cost new system is brought into use.
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One reason I think we've seen a significant drop in muggings is there's an assumption these days that people aren't going to be carrying large sums of cash. If we all started to use cash again, I am sure criminals would adjust accordingly.
Muggings in London's West End have tripled in the last three years. Phone and watch theft from the person, with violence meting any resistance, is rife in many places. Mugging grannies for cash might have declined, but that was almost always druggie scumbags.
The phone is useless without the account passcode. So mugging them is down slightly, but more groups are threatening violence and kidnap to get the passcode and then using that to gain access to email and/or banking which is more valuable than the phone.
Er, go in to one and present a cheque? I must have done it hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past. Seriously, nobody's saying there should be no technology, just that we should not be totally reliant upon it all the time, and there should always be a back-up, like keeping a torch or candles at home when your electricity's down.
Genuine question, can you go into a bank and cash a cheque now given a cheque guarantee card doesn't exist anymore? I haven't 'cashed a cheque' in decades and the only cash I carry is the one pound coin I need for the locker at the swimming baths.
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I’ve no idea, but even if you could the bank would need to record the transaction on their ‘tech’.
So if the ‘tech’ isn’t working you’d not get any cash. Also, I doubt most bank branches hold anywhere near the value of cash people think they do, so it wouldn’t take long before bank started running out of cash!
52% of the mobile market share in the UK is consisting of iPhones, so excluding people having a used/older iPhone, I would say that 35-40% of the mobile-holding UK population has a £800+ phone.
Muggings in London's West End have tripled in the last three years. Phone and watch theft from the person, with violence meting any resistance, is rife in many places. Mugging grannies for cash might have declined, but that was almost always druggie scumbags.
Watch thefts are pretty well targeted. It's precisely because people likely don't have anything of value in their pocket that the traditional mugging (often with a knife) has declined. Phone thieves are more likely on an illegal electric moped and not wanting to hang around.
It obviously helps that a) you can so easily get hold of an illegal bike, or make your own b) people are in their own world when on their mobiles walking along.
I have no doubt that if it was known most people carry cash, which perhaps they will if card payments fail more often than once in a blue moon, we might see those robberies go up.
In France, where checks are still widely used, some banks will have dedicated automatic booths or to an ATM (physical check, you can't do mobile deposit with only a scan like in the US). Online banks will just have you send it by mail.
I don't think you can just hand it to a teller without incurring a fee nowadays
And it's deposited a few days later on your account
52% of the mobile market share in the UK is consisting of iPhones, so excluding people having a used/older iPhone, I would say that 35-40% of the mobile-holding UK population has a £800+ phone.
I don't really disagree with any of that, but I get the impression the U.K. has become much more complacent than any other country about our reliance on technology, some of which have major drawbacks in their efficacy. We don't have enough clear-headed sceptics in places like the Post Office; for instance, to query the supposed wonderful advantages that will accrue when a billions cost new system is brought into use.
Part of the problem is the reliance on technology owned and operated by other organisations. Even the most diligently managed in-house IT might, unavoidably, be reliant on a third party to deliver a particular service.
The phone is useless without the account passcode. So mugging them is down slightly, but more groups are threatening violence and kidnap to get the passcode and then using that to gain access to email and/or banking which is more valuable than the phone.
Part of the problem is the reliance on technology owned and operated by other organisations. Even the most diligently managed in-house IT might, unavoidably, be reliant on a third party to deliver a particular service.
I’ve no idea, but even if you could the bank would need to record the transaction on their ‘tech’.
So if the ‘tech’ isn’t working you’d not get any cash. Also, I doubt most bank branches hold anywhere near the value of cash people think they do, so it wouldn’t take long before bank started running out of cash!
Removing low value coins doesn't really solve that much.
I'm really not convinced its worth the hastle of changing systems, given that cash transactions are already collapsing.
Better to keep the penny around because card transactions are dominant and have no change constraints.
But I can't see many legitimate reasons for carrying giant wads of banknotes in the modern era.
Do people really need to carry hundreds of pounds in cash any more?
52% of the mobile market share in the UK is consisting of iPhones, so excluding people having a used/older iPhone, I would say that 35-40% of the mobile-holding UK population has a £800+ phone.
I think the question is not about cash disappearing but how long will will this antique system of plastic cards and/mobile phones that run out of battery or lose the signal or cannot connect to the app last.
in 20 years time technology will have advanced beyond our imaginations, AI will rule and facial and voice recognition will be the norm.
just smile and say hi I’m going to Venus and and a few quid will vanish from your lifetime account.
if you don’t believe me then remember that 20 years ago windows 95 was the common operating system and it took ten minutes to download a black and white photo via your dial up modem
The main issue with cashless is the fees right now. Most small business (like barbers...) that don't accept cards because of that
Most card terminals work using a subscription fee for the equipment + 2-3% + a token fee, on a 20-30 quid, could amount quite fast over a year
The rise of terminals like Sumup (which only has a 1.69% fee and you own the terminal in the UK) and all will push banks and credit card brands out to lower the fees
Also, I doubt most bank branches hold anywhere near the value of cash people think they do, so it wouldn’t take long before bank started running out of cash!
A friend went into a bank branch a few weeks ago and asked for 200k Euro in cash. They took one look at him and told him that there was no way that they'd be able to arrange it in less than 48 hours. After some discussion and phone calls, it turned out that the money would have to be ordered especially from the National Bank of Poland, because only one branch in Warsaw kept that kind of cash on hand and they didn't have it.
I asked him why on earth he needed so much in cash, and it turned out that he was buying a property from a particular paranoid person who wanted to be paid at the public notary in cash. As for why the sale was in Euro, he shrugged and said that it wasn't his business as to why they wanted Euro and not zloty.
Economy of scale would say that fees should go down to a point when you encounter diminushing returns, but the regulatory framework is also very much a factor in those things.
They will never be 0 because there is quite a few middlemen (the card brand, the payment processor, the bank) who need their cut.
What we could see is the end of subscription-based card terminals. You can get the smartphone-operated ones for €50 and the standalone ones for €200.
Which doesn't sound bad when you consider most traditional card machines will need a standalone 3G/4G connection (and so a plan) + renting the terminal (for €30-40/month).
Quite a few small businesses over where I leave exclusively use the Sumup (and other) flat fee-owning terminals.
They may be more expensive for larger business, but for small businesses they make a lot more sense since the median basket is lower.
Removing low value coins doesn't really solve that much.
I'm really not convinced its worth the hastle of changing systems, given that cash transactions are already collapsing.
Better to keep the penny around because card transactions are dominant and have no change constraints.
But I can't see many legitimate reasons for carrying giant wads of banknotes in the modern era.
Do people really need to carry hundreds of pounds in cash any more?
The low value coins were removed in other countries as the cost to mint them and of the metal was less than the value of the coin.
I doubt it would be a significant issue for stores to alter their till system to round totals when paying to cash to the nearest 5p. The overall cost of handling fewer low value coins will save banks and stores money.
I doubt this will be a significant saving for the Mint given that mint figures for the 1p and 2p are already very small.
In 2022 they minted only 30 million pennies and no 2p pieces were minted at all.
On average it seems about ~20 million 2 pieces are minted each yerar over the past several years, but this number is falling. In 2010 it was over 100 million per year.
The hastle involved in attempting to remove pennies from circulation would vastly outstrip the savings from ceasing to mint them, given how small demand already is.
I doubt it would be a significant issue for stores to alter their till system to round totals when paying to cash to the nearest 5p. The overall cost of handling fewer low value coins will save banks and stores money.
If businesses are going to go through the hastle of modifications to their systems, many of which are legacy systems with limited support, they are far more likely to simply not bother and withdraw cash sales entirely.
A lot of the costs of handling cash are largely similar no matter how many coins you have to take to the bank each trip. The savings from having count marginally fewer coins will be very small - most establishments will only hold small numbers of low value coins already.
I doubt it would be a significant issue for stores to alter their till system to round totals when paying to cash to the nearest 5p. The overall cost of handling fewer low value coins will save banks and stores money.
Yes - I still take my money out of the bank this way... every time.
If, however, you mean in terms of cashing a cheque payable to you from another person, I'm not sure as I've never done that; I only ever pay any cheques that I do get into my account.
If we went completely cashless it would mean providing young children who are old enough to shop for themselves a secure debit card; presumably one that could be loaded up to a limit so (a) the kids can't overspend and (b) protected if lost or stolen. What we would lose id the child putting "real" money in a jar and watching it grow!!
Do such cards exist today?
Just noted above r/e taxi drivers, mine accept cards but there is zero signal outside my house, so we either use cash or park some distance away for that signal. Infuriating!!
go henry https://www.gohenry.com/uk/despicableme/ is one of many such products.
You will find those shouting the loudest that "cash is king" and using those who are disabled or elderly as the reason are mostly business owners who like cash not going through the books.
Cash has been supplanted by more convenient ways of paying and as time has gone one and the tech to take card payments has become cheaper, it makes sense to those businesses who are not trying to dodge tax.
I help design software used by a lot of elderly people - the patronising way its assumed they cant manage tech is insulting.
I spend time just watching the users and documenting the customer journey to find any pain points. Then we try and make it better.
There will always be people who struggle. But they do so with cash. Those who want to keep it usually have an agenda. Or are just a conspiracy nut.
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“Which year will the UK go cashless”…..after the reported problems this morning with various retailers including Sainsburys, Asda and McDonalds apparently being unable to accept card payments, hopefully never is the answer. Some media overreacting as usual, describing shoppers as fuming and calling Sainsburys a joke or vile for not being quick enough to warn people that they are/were having issues with card payments. Fact is we are becoming way too dependant and over reliant on technology and are neglecting to have sufficient backup plans in place when things start going wrong.
This is not the gotcha you think it is..
You forget that they cant accept cash either when the systems go down. The managers wont take the risk of money going missing and it messes up stock levels as most tills are tied to the stock and ordering systems.
(I used to work as a manager at McDs before we took cards . If the till system goes down you would close.)
People moan about things which, in the past they would not have done more than moved on with thier lives. This is a symptom of people being used to instant gratification and increases in uptime of tech.
It will be moaning to see if they get a voucher.
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Er, go in to one and present a cheque? I must have done it hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past. Seriously, nobody's saying there should be no technology, just that we should not be totally reliant upon it all the time, and there should always be a back-up, like keeping a torch or candles at home when your electricity's down.
When was the last time the whole countries banking system was down for days?
You are making a rather strange argument as while there may be an outage of a few hours for one or two places which means you come back later. If mastercard or visa goes down. I am not aware of any long term outage.
There is a lot of people who loose a lot of money when there is an outage and people work hard to keep it to a minimum.
Your argument means we should have 2 of every store and device not too far from each other. Just in case the 1st one gets flooded or set on fire.
How many phones do you have? Do you have a spare car sitting waiting for the main one to break?
Of course you don't. But you do realise and don't think the sky is falling if you get a puncture .
Yes - I still take my money out of the bank this way... every time.
If, however, you mean in terms of cashing a cheque payable to you from another person, I'm not sure as I've never done that; I only ever pay any cheques that I do get into my account.
Genuine questions : why given you will have walked past at least one cash machine to do so and would normally be a far quicker transaction; and secondly what is the process now given cheque guarantee cards don't exist?
A friend went into a bank branch a few weeks ago and asked for 200k Euro in cash. They took one look at him and told him that there was no way that they'd be able to arrange it in less than 48 hours. After some discussion and phone calls, it turned out that the money would have to be ordered especially from the National Bank of Poland, because only one branch in Warsaw kept that kind of cash on hand and they didn't have it.
I asked him why on earth he needed so much in cash, and it turned out that he was buying a property from a particular paranoid person who wanted to be paid at the public notary in cash. As for why the sale was in Euro, he shrugged and said that it wasn't his business as to why they wanted Euro and not zloty.
I doubt banks in Czechia or Hungary or Romania are able to rustle up 200k euros in cash on the spot either. If he had wanted to withdraw 1 million zloty in cash, would that have posed such a big problem?
If this was in Warsaw, I am reasonably sure that if he had 1 million zloty in cash, he could have obtained 200k euros on the same day by visiting several moneychangers, and at a comparable or better rate than exchanging at the bank (but perhaps he already had euros in a euro account).
If anyone wants some dry reading to do, the central banks of Denmark and Sweden have recently published some analysis on the future role of cash in a country where cash usage is very low, and they have considered emergency situations such as blackouts.
Cash is needed in Denmark – and it will also be needed in the future. Denmark will have new banknotes, probably from 2028-2029, and the 1000-krone banknote from the current series and a number of older banknotes will no longer be legal tender after 31 May 2025.
I have to confess, yesterday I drove into a car park, went to the machine, pressed the screen to choose English, stuck my coin in the slot and magically my ticket printed. 15 seconds it took, much to the amazement of the technically savvy who were still waving bits of plastic around waiting for those magic words. “ authorising, please wait”.
I have to confess, yesterday I drove into a car park, went to the machine, pressed the screen to choose English, stuck my coin in the slot and magically my ticket printed. 15 seconds it took, much to the amazement of the technically savvy who were still waving bits of plastic around waiting for those magic words. “ authorising, please wait”.
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Seriously, nobody's saying there should be no technology, just that we should not be totally reliant upon it all the time, and there should always be a back-up, like keeping a torch or candles at home when your electricity's down.
www.riksbank.se
